 Poster: A snowHead
|
I think I'd pick the best ones and create an integrated business.
- Give away free nibbles at the lift queues to get people thirsty.
- Sell them a nice small drink to get them in the mood.
- Give them a voucher to save something off their first drink at a mountain bar/restaurant
- Sell them loads of drinks in a nice location
- Offer a skidoo taxi service to get them safely back down the mountain
- Stop off at the 'personal service' chalet on the way back
- Give the big spenders a posh membership card which gives them some free perks when they return
Either that or develop an app to help answer the 'where shall we eat today' question and book tables.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
OK, so this has now gathered some steam. Who holds the keys in resorts for business licences on / off the mountain?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
tmp28, in France you might be best to contact the Mairie in the commune you wish to open in. Depends on the business to be honest and whether you need premises.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
As far as I am aware there are no generic business licenses and so what licenses/permits etc you need will very much depend on the business.
A good first step would be to register your business with the chambre de commerce who will be able to point you in the direction of the relevant legislation required for your area. The chambre de commerce is a little like companies house in the UK and registration is obligatory. They are in most big cities eg for the Tarentaise area the chambre de commerce is in Chambery.
If you can let us know in general terms what sort of catagory you might need to be licensed for (eg restaurant, selling alcohol, transfer company, tour operator etc etc) I can give you an idea of the sort of legislation which might be required.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Sorry Hells Bells, - cross post - the Mairie is a good suggestion too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Thanks, it's on-mountain catering, so I'm guessing we need to get the likes of lift operators to agree as well. What's the best way of contacting them? So far, we've been going through their info / tourist office pages. Haven't been able to track down a single list of contacts yet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tmp28, if this is simply wandering around the mountain with some sort of mobile catering in competition with the existing mountain restaurants, I don't think you can expect a particularly favourable response. The mountain restos in my part of Serre Che ( not sure about Villeneuve and Chantemerle) are tendered with the local Mairie, and contracts awarded for 3 years +, bringing in competition in the middle of a contract is probably not looked upon favourably. Could you look out for an existing business which could be adapted for your needs?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| tmp28 wrote: |
| Thanks, it's on-mountain catering, so I'm guessing we need to get the likes of lift operators to agree as well. What's the best way of contacting them? So far, we've been going through their info / tourist office pages. Haven't been able to track down a single list of contacts yet. |
So, this just isn't going to work then. You will be marched off the mountain before you can blink.
If you want to run a business in the alps, buy an existing one and do it just as well, or provide a well known straightforward service and do it very well.
Make sure you know how to set up a company in the relevant country you are going to operate in and also understand all the relevant employment and taxation law. Making a business work in a foreign location is liking making one work where you know how things happen - but harder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
tmp28, I think you'll have a pretty hard time of it - launching it that is let alone making it work.
Mountain restaurants seem to fall into two camps: locals who own a building that they can cater from and they won't look kindly on some upstart trying to nick their clients or lift companies who have the exclusive (or near exclusive) licence to exploit an area.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I agree - it's all very local and even then they fight about who gets which bit of mountain to themselves. Have you heard about the Glasgow Ice Cream Wars? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
In my last season in Meribel one of the lads was keen to set up a curry delivery service. Don't think he ever got anywhere with it, but I thought given the right sort of promotion it might have worked. I think he got scared off by the whole legal minefield though. I was always surprised that, for such a party resort, Meribel had very little choice of late night food for a post-pub munch. The likes of Val d'Isere, Tignes, Les Arcs have all got a kebab shop (I spent far too much money in "Le Kebab" in 1800 over the course of 5 months in 2010....), surprised that somewhere with such a plethora of boozy Brits doesn't. I think the best you could get was a Pukka Pie from Dick's or a pizza.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
tmp28, oh dear... if one suggestion on here is warmish (i'm going for the pizza one) then that rings alarm bells to me....
Don't be so coy, it is probably worth using the collective 'wisdom'  of this lot to help you refine and develop your idea.
Don't forget that anything 'money saving' will be a no go as it will affect far too many locals.
I know quite a few other hotel and bar owners around here. Some on piste and some in the valleys. Feel free to drop me a PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hubby reckons a bacon sandwich van at the bottom of our pistes would go down a storm, I think it would go down like a lead balloon as it would be muscling in on the local (and friendly) restaurant next door to the car park where you would need to park the van to pick up trade. I think it is a great idea, but putting it into practice would be a different matter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Dav, the problem there is probably French legislation. A total nightmare from any angle: licensing, social charges, company setup, employment, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| spud wrote: |
I once looked into bringing a Cornish pasty type shop into a resort that was frequented by a lot of Brits...
My idea...something quick hot and tasty and cheap to grab anytime during the day.
Part baked...stored in freezers and baked on the premises...
I gave up...too much politics involved. |
Tignes Cuisine did cornish pasties for a season - they were supplied by a Cornish lass working for a TO. Went down very well with the Brit seasonniares. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| johnE wrote: |
| A pub that stays open all night, serves english beers, broadcasts english sports channels and only permits the speaking of english. Only English or Scottish pounds will be permitted for transactions (not sure about permitting Manx or other non UK currencies). |
With the exception of using £s (and possibly English beers), is there a resort in the Alps that doesn't have at least one of these 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| Dav, the problem there is probably French legislation. A total nightmare from any angle: licensing, social charges, company setup, employment, etc. |
Yeah, I think the guy briefly looked into it and then thought it wasn't worth the hassle, let alone the risk. And that was before he got to thinking about food hygiene regs and such like. A nice idea but in practise an unlikely venture. Fair play to those who do it though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Selling cockles in vinegar from bar to bar combined with selling roses for "the pretty lady", how could it fail?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
A mate in Courchevel set him self up as a mobile fondu service last season, no hassles at all.
He is actually from Courchevel though...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
albinomountainbadger, OP might be better doing food delivered to apartments and chalets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Hells Bells, probably but as chalets are catered most days a week I think people prefer to eat out on on the staff night off, there may not be much demand for that.
There was a guy doing curry out of La Tania, never tried him and don't know if it's still going but had a good rep. There's also an Irish lad down near Brides les Bains who does some great sausauges.
| Dav wrote: |
| I was always surprised that, for such a party resort, Meribel had very little choice of late night food for a post-pub munch. The likes of Val d'Isere, Tignes, Les Arcs have all got a kebab shop (I spent far too much money in "Le Kebab" in 1800 over the course of 5 months in 2010....), surprised that somewhere with such a plethora of boozy Brits doesn't. I think the best you could get was a Pukka Pie from Dick's or a pizza. |
That's the council, they don't want anything except fondu, meat and pizza restaurants, so certainly no cuisine that isn't obviously French, and definitely no noise, litter or odours after midnight. I think the latest mayor is still the guy who owns the bakery? I was told it was going to be him next a few years ago anyway, the ruling families just pass the honour around themselves so it's stitched up well in advance and they never change anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
albinomountainbadger, we do have a catering service in Serre Che, offering pre-prepared meals for how ever many nights you wish, although she also offers chalet catering for larger properties. Not something we've tried to be honest, although we do offer it to our guests via our apartment manager. I know our neighbours used her a couple of times when their babies were small and they didn't want to cook. The best option is the local traiteur though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
The best option is the local traiteur though
|
there are two traiteurs in Les Saisies, which is a very small resort. Difficult to imagine a French resort without one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Hells Bells, the "chef à domicile" concept where you throw a dinner party and hire a chef has become quite fashionable in France, but I'm not sure if enough Brits getting off a plane would generate the demand. People I know doing it tend to moonlight for chalet companies too.
Again, that's where anyone attempting such a thing needs considerable local knowledge. Perhaps there are lots of apartments in Serre Chevalier, but in Meribel and Courchevel, the Brits in chalets and hotels must outnumber the self-catered apartments (excluding French clients who would, of course, never order anything from a British takeaway) and if there's nothing on offer inhouse the clientele are the sort who go to a restaurant, not order in a pizza.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
albinomountainbadger, far less Brits in Serre Chevalier, so far less catered chalets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
it's on-mountain catering
|
I only know how it works our area (La Plagne) but I assume that other areas are similar.
On mountain catering is a protected business meaning that there are a limited amount of people allowed to exploit it for a given area (if you want an example of how this works look at Chemists on the internet which fall in the same catagory but nationwide in France) so to do this you would firstly need agreement from the Mairie.
The Mairie will almost always offer agreement if you are operating an existing restaurant or snack bar, selling similar food at a similar price to the person operating before you. These come up for sale from time to time and are called "fonds de commerce" - effectively you are buying the business but not the building for which you will need to pay rent. Once you have agreement you can change the menu, deco, prices etc but I would recommend doing this slowly.
Otherwise you will need to talk to them in detail about your idea to get permission - most are willing to listen to proposals but few new properties get permission because numbers are protected. For example, in the last 10 years I only know of one new (ie not taking over a previously existing place) snack bar in the whole of Paradiski opening and that is in a bit of the resort which is pretty far away from all other restaurants.
Once you have an ok then you will need to match all of the requirements either for a restaurant or for a take-away service. eg food hygiene etc - there are lists of these for normal restaurants or takeaways on the internet. A good first step on this would be doing the basic food hygiene course in france so that you have a french certificate and some basic knowledge of what is involved.
You will also need a restaurant/take-away license. As well as running your business this also lets you sell alcohol in terms of beer and wine with a meal. If you want to also sell spirits you will need a spirits license which again are protected and so you will need to look for one for sale in the region where your business is operating. Unless spirits are the main focus of your business this won't be worth doing initially - stick to the restaurant license to start with.
In order to get a restaurant license you will need to do an alcohol-serving course which takes three days and lasts for 10 years and this would be a good first step for you as well. The Mairie will be able to give you details of the nearest one to you and who runs it. Once you have completed this restaurant licenses aren't difficult to apply for and you can do this at the Mairie.
Until you have these things in place there is no point talking to the lift pass company in details unless you are planning on doing something like serving cocktails on the lifts.
One final thing to note is that you might not be aware but the reason that all of the altitude catering operates out of a premesis - even a tiny small snack bar with chairs outside - is that there are strict rules about accessing the mountain outside ski times. So, in the autumn before the snow arrives they drive up a seasons worth of drinks, frozen food, tinned and packaged food etc etc and then they just bring up on a daily/weekly basis the additional fresh ingredients which they need either with them on the lift in the morning or by skidoo depending on where the restaurant is.
If you are still serious about this idea and keen to go ahead I would recommend going to see a French accountant and talking through all of this in detail with them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Sounds like the steam gathering is going well. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Somewhere selling Cornish Pasties.... Yummy
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
How the hell do you get Yorkshire pudding to rise at altitude?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Richard_Sideways I've had Yorkshire pudding from a French gite in Serre Chevalier in summer. They used to roast a lamb in their wood-burning oven too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Hells Bells, bit of slow roast lamb from a burner, lovely; but the only thing I've ever been proffered in the guise of a yorkie is some sad, flat, beigeness that looked like someone had sat on it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Richard_Sideways, things rise easily enough - need less raising agent, usually. I've never tried to make it in the alps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Richard_Sideways, nope, these were proper well-risen airy yorkies. usually need more liquid, and yorkies don't need ANY added raising agent. Steam is what makes them rise. very hot oven. I'll take a tin with me in January and make some. Let you know what happens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Just out of curiosity Hells Bells, will you be making those yorkies earlier in the month of January? Just wondering if the earlier part of the month is better for their successful production than the latter..... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Cacciatore, probably sometime between the 11th and the 31st
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Hells Bells, Intrigued, if it's the steam what does it, the steam will be slightly cooler at altitude wont't it (?) Just Googled that indeed water boils at 95c at 1524m, so will the steam effect your rise in Yorkies?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
boredsurfin, according to our esteemed Lizzard in the guise of Dinosaur on Natives the usual recipe works fine as long as the oil is hot. It is putting the mix into the hot oil that creates the steam, so a mix at room temperature so as not to cool down the oil too much would be preferable to a mix that has been rested in the fridge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mmmmmm - all this yorkshires chat is making me hungry! Just off to rummage in the fridge and see if we have the ingredients now!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Hells Bells, interesting....from a culinary point of view....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
