 Poster: A snowHead
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| @davidof, He skis with two pairs of skis, two rucksacks and makes selfies? |
I would assume he'd made more than one ski trip in his life.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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People who take on risks which they have assessed realistically can and do accomplish great things. People who do high risk stuff whilst denying the risks are probably idiots. Given that some people appear to be unable to face the fact that they are ever going to die, probably a fair few fall into the latter category. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OK I'll bite.
Yes I go ski touring without a partner even glacier skiing and steep skiing.
But doing the Crochoues Berade or Col du Passon on a busy day without a partner, but with the other 100-300 folks that happen to be there.
I've skied many variants of the VB along with the crowds but without starting with anyone specific.
I think I've lapped the Rond and Cosmiques , tout seul, but there were 15-20 the doing the same on a pow day.
Have I been irresponsible, yes probably. But a dammed site less than the 4 times I've had to perform a crevasse rescue because the group ahead of me has dropped someone in hole an no one even knew the hole was there let alone how to get their buddie back! (Always been skiing with friends when having to do Crevase rescue)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I skied off-piste couple times by myself, but there were plenty people around as it happens on powder days when everyone flocks to known safe terrain around the trees, nothing big, really skiing under the lift on a moderate angle. I would start with a friend for fresh tracks but then he would leave for work, and I would stay a bit longer. So, people would be able to see me and I also had someone knowing where I was and check on me. But I understand how it can be dangerous in proper backcountry, on bigger, not frequently travelled routes, because the risk factor goes up considerably, and a relatively small mishap may lead to a big problem or even death when no-one is there. You are technically losing an extra pair of eyes, an extra pair of legs on skis, an extra pair of hands, an extra phone. It has to be taken into account. The likelihood of accident is the same but the probability of a negative outcome, the price of a mistake, goes up.
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I would posit that the chance of an accident is smaller when you are on you own precisely because you are not discounting the danger because of the presence of others.
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Count me among those who enjoy skiing off piste solo as long as I'm familiar with the terrain and understand the avalanche danger.
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Interesting suggestion @altis, but maybe i go about with different sort of people.
Due to sense of care for others, and the often sensible "Second Opinion", I think we ski safer than would if alone.
And of course, if something bad does happen, then there is one to care for the casualty, and one to go for help.
If alone, you only have the mobile phone or walkie-talkie for rescue, assuming you are in a fit state to use them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... Given that some people appear to be unable to face the fact that they are ever going to die, probably a fair few fall into the latter category. |
Certainly some do, although thinking about people I've seen or actually rescued who were doing stupid things, they've all been in groups. It's much easier to be stupid in a group. Don't get me wrong: I'm not advocating that those group-bound stupid people come out alone, I'm pointing out that groups allow stupid people to get further than perhaps is good for them.
Personally I see it in reverse. I know I'm going to die, and that's what gives me the ability to make what I can of the time I have.
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Lots of interesting points here.
But i'm fascinated in the number of people who enjoy skiing alone.
I hate skiing alone, whether on piste or off piste. No fun at all.
I want to share each moment. I enjoy the companionship.
The chat when we stop - some company when you munch your sandwich and pass around the chocolate.
And then to talk about it all together at the end of the day.
Memories alone are not memories at all.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A memory of an event that didn't exist is a dream.
I do, not dream.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 16-11-15 19:11; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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All the stuff I do outside, from cycling to hiking to skiing to golfing, is just ten times more fun with me mates.
After one particular mountainbiking accident I realised I would have been seriously buggered if I'd been on my own, so I don't do that or ski off piste or hillwalk on my own anymore either, although I used to.
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3 guys from our chalet once saved a solo German skier who had gone up a lift to dense fog and then fallen and broken his leg, just off the side of the piste in zero visibility. If they had not heard him call, he might have been a goner as the weather stayed bad all day and not many were going up. They got medals from the pisteur's office as well as one of them nearly getting hypothermia!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I hate skiing alone, whether on piste or off piste. No fun at all.
I want to share each moment. I enjoy the companionship.
The chat when we stop - some company when you munch your sandwich and pass around the chocolate.
And then to talk about it all together at the end of the day.
Memories alone are not memories at all.
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I see it differently - two different ways to enjoy the experience. Don't get me wrong, I've never once said "actually I'd prefer to do this hike/ski/climb on my own" but when I have been on my own I have enjoyed it and sometimes it has definitely been memorable. As someone else said, you can focus a bit more on the surroundings when you are alone. And the extra element of self-reliance can add a different intensity.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Most things are more fun with friends but that isn't always an option.
I also ski further and faster than my friends these days. I don't mind dialling back to their pace some of the time. Wouldn't want to do that always.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I often go climbing on my own. I generally stick within my comfort zone grade wise or harder climbs I know well but there is something very special (to me) about climbing unencumbered by rope, rack and the only noise being that of nature. It's not "better" than climbing with someone, just different.
I never really ski on my own as I live in Manchester so if I'm somewhere where there is skiing, I will have gone there with someone. I might skin up and ski down in a resort before the lifts open on a family ski trip but that's it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I prefer skiing with people, but enjoy (off piste) skiing so much that doing it alone is more than fun enough to be worth the effort if nobody is around. I've skied off piste and toured off piste on my own many times, but i'd feel uncomfortable doing it too far from a resort.
I have toured/skied on a glacier alone, but feel nervous when I think back about it. 
I do consider myself reasonably well educated in the risks, and am definitely cautious when skiing alone.
| Jonpim wrote: |
Memories alone are not memories at all. |
I disagree with that, I have lots of good memories from times I've been alone. Skiing, travelling and many others.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'll ski solo quite happily and in fact most of my ski-touring in Scotland has been alone (I leave details of where I'm going with a friend).
I'm a bit more twitchy about solo glacier skiing but will do it if I know the glacier well and it's a moderately friendly one. For example the standard off-piste descent down to and along the Argentiere glacier from the Grands Montets is fairly amenable.
Ultimately I prefer solitude when in the mountains and there's not a lot of that on the pistes!
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Agreed@MadMountainMan,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| MadMountainMan wrote: |
I'm a bit more twitchy about solo glacier skiing but will do it if I know the glacier well and it's a moderately friendly one. For example the standard off-piste descent down to and along the Argentiere glacier from the Grands Montets is fairly amenable.
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...as in the one that swallows people on a moderately regular basis?
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What a lovely friendly thread.
Some pronounced differences of opinion, but no ranting, no bullying, no derogatory posts:
Just gentle statements of preference.
And i remain fascinated there are so many people who prefer solitary in the mountain - but i suspect most of you are actually very sociable elsewhere.
Whereas i'm rather the reverse - something for the Headologists there, maybe
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| Quote: |
...as in the one that swallows people on a moderately regular basis?
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What did I say about the need to accept the higher risk of dying?
I hope all the people who go alone and rely on other parties to pull them out of trouble are equipped (in all ways) to do the same for somebody else - as Idris is.
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It's quite interesting reading this post, and I have to agree with both sides of the picture, of being solo and in a group.
TBH I can't vouch to much in going solo off piste, as i've only ventured down the itineraries of Verbier solo, when i've been with others have got the lift down. Saying that, I like doing things solo, I like to challenge myself and I do like that sense of accomplishment when completing a challenge solo, or one where I knew of no one that would like to join me.
I would always try to ski / go with someone first. Ideally that person would be very much of the same ability where you / I are not dependant on them or vise versa, but is just there to enjoy the break and accomplishment. Sometimes you hardly even know they are there you're so fixated on reaching somewhere.
I would only ever go by myself, if I felt the risk was within reason for myself and what I assessed was my own ability. I do feel that going solo does make you much more aware of what you abilities are, where as a group (like others have said) can mask those frailties that some have.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I'm a bit more twitchy about solo glacier skiing but will do it if I know the glacier well and it's a moderately friendly one
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Personally I wouldn't travel on glaciers alone. That's an area where my risk appetite would run out. But I'm not saying other people are wrong to do it - their local knowledge or just experienced based intuition may be much better than mine (as undoubtedly Idris's is).
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| Quote: |
And i remain fascinated there are so many people who prefer solitary in the mountain
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I'm not sure anyone posting here has said they "prefer" it? Some people have said that it is different but equally enjoyable. Others have said basically "a day in the mountains on your own is better than a day not in the mountains". Don't get me wrong - I know some people do prefer it but they are unusual and not represented here
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think most people, given choice, would generally prefer company.
However going out your own is better than sitting at home ?
There are many reasons why you can't always line up other peoples availability to fit your own.
You might have a mid week day off / friends busy / limited time window / random route no one else is interested in <etc>
With young children I go out on my mountain bike solo much more often these days.
For example : I can wake up early at 7am (without pre-planning) for quick MTB lap and be back by 10am to spend time with the family.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm not an off piste/glacier skier but I can understand why people would prefer to go alone. I often do hill-walking alone, out in France, often in quite isolated surroundings. I'm not likely to fall down a crevasse but am aware that something as trivial as a broken ankle could seriously stuff up my day. I'm careful, I'm adequately shod and carry water and warm stuff, I have a map etc. It's only very recently that I can say I always have my phone (thanks to nagging from my children) but it doesn't always have a signal...... So yes, the risk is undoubtedly higher.
I do enjoy walking with other people too, but only if they want to go at my pace. If they are faster and fitter it's painful for all concerned, and I don't like turning a walk into a kind of gentle stroll. Being pushed a little, or slowing down a little, is fine. But beyond that it's not enjoyable any more and I can imagine the same applies to ski-tourers. An experienced person is not going to want to spend hours climing 500m.
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| Quote: |
I do enjoy walking with other people too, but only if they want to go at my pace. If they are faster and fitter it's painful for all concerned, and I don't like turning a walk into a kind of gentle stroll. Being pushed a little, or slowing down a little, is fine. But beyond that it's not enjoyable any more and I can imagine the same applies to ski-tourers. An experienced person is not going to want to spend hours climing 500m.
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I did a lot of walking with my family this summer - definitely had to make concessions on pace and distance but I don't mind that. That said I also enjoyed the couple of times when they stopped for a leisurely pic-nic and I stole away for an hour to bag a peak rather more energetically. It's all good.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
... Lots of us do risky things every now and then.
But do we really accept the risk?
Or do we deny it, pretend its not really there: not for us, not today.
And of course its not just us - there is family, friends, and the rescue service . . . |
You're describing peoples' attitude to road traffic risk.
The risks of soloing are very different, as is the attitude of those of us who do it. So I think you could not be more incorrect.
- Friends should understand that it's our risk to take.
- It's hard to explain to the family of dead friends, but I've done that and I think they understand that they can't control their kids' choices.
- I've rescued/ recovered plenty, and I've no problem with "the additional risk" of solo people.
As I said, you're more likely to encounter wilful incompetence in a group, or from a group leader, in my experience.
Being in a group is only of assistance if the group is competent, and often a group exists because the individuals aren't competent.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I did a lot of walking with my family this summer - definitely had to make concessions on pace and distance but I don't mind that
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yes, I don't mind if it's little kids or the halt and lame - just glad to get them out walking. But I did a holiday with a friend last year - she walks her dog for at least an hour a day but, as I discovered, she walks at a shambling pace whilst he races round everywhere. That was a bit frustrating, for a whole week! It works both ways; I would feel embarassed and not enjoy at all a walk where I felt people were having to wait for me all the time.
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Being in a group is only of assistance if the group is competent, and often a group exists because the individuals aren't competent.
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This sounds right. But at least if they are not half-witted somebody could call for help - or go for help.
I had this thread in mind when I climbed up into my attic this morning. Alone! A friend did fall off a step ladder, doing just that, and one of his feet got stuck at the top of the ladder, so he did the splits. He was horribly injured and took ages to drag himself to a phone and call his wife - at work a long way away. The rescue crews had to break in.
But few people would consider it horribly irresponsible to be up a step ladder on your own at home - even though accidents in the home are so common.
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Poster: A snowHead
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"dial it back", "ski within", "dont take as many risks","more acutely aware of dangers " etc .. whilst skiing solo ...
... group peer pressure accidents waiting to happen ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| offpisteskiing wrote: |
| MadMountainMan wrote: |
I'm a bit more twitchy about solo glacier skiing but will do it if I know the glacier well and it's a moderately friendly one. For example the standard off-piste descent down to and along the Argentiere glacier from the Grands Montets is fairly amenable.
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...as in the one that swallows people on a moderately regular basis? |
Depends where you go; there are horrendously crevassed areas and barely crevassed areas (as with most glaciers).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I once saw a measle map of the Mont Blanc area with a black spot for each fatality. I have to say the Argentiere Glacier was the spottiest place on the map for that year along with the top of Monte Blanc, although it did include the summer. The glacier to the right of the Pointe de Vue, the route known as the Rognons regularly swallows skiers!
A friend of mine, skiing down it last in a group of four, only spotted a hole at the last second while her friends were shouting warnings at her, she jumped over it with such force that she jumped right out of her skis, one of which disappeared down the hole forever!
If you look at the side of the Argentiere glacier in the summer you could drop a bus down the edge of it in some places.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I was skiing off piste with a guided group in America last winter and jumped a small crevasse at the last minute, it being totally invisible to me until I was a few metres above it (this was on a clear, sunny day). I was skiing at a moderate pace but not really fast. Landed heavily on the far side and broke a ski boot and my wrist. It emphasized to me how careful you need to be on glaciers as the danger is not always immediately obvious from the low perspective of the skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| musehead wrote: |
| I was skiing off piste with a guided group in America last winter and jumped a small crevasse at the last minute, it being totally invisible to me until I was a few metres above it (this was on a clear, sunny day). I was skiing at a moderate pace but not really fast. Landed heavily on the far side and broke a ski boot and my wrist. It emphasized to me how careful you need to be on glaciers as the danger is not always immediately obvious from the low perspective of the skier. |
Wow. Which area?
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@Mike Pow, South Alaska. Couldn't ski again but at least got replacement boots and a good rebate from the travel insurance!
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Good to read that there are many who have the same mindset 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Jonpim, I've never skied off-piste on my own. The reason why is I'm not good enough. I don't have confidence that I am a good enough skier to get out of trouble if I got into it.
@Weathercam, It's a really interesting topic. Whilst I wouldn' ski off piste I'd never really thought about it in other activities. I've been in water all my life, I'm confident in it and I'm usually happy to be alone. For me it was swimming, so never that far from land. There have been times when it didn't feel right so I didn't do it. And its the same with running or biking. But then I guess I'm mostly near others so if I did injure myself someone would find me fairly quickly.
I love to ski on my own on piste. Put some music on and go where I want.
And it's quite nice to find other people who do go it alone where they are confident to - especially as I have just been told off by mountainaddict on another thread for skiing alone on un-groomed pistes.
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FAQ
