 Poster: A snowHead
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Re bartenders: Was once advised that if you were to spend a whole night in one bar, the bartender will expect a tip with every drink - either in his/her hand or in the jar.... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Most people who use snowHeads don't even pay, let alone tip 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The apparent lack of any competition seems to demonstrate the hollowness of the much vaunted free enterprise culture in the US. A good case for unionization if ever there was one. I'm so thankful I have no plans to ski in North America. I can get a private lesson for €85 euro for two hours in France and know the instructor is getting a high proportion of it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| The apparent lack of any competition seems to demonstrate the hollowness of the much vaunted free enterprise culture in the US. |
What lack of competition? Ski resorts are monopolies when it comes to ski school. It 'demonstrates' nothing.
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| A good case for unionization if ever there was one. |
Aspen ski instructors just did that! We shall see if that is the beginning of the change.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well, to my mind a monopoly demonstrates - is indeed the epitome - of a lack of competition. it makes the dodgy anti competitive tactics of the French and Austrian resorts look pretty feeble.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Private day lesson in Whistler this year coming CAD$559 it is ridiculous that the instructor gets about $200. How can the mountain justify the $359 it gets. On top of paying for a lift ticket.
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$559 is just for a 3 hour half-day private lesson, the full-day 6 hour lesson comes in at CAD$789 +tax +lift ticket etc.
A very experienced instructor might see 200 of that but more typically the pay for the instructor would be more like 130-150 for the day.
Also for group lessons, if 4 people take a group lesson for one day in peak holiday season they would be charged CAD 249 x 4 people = CAD 996 +tax.
For group lessons a less-experienced instructor would receive just over CAD 70 for the day, and with a few years experience would receive around 90-100 CAD.
Of course there are also discounted seasons and multi-day discounts offered which make the lessons cheaper but the profits still seem huge to the mountain.
I think the clients assume the instructors are paid more just based on the price of the lessons so maybe don't feel they really need to tip. Anyway there's always a supply of people wanting to work as instructors so the mountains don't really have to pay more.
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Bar tipping is quite easy once you get the hang of it. Then you are basically only tipping the bartender and most of your drinks are free. But you will need to demonstrate you get the system, otherwise you will be assumed to be just another brit who doesn't leave any tips.
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I think the clients assume the instructors are paid more just based on the price of the lessons so maybe don't feel they really need to tip. |
That's actually a fair assumption. So let it be.
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| Anyway there's always a supply of people wanting to work as instructors so the mountains don't really have to pay more. |
Supply of "people" are plentiful. But are they any good?
It's no different than waitresses, They're unskilled labour force. That's how they were paid by the ski schools.
They may have good skill skiing. But many of them are unskilled in teaching!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah I know what you're saying about if they are actually any good at teaching.
But in Whistler to apply for the adult ski school they require specific minimum certification and number of seasons teaching experience, and still they are way oversubscribed.
So they actually can get experienced teachers without paying too much. I think most instructors just accept it is more of a lifestyle choice and enjoy being on the mountains even if the pay is not so ideal.
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My stepson and his girlfriend were instructors at Squaw Valley kids ski school last season. They were both BASI level 2 with one season under their belts. They were in the top third of instructor in terms of ranking of qualifications and therefore got priority for work above the others lower down (in theory). Many instructors were South American (as were many of the resort staff-cheap to employ). The adult ski school was miniscule in terms of staff numbers. I can't help but think that that was because no one wanted to pay the $699 per day for a private lesson. I saw few adults on the mountain having a lesson either in group lessons or private.
Of the $699 he would get around $150. He did get some good regular private lessons, especially from a family of rich Californians, and did get tipped well by them.
I saw one adult school instructor with his class of pupils. Frankly he would have struggled to be at the level of BASI level 1, so obviously poor was his own technique. Quite scary. L told me he wasn't the only one who was so technically poor teaching on the mountain.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think Squaw probably had other snowfall related problems that heavily influenced number of visitors that would take adult lessons. Plus of course instructors either geographically relocating or giving it up as uneconomically viable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, no...this was the state of play at the start of the season. They recruit staff specifically into the adult or kids' ski schools. The numbers were far lower for adults from day one.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm so thankful I have no plans to ski in North America. |
I can't fathom this statement. "I'd rather ski in Europe than America because A, B, C" I could understand (even if I disagreed with the premises). But, as written, it's as if the very thought of setting skis on North American trails is inherently distasteful.
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You know it makes sense.
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While quite a few people are interested in instructing for a season or two, as snow pro wages in the US have not kept up with inflation or lesson price increases, there is not an endless supply knocking on the doors of the resorts. That is why the schools are allowed to get special visas for foreign workers and why some school have been short on instructors at times or have implemented recruiting programs. http://www.epicski.com/t/142038/ski-instructors-not-a-dime-a-dozen
If you think high lesson prices guarantees an experienced instructor, check out this Deer Valley job ad https://jobs.deervalley.com/job/Park-City-Ski-Instructor-No-Experience-Full-Time-15-16-UT-84060/262691600/
Ski Instructor No Experience- Winter 2015/16- Full Time
Apply now
Date: Oct 14, 2015
Location: Park City, UT, US
Company: Deer Valley Resort
Deer Valley is an award-winning destination ski resort that typically has positions available in lodging, ski school, casual and fine dining food and beverage operations, ski rental shops, mountain operations such as groomer, snowmaker, ski patrol and everything in between!
PURPOSE OF POSITION: Teach alpine skiing to Deer Valley guests (children or adults) at Beginner to Intermediate ability zones
JOB QUALIFICATIONS:
Must have excellent guest service skills
Able to ski Beginner to Intermediate terrain in variable conditions
Able to lift 40 lbs; stand/ski six to nine hours; perform bending, lifting and twisting movements
Able to work in variable weather and snow conditions
Willing to work weekends and holidays
Own/use alpine ski equipment; must pass boot/binding checks
JOB DUTIES / RESPONSIBILITIES:
Teach alpine skiing to Beginner to Intermediate ability zone skiers, using PSIA/AASI teaching methodology and following the safety codes of the mountain
Punctuality: must be dressed, equipped and at the meeting location on time; must adhere to lesson times, lunch breaks, clinics and schedules of the Ski School
Plan, organize and implement appropriate ability zone plan for each ski lesson; conduct lesson in professional manner
Attend instructor meetings, training and performance reviews
Able to work with general supervision and make reasonable decisions based upon policies and procedures outlined in company manuals; adhere to Ski School and HR policies and procedures
Display professional conduct with parents, children and caregivers in all situations, some of which may be stressful; write daily progress cards for students and their parents
Perform other duties as assigned
DEER VALLEY SKIER SERVICES EXPECTATIONS:
Exemplify a strong work ethic
Function as a team player
Interact with members of Skier Services peer group, instructors, agents and supervisors in a positive and professional manner
Interact positively with other Deer Valley Resort employees
Communicate any suggestions or concerns to manager in a timely manner
Speak and act professionally while on duty
Support/follow Deer Valley Resort policies and procedures, including DV Employee Handbook guidelines and the Ski School Instructor Guide
Be a good example to those around you with a positive, supportive attitude
DATES OF EMPLOYMENT: December to mid April
Keywords: Deer Valley, DV, ski, skiing, park city, utah, winter, Skier Services, PSIA, instructor, teach, level 1, part-time, seasonal, day-time.
Varying with employment status and tenure, Deer Valley offers their staff ski privileges, friends and family ski passes, health insurance, an end-of-season bonus, housing, dining and retail discounts, wellness and yoga classes, employee assistance support and more!
Nearest Major Market: Salt Lake City
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@laundryman, no, the thought of setting foot in the US is not distasteful. I'd happily go back to the States but the thought of paying a fortune for lessons then feeling that unless I tip heavily the instructor is being paid peanuts does indeed make me feel queasy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, I understand that and agree; I find it very awkward in the States trying to figure if a tip is appropriate and how much, in all kinds of circumstances. The statement I quoted did make me double-take though!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I think you're probably right about Squaw - lack of snow hasn't helped!
@Perty, At Squaw the kids ski school is run very differently to the adult ski school, and you probably didn't see most of the adult instructors since many of them never go to line-up, and meet their clients in other areas of the resort. They also don't tend to teach in the same areas that most people ski.  The level of certification in the adult ski school is also much higher - there are many L2 and L3 certified instructors with many years of experience.
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FAQ
