 Poster: A snowHead
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@DB, hmm, to my geometry, "pull back" is merely absorption on a gradient, call me old fashioned... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Watch the vid while listening to the French Radio station 'Classic and Jazz' on streaming. Perfect combo. Nice 
Edit: It also helps if you have already shared two bottles of chateauneuf du pape and your wife suddenly proposes a drinking competition. Happy days. WTF ! That's the w/e gone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Pulling back and thinking about keeping your heels behind is a way to learn to stay in proper balance .. I think that image is helpful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@bpirkle, if it helps, and it works, it's good!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've been skiing for a long, long time and if you saw me on a bumped up red you'd think I was a pretty good mogul skier .. but on black runs with big, steep moguls I struggle to link more than 3 or 4 turns before I get something wrong, pick up too much speed and have to bail. I make it up as I go along and while experience and athleticism goes a long way there are certain techniques that will take you to the next level that you might not get to on your own. This thread has been very interesting as I've found some really good vids of proper mogul skiing strategy and technique which heretofore I've not ever had laid out for me in a way I take with me on to the hill .. anyway I'm looking forward to a few bump runs on our annual Feb half term trip to St Gervais .. my kids love messing around on bumped up runs and I spend my time there keeping an eye on them and trying to ski them properly .. Brien
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I actually find it more helpful not to think in terms of different techniques for different terrain as it over complicates things and makes it psychologically harder. Sure you may have to adapt the fundamentals but get the fundamentals right and you are good everywhere. Get them wrong when the terrain gets more difficult and the mountain will let you know you need to do more work on the fundamentals.
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@TTT, I think I agree.
If a skier enters the bumps with their weight too far back - disaster. Basically, most people ski with their weight too far back, and on smooth pistes they get away with it. As a result they avoid bumps.
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@lampbus, thanks and agreed - that would be a good example of what I'm trying to say. In bumps I don't think you should be trying to do anything different, just make sure you are getting the basics which you should always be doing anyway right. It helps not to mystify bumps by thinking you should be doing something special. Keep it simple.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TTT, I have to say I totally disagree when it comes to bumps. There's a very specific set of tweaks to normal technique that helps. Everything else fails.
That's just the way it is... 
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@under a new name, +1
Apart from stance, weight, upper body down the fall line and pressing tips into the snow, it's the same
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kitenski, ok, i'll go with that...but that is how i ski anyway!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@TTT, you're right that, in general, good technique on the groomers is also good technique on the bumps, but some adaptations are necessary. In particular, you need to understand where best to turn and how best to navigate the bumpy maze. Another important difference is that your skis must be closer together in the bumps or you risk doing the splits. Finally, the point made by many about pressing your ski tips down after a bump is because a mogul field isn't a terrain park. As a bump beginner, you don't want to get air on a bump, but you might be very happy to enjoy the odd short bit of flight on a groomer.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Jonny Jones, I mostly make turns where I want to, not where the bumps are, and just adapt by the moment.
Most bump fields I come across are very uneven, not at all like a prepared olympic bump run with zipper line.
Anyway, I am relatively new to all this bumps-for-fun thing. I did a couple of bumps clinics two years back with Claude @ EoSB.
I also usually ski with my feet too close together (someone said it is 'gay french style') and I was told over xmas (by a manly Austrian instructor) that I have my arms too wide.
<shrug> its a style I have trademarked and I will be producing a series of training videos for everyone to buy and learn from. I may call it 'Northumbrian Ski Technique'.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you want to properly crack bumps you should take a private half day lesson or even two during your next ski trip. It's a path and it takes some dedication and there are a few things that you may want to work on separately before it can all come together. A good instructor will help to sort this. There are a few components, like pole plants, diving tips, absorption etc. and it might be better to focus on each of these areas separately. It worked for me, and whichever area I improved not only did increase my confidence when facing moguls, but also made my overall skiing better.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@TTT, it really depends on whether you are talking about (effectively) being able to cope with undulations in the surface - or- skinng bumps, not just competition rutlines - as an independent and very enjoyable art.
It is NOT just usual technique, carry on.
But it's too late at night, after too many lovely proseccos in favourite Chamonix bar too discuss without proper keyboard.
Sleep tight all
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't think we are really disagreeing at all - just emphasis and semantics. Certainly looking for a closer stance but things like good posture, good balance, flexing and extending to absorb the terrain, engaging the front of the skis, counter rotating to the fall line to a varying extent, making use of the terrain are all things I'm looking to do anyway. For me these are a tactical choice of which technique to use rather than a fundamental change in technique. If you have good fundamentals then bumps are easy so psychologically I think it is better to think in terms of developing good fundamental skills rather than thinking in terms of thinking there is some mysterious special technique that you have to learn for each different type of terrain. At least that is the advice from trainers that I have found the most helpful for me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Like many things you need good basic skills (balance, posture, edging, steering etc) but when the terrain is different from your usual nice freshly groomed red run (e.g. powder, bumps, steeps etc) then a few additional skills / tweaks come in useful.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@DB, for me it's the same skills. You just need to be better at them. Just a different approach to thinking about it. Whatever works for the individual though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@TTT,
So you use things like dolphin turns and jump turns on a smooth red run?
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| TTT wrote: |
| I don't think we are really disagreeing at all - just emphasis and semantics. Certainly looking for a closer stance but things like good posture, good balance, flexing and extending to absorb the terrain, engaging the front of the skis, counter rotating to the fall line to a varying extent, making use of the terrain are all things I'm looking to do anyway. For me these are a tactical choice of which technique to use rather than a fundamental change in technique. If you have good fundamentals then bumps are easy so psychologically I think it is better to think in terms of developing good fundamental skills rather than thinking in terms of thinking there is some mysterious special technique that you have to learn for each different type of terrain. At least that is the advice from trainers that I have found the most helpful for me. |
Well written 
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@DB, certainly practice those on easier terrain yes. All you are doing is developing your fundamental skills. Good solid fundamentals will get you down most places. Telling people you need some special skills creates a phycchogical block when most skiers just need better fundamentals primarily.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| TTT wrote: |
| @DB, certainly practice those on easier terrain yes. All you are doing is developing your fundamental skills. Good solid fundamentals will get you down most places. Telling people you need some special skills creates a phycchogical block when most skiers just need better fundamentals primarily. |
Maybe it's just semantics but nobody is suggesting you throw out good balance or fundamental skills for something else to ski bumps. People are asking how to ski them not just "get you down most places". e.g. You don't need to be able to do jump turns or dolphin turns to ski a red run. IMHO just improving the fundanmental skills needed to ski a groomed red run will not make you a great bump or powder skier. Understanding that to really ski all over the mountain I have to learn additional techniques to deal with different (non groomed) terrain etc works better for me. I too tried to ski bumps, steeps and powder using the exact same technique as I did for a smooth red run - it didn't work for me either.
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@kitenski, well written perhaps, but IMV wrong to say, "If you have good fundamentals then bumps are easy"
To my mind, "bumps" means this (probably best with sound off...!!)
Leisse Bumps-SD 2006 from Uann http://vimeo.com/118394482
Which I submit requires reasonable fundamentals and a bit extra technique.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, But isn't that true, with good fundamentals bumps are certainly easier than with poor fundamentals? and indeed trying to demystify them and remove psychological blocks can only be good,
Is that you in the video as that's nice bump skiing!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@kitenski, Yes, I don't think you could do them with poor fundamentals.
It is me, thanks, albeit somewhat younger - it's from 2006.
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I think we are only talking about a different way of thinking about it. For me it is easier to think in terms of staying as centred as I can everywhere. I don't have the power to change the laws of physics. I may well do dolphin type turns in bumps to keep centred but my mental trigger is keep centered not dolphin turns. If it helps someone else to think in terms of dolphin turns that is good as well. I'm a simple soul and find it easier to keep things simple.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I find listening to trainers advice works for me and most people. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@TTT, it depends on the trainer... a few years back in Wengen, the official ski school were actually teaching a very strange upper body rotation...they claimed it helped the 'one week a year' customer enjoy skiing at their level, with the clear implication that the customer would never progress much anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@TTT, i'm not sure it necessarily works for everyone...
But do you agree now that avalement is a specific technique?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@DB, thanks.
If I told the the voiceover that you had suggested she was my mum, you would be in the deepest darkest pooh. She's not my wife either. She's a rather striking and super fit 6' blonde with 36" inside legs... And no, you can't have pictures.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I love the way she shouts "keep going" as if you were going to stop and have a cup of tea and a biscuit.
PS I'm not into blondes, which is fine because there not into me either.
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@DB, i suspect she feared I was about to collapse in a small puddle of sweat and adrenalin!
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@DB, i think you need to have another look. All you are doing is applying the fundamentals of posture, balance, movements, steering and line. The laws of physics and biomechanics are the same for everyone. Intelligence and good training is taking something complicated and making it simple. Over engineering things is just unhelpful marketing to massage over inflated egos.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TTT, ok, post your vid. Of anything. I really would like to see you ski
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I don't have any skin in this game because I'm just starting out on bumps but the debate between TTT and under a new name is interesting and the only way it can be settled sensibly is for TTT to post a video of his own bumps skiing 
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FAQ
