Candide is the perfect example of the perfect modern day skier. Started young, classic training through the french system. After that he branches out into the then unknown territory of freestyle skiing, and creates/ lays the foundations for what all the freestyle skiers of today are doing. After which he goes onto big mountain and wins the FWT. I'm fairly sure that he won the FWT on fat unrockered skies as well. He regularly adds some 'raw footage' of old trips etc on his twitter and facebook feeds and the fluidity and speed is just astounding to see. I love watching the FWT, I even enjoyed waiting for the FWT last night and it never happened, times move on, but good skiers will always be good skiers. There are so many webisodes out there now showing the smoothness of the modern skier and I for one will not get bored of watching them. (Bon Appetit for pow, Real Skifi for incredible urban invention.)
I learnt on 1.90 skinnies (I was always short) but I know that I can ski much better nowadays!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@davidof, You probably watch it with a cup of cocoa in hand.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Admittedly I have not read this whole thread. The way I see it is this. During the FWT they are in really variable and tough snow conditions skiing challenging terrain and sending big drops, its never going to be clean but they are at the top of their game and at the limit. In true powder they are much cleaner, like in the movies...
Look at a slow mo of a race turn in GS SG DH (not so much in SL but still to an extent), the skis are going pretty mad and they are a true race ski no rocker etc. Its not such a bad thing to get out of shape if the end result is still good. High performance is always going to be a bit rugged, part of the fun in freeride and in all skiing for me is being a bit 'loose'.
@Mike Pow, thanks for the video- that was amazing.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@davidof,
After all it is free
After all it is free
My pleasure pam W, Hurtle and ed123.
It goes back to the story of when a journalist was asking who was a better scrum half, Gareth Edwards or INSERT NAME OF YOUR FAVOURITE CURRENT SCRUM HALF.
The interviewee went through all the pros and cons, the strengths and weaknesses and finally decided that the current scrum half was better.
But ended with the caveat that 'Gareth is 67 years old mind'
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@Mike Pow,
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Pdsmark, I agree.
I think modern skiing has lost the elegance the sport used to have. Shorter wider skis, higher speeds and a fashion for feet hip width apart looks ragged to me. I'm sure others will disagree however sH:
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Pdsmark wrote:
PS. One other linked observation. Is it fair to say that in the 80s and 90s most 'extreme' skiers had a background in racing or mogul competition and so were coming into extreme skiing with strong race technique. Where as now it is possible to enter into the 'freestyle/ extreme' camp without the need to get involved with the more traditional race disciplines at all?
I would be really, really surprised if the majority of skiers on the FWT hadn't done regular racing as kids, how early they stopped doing that and concentrated on freeskiing will probably vary but I would imagine they would all look pretty tidy on a pair of carvers on hardpack.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Candide Thovex, in that video, was poetry in motion coming down those impossible mountains. Flowing like water.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I can't even begin to put myself in the same category as the FWT skiers but I do most of my skiing in Chamonix, off piste (and almost always out of my comfort zone), where you can come across 10 different types of snow in a single line, along with all sorts of features such as rocks, drops, gullies and crevasses.
To get down that incredibly variable line, you to have to use your skis as tools and you angle and position them in whatever way is necessary to get down that line in one piece. Some people call it combat skiing, I call it billygoating. Whatever you call it, it's technical, it's challenging and it's an adventure. The FWT skiers do just that but much faster and much bigger. So I can only have respect for their amazing skills.
There's a fantastic little film, Downside Up, about some local Chamonix freeride skiers (ex-racers) that shows just how skillful these guys really are. I can only dream about being that good.
@Zero_G, great trailer, will definitely take some time to watch the whole film. Thanks.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Peter S wrote:
Pdsmark, I agree.
I think modern skiing has lost the elegance the sport used to have. Shorter wider skis, higher speeds and a fashion for feet hip width apart looks ragged to me. I'm sure others will disagree however sH:
For sure - modern skiing has changed.
No doubt the likes of Plake, Coombs, Schmitt were just as skilful as modern days skiers.
However the sport has changed dramatically since this the 80 and 90s.
Mainly due to changes and progression in equipment design ?
Wider skis, rocker + twin tips allow much faster speeds, bigger airs and switch landings.
I have always believed is that there is more to good skiing "than just carving" ?
Indeed on variable snow with big skis the turns are always much more rotational.
Arguably a 110mm skis is harder to carve cleanly than an old school ski.
However the technique is undoubtedly skillful skiing.
Feet hip width apart is more stable than a narrow stance ?
Plus wider skis / rocker allow better floatation and again better balance ?
(though in the old days you did have to be a good skier to venture off piste - these days anyone on their 2nd week can do it?)
For my money Candide Thovex has valid claim for the most stylish skier of all time ?
Tricks like his d-spin 720 or 810 to rail hadn't even been invented in the late 90s !
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There is no doubt when it comes to air time and tricks modern skiers are way more advanced than we could have ever imagined 10 or 20 years go. The tricks you mention @Haggis_Trap, are indeed remarkable.
But I suppose my original post was more about the skiing inbetween all cliffs, tricks, rails etc. The 'heart of skiing' as I would see it and the bit we all get to do. And for that somehow I keep coming back to Scott and Plake on those long skis. Yes alright the endless jump turns in the couloirs weren't so elegant, but their off piste and mogul techniques were second to none, it's the bounce, the control, the speed of transition from turn to turn, that mesmerises me.
I guess I'm not such a fan of the more modern wide radius floaty turns, but again it's personal preference.
Mind you I don't for a minute think we should all go back to using those long narrow skis, it was just too hard to master them, but for those that could it didn't half look good.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 21-03-15 12:35; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Pdsmark,
Quote:
There is no doubt when it comes to air time and tricks modern skiers are way more advanced than we could have ever imagined 10 or 20 years go. The tricks you mention @Haggis_Trap, are indeed remarkable.
But I suppose my original post was more about the skiing inbetween all cliffs, tricks, rails etc. The 'heart of skiing' as I would see it and the bit we all get to do. And for that somehow I keep coming back to Scott and Plake on those long skis. Yes alright the endless jump turns in the couloirs weren't so elegant, but their off piste and mogul techniques were second to none, it's the bounce, the control, the speed of transition from turn to turn, that mesmerises me.
Comnpletely agree, and I also think that most 'tricks' are pretty inelegant. They may be very skilled, but not necessarily that elegant. Partiocularly crosses and grabs.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@foxtrotzulu, +1. I'm not a huge fan of all the crosses and grabs, don't mind a few, but mostly it's the simpler the better for me, it's elegance and control I enjoy most.
I think it's more to do with the speed of rotation required for 'multiples'. A huge single backflip with an Iron Cross looks quite stylish and elegant to me, a double less so, a triple even less, if you throw in a double cork or horizontal axis spins on top of that and you may as well have put the guy in a washing machine and filmed the results.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Glen Plake and Scott Schmidt are and were INCREDIBLE skiers, but when you look at the boundaries they were pushing at the time:
For sure Glen and Scott are/were awesome, but I think it's also fair to say that they found themselves out of their depths on those first trips to Europe - there was already a European extreme ski scene which was quietly pushing the boundaries a lot further back than the americans, and plenty of Chamonix locals who could have skied that couloir without too much difficulty. Talking Anselme Baud et al here.
After all it is free
After all it is free
So this is the thread for outing the grumpy old people then?
The criteria for the FWT does not make for high scoring runs with lots of hip wiggle. Powder 8's are over there ---->
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This thread baffles me, what's next, complaining that Hirscher carves too much in SL?
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It's a 'small head, wooden racket' argument.
And pros on both sides of the argument are valid IMHO.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@jimmer, I genuinely don't see much complaining going on here but rather a reasoned debate about comparing styles, technique and equipment of past and present, which of course involves stating personal preferences. I don't think anyone is saying x or y is a load of dangly bits. As @Mike Pow, says there seems to be valid points on both sides.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Now that's magic, how bo**ocks gets replaced by dangles bits. Bravo!
@stevomcd, it had never even occurred to me that that would be the case, but makes sense now you've pointed it out.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The thread has got me wondering about equipment choice for the athletes and if given the typical snow conditions for a comp isn't powder, if rockered fat boys are the optimum solution (commercial considerations aside) ?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Pdsmark wrote:
@jimmer, I genuinely don't see much complaining going on here but rather a reasoned debate about comparing styles, technique and equipment of past and present, which of course involves stating personal preferences. I don't think anyone is saying x or y is a load of dangley bits. As @Mike Pow, says there seems to be valid points on both sides.
There definitely seem to be a camp that prefers daffies to cork 7s, short turns to pinning it, and hip checks to stomping, and whilst these arguments may be reasoned, I still don't understand how anyone could think that!
Rockered powder skis are definitely not the ideal for hard conditions, I competed a few weeks ago in a FWQ in Spain, the face was pure ice with runnels from recent rain, I dropped first as the sun was just hitting the face, I really wished I wasn't on 120mm underfoot mega rockered skis, but sometimes you can't carry your whole quiver. I would have probably only have liked to have been on a 100mm underfoot ski, as anything smaller is no fun to jump on.
Can't seem to embed from fb, but you can see I barely put a scratch on the snow here
The thread has got me wondering about equipment choice for the athletes and if given the typical snow conditions for a comp isn't powder, if rockered fat boys are the optimum solution (commercial considerations aside) ?
If you look at the Andorra comp several of them were on more reasonable skis - there were quite a few Völklk Katanas about - 111mm, stiff and damp as (lots of metal), and very subtle rocker. Can't think of many better skis for those conditions.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
@Pdsmark Wrote ,
Sam's choice of line is very demanding and indeed admirable, but the skiing in-between all the drops isn't very aesthetic
I nearly fell of my chair laughing at this, perhaps you are not so clued up on the difficulty he/they face, comparing it to racers who ski down a flat consistent sheet of ice with razors on their feet is brilliant
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
To say that the skiing in the big mountain competitions is not "aesthetic" (sic) is a bit like saying that the gold medal butterfly swimmers are less elegant than the synchronised swimming team.
Ice dancing might be more elegant than speed skating.
Apples and pears, isn't it?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ahhh aesthetics...
Da Vinci v Picasso
Ali v Frazier
Zidane v Maradona
Chelsea v rest of PL hackers
...all very subjective...except the last one, perhaps
Glen Plake and Scott Schmidt are and were INCREDIBLE skiers, but when you look at the boundaries they were pushing at the time:
For sure Glen and Scott are/were awesome, but I think it's also fair to say that they found themselves out of their depths on those first trips to Europe - there was already a European extreme ski scene which was quietly pushing the boundaries a lot further back than the americans, and plenty of Chamonix locals who could have skied that couloir without too much difficulty. Talking Anselme Baud et al here.
This
People are looking at Blizzard with incredibly rose tinted glasses. Have you watched it recently? The skiing is actually quite poor imo. There are so many uncompleted jump shots because they land next to nothing. The GM couloir sequence posted above they don't land. The couloir off Aiguille du Midi Scott nearly falls in, Plake does fall in, Hattrup loses a ski in. And compared to what was actually being skied at that time by Benedetti et al it was pretty low on the extreme stakes (I should point out that either of those lines are light years beyond my ability or capacity for risk lest anyone think I'm being an armchair warrior).
I don't know how anyone could look at that and look at Candide skiing and think they were better back then. There is light years between them. Blizzard has been put up there as this landmark ski movie but I think its more about attitude and a cultural shift than the actual skiing. I was only a kid when it was released, and came into it through Steep. Was really looking forward to seeing it but was really disappointed when I did, mainly because I had come to it through watching modern films where the skiing and lines were much better.
And its not just the big budget movies. Check out this go pro offering, powder I know, but the best skiing is actually when he's on the piste.
Things are much more fluid and graceful now imo (though I can see how people might watch a given FWT event in poor conditions and perhaps think otherwise)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
8611 wrote:
People are looking at Blizzard with incredibly rose tinted glasses. Have you watched it recently? The skiing is actually quite poor imo. )
I remember first watching "blizzard of aahs" round about 1994.
During that era it was very iconic - and this was in the days long before interwebz.
Not just the year it was released, but for about 5 years afterwards it was the film to watch with your buddies.
No one else had really made an english language ski film and promoted the idea of "off piste" to the masses.
Even though (as mentioned above) Plake et al. weren't right on the cutting edge of steep skiing.
Perhaps looking back it looks poor ?
But only in comparison to modern offerings ?
Arguably it defined the concept of modern ski films (much like a Rolling Stones record defined rock ?)
I still remember my long K2 skis
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
under a new name wrote:
@Haggis_Trap, "no one else, etc."
Dick Barrymore?
Warren Miller?
For sure : however up until Blizzard was released in 1988 neither of the above had wide spread / main stream cultural impact.
It obviously appears dated now - but arguably Blizzard of Aahs defined the modern ski film genre ?
After all it is free
After all it is free
> For sure : however up until Blizzard was released in 1988 neither of the above had wide spread / main stream cultural impact.
Someone mentioned Baud, but no way would Anselm have launched himself into that couloir like Schmidt did, He would have done a few jump turns, skied round the rock band and jumped the rimaye.... and it would not have been the iconic madness of BOAs.
But then Baud had to work all winter, he couldn't afford a broken leg doing a ski film.
Apocalypse Snow (1983) probably had a bigger impact than Blizzard, it put snowboarding (and Zorbs, les Arcs) onto the European map
The euros went crazy building cable cars after seeing these films
Last edited by After all it is free on Sun 22-03-15 13:28; edited 2 times in total
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@Haggis_Trap, i'm unconvinced that BoAssssss had mainstream impact. Although I am not arguing that it was not the seminal extreme ski film. Just that there was history before that.
Highlight of my annual ski trip as a kid was the Dick B offering at the Osprey, Aviemore
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I have to agree with @8611, Blizzard of Aaahs has to be watched in context - just look at that fluro !
And the music !
More recent stuff - they land the trick, not cutting away from an inevitable crash, or just showing the crash so we know how big those skiers balls are. And they were good skiers, with balls, but modern kit and skiers are just better.
It's like 2001:a space odessey...great creative film ... for it's time.
FAQ
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You probably watch it with a cup of cocoa in hand.
(lots of metal), and very subtle rocker. Can't think of many better skis for those conditions.
