 Poster: A snowHead
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@Ray Zorro, the only glacier I skied was at Tux. When I was in Tignes I didn't ski on the Grand Motte, and Les Arcs is not a glacier resort with the exception of about 150m of one run. Yes, I've chosen to ski at resorts with reasonably high altitude terrain, which is what I would always recommend for early and late season skiing.
I have never denied it is a bad start to the season. I have simply reported that it is not catastrophic in some resorts, as some reports would have you believe. Sure, I've had friends in Les Gets who didn't ski, friends in Italy who had essentially no snow, instructors mates in the PDS who are not getting work, and no doubt many people will have had very disappointing experiences especially New Year week (which I'm not skiing). However, if you look around the snow reports section you will also see plenty of people saying it's not as bad as they feared, they're having a great time, the weather is lovely and that's contributing to a great ski holiday, it's better than last Christmas, etc, etc, etc. The stupid subject line to this thread says that snow is finally coming. That might be true for some resorts, but it's not true for all resorts. Here's 95 photos which prove that statement to be factually incorrect.
Perhaps you forget the very large snowstorm which hit the northern (especially western?) Alps at the end of November, followed by a few very cold days? For some resorts that set up the opening week of the season very well. The piste skiing in Tignes in the first week of December was very good, and excellent in many parts of the resort. A comment from a mutual friend on my FB feed was that he'd had the best day's skiing of his life. That, plus the nice weather and the opportunity to catch up with a number of friends at the start of the season, made for some genuinely excellent skiing. Hintertux was the same, with perhaps even better piste conditions above Tuxerferner Haus. The week before Christmas in Les Arcs was pretty good, if you stayed above 1900m, with firm, grippy pistes and even people taking advantage of some thin off-piste snow. Conditions for Christmas Week continued to get worse with the dry and warm conditions, but ameliorated by fewer guests than I would expect to see for that week. In all the posts I have made I have tried to be truthful about the conditions as I find them, without speculation and generalisation about resorts I've not skied. I have said the snowpack is thin, I have said that conditions are and will continue to deteriorate, I have said that more snow is needed, I have said that the quality of the snow is transforming from grippy to polished, I have said that stones and earth are coming through, I have reported on the efforts the resort I'm in are making to keep pistes skiable, I've said that the altitude of the skiable pistes is rising. I don't see how you can accuse my of denying the bad conditions that many resorts are suffering as I haven't made any comments about other resorts; I've not made any sweeping generalisations. As I always try to do, I have simply reported on the conditions as I have found them, adding some photos where I can, and maybe commented on what the skiing has been like for me. To be honest I'd like to see more of that on the forum, and rather less armchair quarterbacking. With the number of snowHeads visiting such a large number of resorts we collectively cover a very high proportion of resorts in the Alps and we should be encouraging people to post. I'm simply reporting what I've skied, and contradicting some posts which I think are misreporting the situation in some parts of the Alps.
My issue with Whitegold is that he always reduces a complex picture to a set of banal one-liners, which in avoiding the complexity often become factually incorrect. So more snow is forecast, that's genuinely great news. Be nice if he could shed some light on the forecasting models he's using to reach that pronouncement. And maybe some detail, such as will it be both sides of the Alpine ridge so that resorts in some part of Italy get their first snow since October? If Whitegold is unsure of what might be a helpful contribution to the discussion on snow forecasting (as opposed to snow reporting) he could take a look at the posts from Noza. If I remember correctly Whitegold used to be that kind of poster, but now he just like to troll his one liners.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| All Whitegold is saying here is that all the weather forecasts are (finally) predicting new snow to arrive next week. |
That's not what he said. You inserted the word "new". He said snow is finally arriving. There is a world of difference between those two comments. If he had said that new snow is finally arriving I would have simply celebrated that fact.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rob give it a rest 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rob@rar, I think most of us knew precisely what Whitegold meant, whether or not it was what he actually said.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Millom wrote: |
| @rob give it a rest |
So it's OK for you to post here, but not me? Really?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@rob@rar, we all value your comments and your photos.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| @rob@rar, I think most of us knew precisely what Whitegold meant, whether or not it was what he actually said. |
I think he meant to post in his usual sensationalist manner. I disagreed with what he posted, so replied.
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Weathercam, Interesting report, Meteo France is reporting for La Plagne heavy rain below 1700 meters (and snow above) for December 31st all day, with the 0c iso at 2000m 
Can't comment on Jan 2nd as above as the boogers keep changing it!
http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-montagne/la-plagne/73210
I'm forecasting lots of fuss and confusion over the snowfall over the next week or so and fairly confident of big panics on Changeover Saturday!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@rob, you are a bit of a stuck record 
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| Millom wrote: |
| @rob, you are a bit of a stuck record |
When you're in a righteous groove, you're in a righteous groove.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Millom, he has a point. A friend of mine, well experienced in the alps and not usually given to panic, keeps telling me there is "no snow", despite the evidence to the contrary on web-cams (St Anton specifically), because he's very busy with a new job and only has time to grab the headlines. It's obviously not a vintage season, but the more Daily Mail style headlines appear the more people have a tendency to believe them leading to the snowball effect (pun intended), of disproportionate reactions, canceled holidays and damage to the industry in general. Turn down the hyperbole, I think is what @rob@rar is saying.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Sneachta2013 wrote: |
| The not so reliable 'ski club of GB' snow forecast section is predicting up to 1 and 1.5 meters of snow in a lot of French and Swiss resorts over the next nine days so is the season saved?? |
I believe the SCGB forecast is actually snow-forecast in disguise.
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Nobody who paid for NY week will have got good value this year. A few people with very cheap Christmas weeks may have got ok value from their trip. But be clear these conditions the last 2 weeks are likely in the bottom 5% in terms of skiing conditions you'll likely experience with current snow making capability. Then you also have to consider the increased danger of skiing in these conditions. Looking back to nov snow is pointless to most customers. Congrats to people with season passes and in the alps from oct/nov but dont think this is of any interest to the average holiday skier who cared about these last two weeks.
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You know it makes sense.
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My friends in Ishgl are have a great time.
There were 8 No shows in their chalet due to the alleged poor snow, but they say the skiongbis really rather good.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Millom, largely agree with what you said, although in Les Arcs the Christmas week was not too bad. The resort was much quieter than I thought it would be, and pistes above 2000m held up reasonably well, subject to skiing a bit more slowly and making sure your edges were sharp. Fortunately, the fine weather made it more enjoyable than the snow conditions would normally allow at that time of year. NY week looked like it was going to be significantly busier, so the extra crowds and continued deterioration of the snow will certainly have been the bottom 5% of skiing conditions that week. It's a shame the snow is forecast to arrive a week later than it did last season, which, travel chaos aside, saved conditions for NY last year, but not this year.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
My friends in Ishgl are have a great time.
There were 8 No shows in their chalet due to the alleged poor snow, but they say the skiongbis really rather good. |
Ditto for my friends who were in the Sella Ronda for Christmas. No natural snow at all, yet they skied every day in lovely weather and had a terrific holiday.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rob@rar, Almost like spring skiing. I'm so jealous.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think 20-90% is too close to 0-100% to actually mean anything.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| @rob@rar, Almost like spring skiing. I'm so jealous. |
It was certainly a shock to get back to the UK after a month of great weather in the Alps. Is there a season called "Misery" that has been slotted in between Autumn and Winter this year?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Terrific on a scale of terrific to mind blowing but this isn't the scale I'd use  .
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Millom, Skiing with good friends, in good weather, in the Sella Ronda..... Yet, sounds rubbish.
Cheer up, it's Christmas.
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@Millom, that was how they described their holiday. Elsewhere on snowheads other people around the Sella Ronda have been reporting similarly enjoyable holidays. You might have reached a different conclusion had you been there, simply proving that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a good thing that we are allowed to enjoy experiences in our own ways.
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Three families out here this week, six adults and six kids all having a great time in the wall to wall sunshine (except for one daughter who did her knee yesterday), they are making the most of the conditions and keep saying it's better than expected.
And if they came next week even though far far less people, looks like it's going to be whiteout for most days and cold, even though there hopefully will be fresh snow.
For us that are lucky enough to be here all the season, we're hiking, cycling and walking the dogs.
I skied most days last week on the "snow" and was good for working on technique. It's great putting tight turns in down the outside edge where all the scraped snow is for instance.
This week I will not be going up at all as I hate crowds and all that they entail.
Off to the Lautaret now with the dogs.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Millom, as a Birmingham City supporter of many years I can see we are both of the same mind. Joy through misery. Never be tempted to look on the bright side and avoid disappointment entirely. Keep up the good (bad) work.
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@frosty lucky you haven't melted 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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so every holiday has to be described as perfect and just what you wanted?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@rob read my report on the first page where I've tried to be objective (I could explain the concept to you if you like), good snow, enjoyable holiday, value for money are all very different things!
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Apart from the grotty rain on Monday the weather in Christmas week just made the holiday for my daughter and family. Monday was their last day and we spent the afternoon out on the grass in front of the apartment, eating pancakes, drinking tea and sparkling wine, watching the 3and 5 year old playing for hours with big washing buckets of snow brought round from the shady side of the buildings. My daughter and niece did a two hour hike round the slopes in t-shirts. They'd not bothered with skiing after the new year crowds arrived, given the snow conditions. But they were so thrilled that the 5 year old had made spectacular progress in her (entirely French) ski lessons and loved it so much, it was a wonderful holiday.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Millom, Sadly I'm stuck in the UK. Anything would be terrific compared to the weather we have had in December.
Wet, damp, windy, just everything that is bad about Britain in winter.
Today is awful.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Rob@rar I think your memory about Whitegold's previous posting style is faulty. He always posted gnomic, and generally negative, generalisations. Often entertaining but never likely to be taken for nuanced analysis.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Meanwhile another glorious sunny day in the northern French alps. Taking a break from cooking and cleaning and sitting on the terrace with a beer looking over at the restaurant terrace beside the piste. Absolutely rammed as it has been all week. The piste is not in great shape and half those people will stay there for hours taking in the glorious view and not a few drinks. I'm delighted for the lovely family who have invested every penny they have in the place. So far they're having an excellent season.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Millom, I suggest you give up skiing. The perfect conditions that you so crave from your skiing holidays aren't going to happen every time. Maybe not even 50% of the time. There are no guarantees with weather. Meanwhile the rest of us can make the most of our skiing holidays despite the conditions. Personally I have no aversion to manmade snow and sunny days, it's not perfect but it's testament to the amount of serious investment in snowmaking and resort infrastructure in recent seasons. Back in the 80s we would have been hiking on grass and working on our tans. If that's what our lift pass payments are going towards, big thumbs up from me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Millom wrote: |
| I If I'm skiing I want good snow, if I'm diving I want lots of fish, etc. The idea that something is better than nothing is generally absurd. |
Have to say I disagree, if it's a choice between not skiing at all and skiing in less than ideal or marginal conditions I'll take the second option every time...
As I have no ski holiday booked this year (due to job and city changes) I am hoping for the Scottish skiing to pick up a bit so I can get a few days in this season (although I am leaving Aberdeen end of Feb).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm pinning al my hopes on this becoming reality: www.wepowder.com/forecast
Who cares about visibility if it means the icy man made stuff is buried under a layer of fresh. Everything crossed and even had my daughter doing a snow dance earlier.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| nozawaonsen wrote: |
| @davidof, that wasn't the stat @snoozeboy was referring to. It was the suggestion that we are 40% through the season before the end of December. You can find a way of making the claim I'm sure, but it's an example of the sort of thing that seems designed to deliberately grate and irritate people. It's just a form of trolling. |
Err, it is a fact.
Somewhere high in the Alps, like Val Thorens, is about 20% of the way through its season (by days).
Somewhere low in the Alps, like Westendorf, is about 40% of the way through its season (by profit).
You don't make money, you go bust.
There are hundreds of resorts in the Alps. Not just a handful of high French glaciers where some posters have bought or rented a cheap apartment
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| Millom wrote: |
| so every holiday has to be described as perfect and just what you wanted? |
What are you talking about? Who said anything about every holiday has to be perfect?
| Millom wrote: |
| read my report on the first page where I've tried to be objective (I could explain the concept to you if you like), good snow, enjoyable holiday, value for money are all very different things! |
Snow reports can and should be described objectively (and best by people in resort rather than trying to guess what conditions are like from webcams and cherry picking 2nd hand reviews). It's what I seek to do, and well done for your report on conditions in ADH (I'm sorry they weren't better for you). But a holiday experience is a purely subjective matter, not least because it depends on wider range of factors than just the quality of the snow. However, you seem determined to impose your misery on everyone who skied in December, no matter whether they reported having a good time or not.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| There are hundreds of resorts in the Alps. Not just a handful of high French glaciers |
Says the chap who never recommends anywhere lower than 2000m...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Here we are, La Plagne taken at 11.00am today 30th December 2015 on Piste Dos Rond towards the Pierre Blanches restaurant, Les Arcs is in the background.
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@boredsurfin, How is it? Doesn't "look" disastrous. We fly out on Sunday and are staying in Les Coches
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