 Poster: A snowHead
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feefee, if you like big areas and you don't want to try off-piste, your options are very limited. North America has no equivalent to the big interlinked mega-resorts like the 3V, Espace-Killey and Paradiski.
The biggest resorts in North America, in descending order of acreage, are Whistler, Vail and Big Sky.
I've never been to Whistler as I've been put off by high prices and tales of long queues, rain at resort level and clouds. You might get lucky, but bear these things in mind.
I've only spent one day in Vail; I skied with an old Uni friend who now lives there and who was keen to show off his new home. I wasn't impressed to be honest - I saw loads of queues, crowded pistes, an awkward, inconvenient village and unexceptional terrain.
I've been to Big Sky once, and I plan to return when the opportunity presents itself. It has endless immaculate groomed runs, a fantastic climate (loads of sun interspersed with occasional huge dumps of snow) and a complete absence of crowds. It might suit you perfectly.
If you really crave variety, an alternative is to plan a road trip. The obvious options are the Colorado resorts (pick from Vail, Breckenridge, Winter Park, Aspen, Copper Mountain, Beaver Creek, etc); the numerous Utah resorts around Salt Lake City, or the Canadian Rockies (Banff, Lake Louise, Kicking Horse, Panorama, Kimberly, Fernie, etc). Of these, the Canadian resorts will be the gnarliest and the Colorado resorts probably the most civilised.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just to counter Jonny Jones, experience. I have also only skied Vail for one day (this past wednesday), and while it was busier then Copper Mtn, Winter Park, and Beaver Creek (also this week) it was blissfully quiet. I absolutely loved the place, the back bowls and blue sky basin give endless choices for runs, and you don't need to be an expert skier to try them out. I skied the Grand Massif this January and Vail was much quiete. I am personally planning my trip to Colorado next year, and plan to stay near Vail and Beaver Creek, they appealed to me the most, and offer plenty to keep most people interested for a long trip. There are expensive sadly so looking at staying in Avon, and taking advantage of the Epic Pass.
All in my experience of course. I am told by my cousin that lives locally that this is a quiet week, just after presidents day weekend, and just before spring break starts. Also there had been no fresh snow for a few days, so if they had had a dump overnight I expect Vail could have been a lot busier?
Jon
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, thanks for that! I think? Well that's why I am asking on here, and no I had no idea that much of the skiing was off piste, although it's not quite the same as off piste in Europe is it, if it's in controlled areas then yes I'm happy with that. I like the idea of the area described as acreage rather than pisted km, I like the idea of the variation too. I thought on mountain food was shocking I parts of Italy and France but it didn't spoil the holiday, I like quieter resorts and it sounds as though most of the places recommended fit the bill, if I wanted it to replicate Europe then I would just go to Austria, but am looking forward to a change and everyone's comments have been a massive help, we will seriously start looking at the options soon as to where we think would suit us best 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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feefee, well, that's fair enough then
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feefee, it's not so much that "much of the skiing" is off piste, just that it's a long way to go to ski on a slope covered with flattened snow. Piste skiing in the US is no different to piste skiing in Europe, it's just further away.
The huge advantage is that there is a lot of controlled off piste, (and slightly different, more reliable although not guaranteed powder). There's no difference between crappy European off piste and crappy NA off piste, it's just further away, etc.
If I was planning another NA trip that wasn't for heliskiing, I think I'd like to see Jackson Hole in full swing rather than pre-season (epic powder mind you). I'd happily also go back to Utah. Maybe after a fresh fall, as opposed to a two week drought.
Bear in mind that some places aren't so easy to get to (Jackson for example or Montana) without a little dicking around in airports.
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feefee, been to about 8 canadian resortscand Just back from sun peaks in Canada. I'll write more when I've woken up properly...
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So, Sun Peaks...
feefee, I think we are a bit like you - piste skiers but like the controlled areas off-piste. check out the stats here http://www.sunpeaksresort.com/winter/mountain-stats and http://www.sunpeaksresort.com/winter/interactive-maps/alpine
We skied about 90% of the 125 runs - the ones we didn't do were the double black diamond; the single black diamonds were great - some groomers and some natural, some steep, some not so steep. I didn't have any problems with any of them and I'm just an OK skier. The glade skiing is lovely - pistes with lots of trees but "made" so that you can ski between them on narrow pistes rather than the full on off-piste type tree skiing. We skied the open bowls, picking the line to suit our level of competence. So it's not all about "flattened snow"
The snow was fab - yes I've had just as good in Europe but the real deal for me is the absolute lack of queues and people on the piste. Of my favourite Canadian resorts (Fernie, Big White, Panorama and now Sun Peaks) I can honestly say that I have rarely had to wait for a lift, and even then maybe only 10 people in front of me. The pistes are deserted - I mean seriously! At Sun Peaks we were skiing entire pistes on our own for most of the week. The only time there was anyone else on "our" bit of piste was first thing and at the end of the day when the seasonnaires get out, so yes we then had to share a piste with oh....maybe 6 people?
In the resorts I've mentioned the accommodation is centered around the "village". There aren't many lifts because each lift serves lots of runs, and all runs end up (ultimately) back in the village - so no worrying about missing the last lift to get back. The villages are quiet - no apres to speak of, just a beer in the pub at the end of the day then dinner out. There isn't much on-mountain dining - you tend to have lunch in the village. Yes there is the usual chilli, hot dogs and chowder, but in Sun Peaks we were really impressed with the independent cafes - baked potatoes, panini, amazing onion soup - plus Bottoms (pub) had a good menu which had a wider variety.
In the evenings you will be falling asleep by 9.30, then you'll be up for first lift at 8.30 - trust me!
The transfers can be long - Sun Peaks and Big White are both short internal flights then a bus, Fernie & Panorama are about 4 hours by bus. We were travelling for 23 hours on the way out as the internal flight was delayed, better journey back - I slept most of the way. You don't need a car for these resorts - nowhere to go!
I've also been to Banff for Sunshine and Lake Louise - great skiing, great town but I'm over having to take a 45 minute bus ride to get to the skiing.
We went to Whistler years ago - it rained - but we weren;t good enough skiers to get the best from it.
On the East coast we've been to Tremblant, Stoneham & Mont Ste Anne (all Quebec) - All OK in their way but I prefer the west coast. We've also been to Breckenridge in Colorado - similar to the Canadian resorts but with more groomers.
We use Ski Independence or Frontier Ski generally - both with do a deal to price match if they can. Our Sun Peaks week was £1350 each - that was for return flights London - Vancouver - Kamloops, transfer, 7 nights room only (King Size bed - no under occupancy supplements), 6 day lift pass. We had to pay ski carriage on top (should have been £45 each way per ski bag but Air Canada forgot to charge for the return!) . We went with Frontier this time as Independence couldn't match the room rate for the week we needed, also Frontier was including a lounge at Heathrow which was a nice extra.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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holidayloverxx, thank you so much that's really helpful! We are definately going just not sure exactly where yet, got lots of research to do thanks to you guys
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feefee, don't let under a new name discourage you. It's easier to get to North America than you might be led to believe, and, if you choose your resort wisely, on-piste skiing there will be blissful - quiet, queue free and immaculately groomed. The food might not be up to yhe best Alpine standards, but your accommodation will be twice the size as compensation.
Make sure you look seriously at Big Sky.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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North American skiing isnt for everyone, and planning a trip can be daunting for some - but to ski varied terrain with relatively safety and usually with civilised lift queues is great - along with deep fresh powder, its a big incentive.
Have been skiing endless fresh tracks in 14+ inches of powder today too 
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The biggest resorts in North America, in descending order of acreage, are Whistler, Vail and Big Sky.
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You missed one between Whistler and the US resorts - Everyone thinks Vail or Big Sky is the biggest US resort, even most Americans - some even think The Canyons is the largest - the hype of marketing is fantastic sometimes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bones, dont keep us in suspense...
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It's easier to get to North America than you might be led to believe
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But still a long flight, esp. to centre / West coast.
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quiet, queue free and immaculately groomed
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Like Italy?
I'm not trying to put anyone off, just adding a little realism. I'm not anti-NA skiing - I've skied 12 NA resorts over a variety of trips and would like to think I'll be heading over again.
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| There's no difference between crappy European off piste and crappy NA off piste, it's just further away, etc. |
Wrong!
The biggest difference is, you need not worry about being burried by avalanche skiing the "crappy" NA off piste (within ski area boundry)!!!
In other words, you don't need to pay extra for a guide to ski off-piste in North America. That alone, makes up for the cost of the trans-atlantic flight!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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i ski a week in Europe and 10/11 nights in North America each year and love them both! The journey is always part of my holiday so is never a problem for me!
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Poster: A snowHead
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The biggest difference is, you need not worry about being burried by avalanche skiing the "crappy" NA off piste (within ski area boundry)!!!
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I have to say I find this a hard concept to follow. Can someone explain to me how you can ensure a whole mountain side will be ava free? And if it can be done in NA why it can't be done in Europe?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Layne wrote: |
What's it like going to US or Canada at Christmas and new year prices, busyness wise?
I presume it's very cold? Is it better to go later in the season? |
Busy?
You're asking about a pretty large bit of the world there. I've ridden knee deep fresh powder on piste all day closer to Vancouver than Whistler at Xmas, and they've never seen another Brit. On the other hand Whistler will get very busy for a day or two as the Vancouver population mixes with the tourists.
Cold? Well not in New Mexico particularly, or in Whistler, where you're more likely to suffer rain than minus 30 (although you do get that now and then too). Alberta has a reputation for cold temperatures, and early season is colder generally than later....
The whole piste/ off piste thing works differently; I would have thought that had been done to death here but maybe not. You can ride anywhere inside the resort boundary. You may be able to legally ride outside, but you're on your own and it's patrolled - that is the equivalent of European "off piste". Inside the resort, it's one big playground and you can ride anywhere. The terrain in North America tends to be different from Europe, with the tree line and other things not working the same way. Whatever, in a resort like Whistler they will open the *lifts* up one by one as they clear the avalanche risk. They may sometimes close pistes, or in-bounds off-piste (see above), but mostly they clear the risk and then that area is open.
As far as costs are concerned... tour operator total prices are usually cheaper than the cost of scheduled flights alone, so if you can tolerate the herd thing and/ or price is your issue then that's likely an easy decision for you. Personally I'd rather poke my eye out, but each to their own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I just want to throw tree well cautions into the mix for those venturing to NA. Big powder and glades= tree well risk.
http://www.deepsnowsafety.org/index.php/
Sadly, this post was inspired by a friend.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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philwig,
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You may be able to legally ride outside, but you're on your own and it's patrolled - that is the equivalent of European "off piste".
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I think there may be a 'not' missing?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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philwig, can you advise which tour operators you use as I have never been able to find any cheaper than doing it myself (except for Whistler) and I would like to be able to look into next years with them - thanks.
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philwig,
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Busy?
You're asking about a pretty large bit of the world there. I've ridden knee deep fresh powder on piste all day closer to Vancouver than Whistler at Xmas, and they've never seen another Brit. On the other hand Whistler will get very busy for a day or two as the Vancouver population mixes with the tourists. |
Of course we are talking a large area. But I was wondering if it was the same as in Europe i.e., pre-christmas cheap and quiet, christmas week pricier but not too bad, new year very busy and expensive. I know it's a generalisation but was wondering if it was the same over the pond.
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Cold? Well not in New Mexico particularly, or in Whistler, where you're more likely to suffer rain than minus 30 (although you do get that now and then too). Alberta has a reputation for cold temperatures, and early season is colder generally than later.... |
OK, ta.
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The whole piste/ off piste thing works differently; I would have thought that had been done to death here but maybe not. You can ride anywhere inside the resort boundary. You may be able to legally ride outside, but you're on your own and it's patrolled - that is the equivalent of European "off piste". Inside the resort, it's one big playground and you can ride anywhere. The terrain in North America tends to be different from Europe, with the tree line and other things not working the same way. Whatever, in a resort like Whistler they will open the *lifts* up one by one as they clear the avalanche risk. They may sometimes close pistes, or in-bounds off-piste (see above), but mostly they clear the risk and then that area is open. |
I know how it works but how they "clear the avalanche risk". I mean in Europe the try to make the area safe but they can't cover the whole mountain and especially off piste there is a limit to what they can do. Is the terrain different? How can they make every nook and cranny safe?
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| As far as costs are concerned... tour operator total prices are usually cheaper than the cost of scheduled flights alone, so if you can tolerate the herd thing and/ or price is your issue then that's likely an easy decision for you. Personally I'd rather poke my eye out, but each to their own. |
I DIY traveling in general providing it is less (hopefully) or not significantly more but I get something tailored. But I would suffer TO if it gets me near to what I want for significantly less.
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Layne, ski independence and frontier ski do tailored. Not sure what philwig is getting at re the 'herd'. All of my NA trips have been TO and I have never been aware if anyone else travelling on the same trip except for the transfer and those folk have never been seen again till the return transfer. So no different to DIY except it's always worked out cheaper with the TO.
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I know how it works but how they "clear the avalanche risk". I mean in Europe the try to make the area safe but they can't cover the whole mountain and especially off piste there is a limit to what they can do. Is the terrain different? How can they make every nook and cranny safe?
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They avalanche control the whole in bounds area. Its not a perfectly exact science and I would say every other year there may be one in bounds in the whole of Canada; there was one in Fernie and Big White since we have been here in 6 years.
So they (and I have experienced all these):
drop bombs with helicopters
have great big guns they fire
bomb using skiers
assess risk and close off areas
have avalanche signs
Suspect they may have a couple of other tricks
Tree wells kill more in bounds than out of bounds avalanches in US; so if skiing in bounds that's the real risk you need to educate for
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Ps, the entire in bounds area is ski patrolled. Meaning they patrol and will rescue. Step out of bounds and it the RCMP who have responsibility
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| Layne wrote: |
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The biggest difference is, you need not worry about being burried by avalanche skiing the "crappy" NA off piste (within ski area boundry)!!!
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I have to say I find this a hard concept to follow. Can someone explain to me how you can ensure a whole mountain side will be ava free? And if it can be done in NA why it can't be done in Europe? |
Now you understand why N America resorts are much smaller than many of the European resorts, yet the lift pass cost a fair bit more? 
If Europe does what NA does, the lift ticket would probably cost 5 times more!
So, anyone still want to cross the pond just to ski on piste?
| Layne wrote: |
| I know how it works but how they "clear the avalanche risk". I mean in Europe the try to make the area safe but they can't cover the whole mountain and especially off piste there is a limit to what they can do. Is the terrain different? How can they make every nook and cranny safe? |
Sure you can. It just takes more man power (and gun powder).
After a big snow fall, it may take many hours, sometimes a couple days, before all sectors of the resort to open. It's not uncommon to be skiing in one part of the mountain and hear bomb blast on other part of the mountain.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gryphea, abc, thanks for that. I understand how it works now and the upsides/downsides. It seems there is a more stark or definite boundary between the resort and what they take responsibility for and what is out of bounds/back country, etc. And a result of that some pros and cons. Can't really say what I would prefer having never experienced the NA model. If indeed a preference could be made. Perhaps they are both good in their own way.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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philwig, can you advise which tour operators you use as I have never been able to find any cheaper than doing it myself (except for Whistler) and I would like to be able to look into next years with them - thanks.
I can't / don't - I always do my own thing, I'm not herdable. However I often see headline prices which are less than the price of my AC/BA flights to YVR each year, hence I guess their total prices are cheaper than mine. I also assume that it must be cheaper, else why would you want to go on a "tour" 
For sure for what I do I need scheduled flights and control over my itinerary, and for that I don't need a tour operator who naturally knows less about what I'm doing than I do.
On time of year, it's not too dissimilar to Europe if you go to "destination" places, like Whistler. Most of the customers aren't locals, so they behave en-masse the same as herds of tourists do in Europe. Hence it is busier in holiday periods. You can get a feel for that by looking at how Tour Operator prices vary with time: when it's expensive is when it's busy.
Exception 1: in my experience Americans like to spend xmas at home more than some nationalities, so there are fewer of them about at xmas. You will always therefore find me in a helicopter at xmas, because... it's the cheapest time of year, because the rich Americans aren't there. There are other advantages not relevant here.
Exception 2: if you go somewhere with a large local population, like Denver of Vancouver, then it will get busy on holidays with local traffic. In Vancouver people tend to stay home on xmas day but they'll be there on Boxing day. This is all less of an issue in North America as they have good lift capacity and civilized queues. However you can get a high density of people on piste at the peak, which is why places like Whistler have "speed cops" to ensure people don't kill each other. It's not really a big deal.
But it's way better to go anywhere when it's quiet...
Avalanches... I'm not sure how the statistics actually stack up, but the ski resorts association of the US publishes their data and I suspect their death rates due to avalanche are less than the Alps because the terrain is generally different. So more trees, less "Alpine", in general, with multiple notable exceptions. But I don't know the European stats, although I know how easy it is to die here. If it helps you could think of it like.... "If you get hurt at an American resort, someone's going to get sued, so they tend to take care of you". I'm don't know if it's safer or not, but it feels pretty darned safe. I guess your chances of getting shot on piste are higher in the US: not sure if those stats are recorded.
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holidayloverxx, + 1 regarding TO trips / costs etc. Always been very happy with the price and again always had the feeling it was just us on our own trip i.e. no herds!
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You know it makes sense.
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I've only once been able to match the DIY price by travelling with a TO to North America. One travel agent literally laughed out loud last year when I asked if she could match my DIY price to Jackson Hole. That's for a family of five travelling in the school holidays, though. YMMV.
Check out the specialist agents for a cheap DIY trip. They're not really TOs, as they'll let you buy any part of the trip from them including, for example, just ski hire or car rental. I've used Ski Independence and American Ski Classics before, bu there are others in the game.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Layne wrote: |
| It seems there is a more stark or definite boundary between the resort and what they take responsibility for and what is out of bounds/back country, etc. And a result of that some pros and cons. Can't really say what I would prefer having never experienced the NA model. If indeed a preference could be made. Perhaps they are both good in their own way. |
Exactly.
Some may prefer one or the other. I like them both. Just need to be in the right mindset.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| abc wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| It seems there is a more stark or definite boundary between the resort and what they take responsibility for and what is out of bounds/back country, etc. And a result of that some pros and cons. Can't really say what I would prefer having never experienced the NA model. If indeed a preference could be made. Perhaps they are both good in their own way. |
Exactly.
Some may prefer one or the other. I like them both. Just need to be in the right mindset. |
I'm not sure how it could possible be a disadvantage for 'off-piste' areas to be avalanche controlled and swept at the end of each day. By that measure, the American model is better - although it's not unheard of in Europe. St Foy has extensive areas of avvy-controlled territory in the North American style, for example.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| It seems there is a more stark or definite boundary between the resort and what they take responsibility for and what is out of bounds/back country, etc. And a result of that some pros and cons. Can't really say what I would prefer having never experienced the NA model. If indeed a preference could be made. Perhaps they are both good in their own way. |
Exactly.
Some may prefer one or the other. I like them both. Just need to be in the right mindset. |
I'm not sure how it could possible be a disadvantage for 'off-piste' areas to be avalanche controlled and swept at the end of each day. By that measure, the American model is better - although it's not unheard of in Europe. St Foy has extensive areas of avvy-controlled territory in the North American style, for example. |
The disadvantage of avi control is the cost and the time to get it done. So all the places that does full sector avi control are considerably smaller.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've been skiing at many places on the east coast & west coast, but only once in Canada.
From my experience..Whistler was amazing, but when we went (~8 years ago) it was the best snow they'd had in a long time.
If you're looking for variety, i'd highly recommend Park City. You have 3 resorts within a few minutes of each other (Deer Valley, Park City, & The Canyons) and if you rent a car or take a bus you have the option of about 10 other resorts.
I've been to almost every resort in that area and absolutely have a few favorites (Brighton & Snowbird). Anymore specifics feel free to ask. I'm not a phenomenal skier but manage to get down anything, haha.
Oh, and if you're going to fly to North America to ski, i'd definitely not ski on the east coast. I live here...and do it enough...but the difference between east and west coast is astronomical.
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Jonny Jones, me and my missus skied St Foy last year and said it was the most similar to a US resort we have found in Europe. Terrific little place.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| nickr wrote: |
| holidayloverxx, + 1 regarding TO trips / costs etc. Always been very happy with the price and again always had the feeling it was just us on our own trip i.e. no herds! |
+1 too, the plane is full of other people but it is a schedule service so no different if booked by ones self; very little extra cost to add a private transfer very cheap if there are a few of you traveling - but the bus is less crowded than the plane and no hanging about. I think the biggest "group" was 7 in the bus we have ever had.
Never seen a rep over there in Whistler, tickets for everything in the room waiting - with a phone number if you need some help. Everyone speaks a form of English so easy to sort everything out.
Much less hassle and no pressure or herding that can be avoided
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The presence of TO varies by resort. At the larger resorts there can well be a FT rep in resort, but in other cases the UK TO subcontracts guest management to a local person/company. I've personally had no problem with either arrangement in the past; but now I tend to sort things myself.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 10-03-14 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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Si, Indeed there can be a rep in resort, but if you don't need them then you never know they are there..apart from they put a note under your door the night before you leave as a reminder!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stuarth, it was unbelievable here and this weekend looks like I'm going to get rained on at Kicking Hrose
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FAQ
