 Poster: A snowHead
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valais2, please take a look at my review of this product: http://wintertyrereviews.co.uk/vredestein-quatrac-3/ , there have now been a few pieces of customer feedback too. The Quatrac 3 is a really good halfway house product, you get winter performance which is up there with some of the top full winter tyres and summer grip which is far better than a standard winter but not quite as good as a full summer tyre.
I make the comment about Germany in my post, but all-seasons have really taken off over there since winter tyres became mandatory.
Personally if I was just driving in the UK then I would certainly use the Quatrac 3, however as most people here are going to be driving in the Alps then I would really still suggest full winter like you use currently. This way you have the absolute right thing for the job and certainly the safest option.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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tyremen,
Do you tend to offer the same winter tyre size as the summer tyres already on the vehicle or do you offer narrower wheel & tyre sizes (approved by the manufacturer) as is often the case in central Europe?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi DB, yes we follow the European model of supplying a smaller wheel and tyre set for winter wherever possible. This helps keep the cost down and improves winter traction as it's a case of the narrower the better for winter!
Phill
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alex_heney, thanks but I did mean before - with this referring to the winter tyres and steel rims (tyres mounted) , before they go on and after they have been stored for the summer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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tyremen, thanks - was worried i was missing something, but apparently not.
Re narrower section, we move from 205 55 16 summer to 195 65 15 winters but only with the proviso that this narrower section and smaller diameter (with higher profile section) does not throw the speedo out by more than 10pc over (which is the legal tolerance I understand):
"...The UK law is based on the EU standard, with some minor changes. A speedo must never show less than the actual speed, and must never show more than 110% of actual speed + 6.25mph. So if your true speed is 40mph, your speedo could legally be reading up to 50.25mph but never less than 40mph. Or to put it another way, if your speedo is reading 50mph, you won’t be doing more than 50mph but it’s possible you might actually only be travelling at 40mph.
To ensure that they comply with the law and make sure that their speedometers are never showing less than true speed under any foreseeable circumstances, car manufacturers will normally deliberately calibrate their speedos to read ‘high’ by a certain amount. As your satnav is not the designated device by which a car’s speed is measured, it does not need to incorporate any fudge factoring..."
Re the narrower section and smaller diameter etc due to insurance issues we only use the smaller size (and same offset measurement) which is manufacturers' standard fitment on other models of our car - we have a touran SE which comes with 205 16 alloys but the base models have 195 15 - so that's OK with the insurance company. I understand that some companies really object and withdraw cover if the wheels are not absolutely the same as those routinely fitted by the manufacturer to the model of car. UK insurers seem SO SLOW to adapt to the winter tyre thing - which means that cover can be withdrawn for fitting something which actually objectively reduces the chances of accident. Madness.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| we move from 205 55 16 summer to 195 65 15 winters but only with the proviso that this narrower section and smaller ]diameter (with higher profile section) |
Which if you put those sizes into a size comparison site corresponds to a change of about 0.5% in revolutions per mile. Unless you are driiving really on the edge such a change is IMO negligable.
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| I understand that some companies really object and withdraw cover if the wheels are not absolutely the same as those routinely fitted by the manufacturer to the model of car. |
If you check the tyre sizes in most car handbooks they will tell you the recommended winter wheel/tyre combination. No insurer has grounds to object if you stick to the manufacturer's recommendations and there is a well-publicised list of insurance companies who do/do not want to be notified if you fit winter tyres - just google it.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| alex_heney, thanks but I did mean before - with this referring to the winter tyres and steel rims (tyres mounted) , before they go on and after they have been stored for the summer. |
Ah. I didn't realise you meant you had the tyres already mounted and were just doing it before putting on the car 
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The UK law is based on the EU standard, with some minor changes. A speedo must never show less than the actual speed, and must never show more than 110% of actual speed + 6.25mph.
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I'm not sure where you quoted that from, but it isn't technically quite right - it is 110% + 2.4mph (4kph) rather than the 6.25mph (10kph) that quote suggests.
When first implemented, the EU directive did say 10kph, but that was changed within a few months to 4kph, and the current UK law just references the directive for that value, rather than specifying it absolutely.
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Ahh but when do we swap? Who will blink first, who will be driving on through? And who will be the old stick In the mud...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| harrim51 wrote: |
| Ahh but when do we swap? Who will blink first, who will be driving on through? And who will be the old stick In the mud... |
I usually swap once I have had 3-4 mornings in a row with the temperature below 8C.
Which usually means late November or early December.
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| harrim51 wrote: |
| Ahh but when do we swap? Who will blink first |
I'll be swapping on 20th October, as the following weekend will be our first run out to the Alps this year and I expect (hope for!) snow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have just made an appointment to have my summer tyres swopped for the winter ones on 10th October. Bit later than last year but I was distinctly unhappy driving home on the autobahn last night in monsoon-like rain storms and cold roads. It will at least guarantee that the est of October is an Indian summer though! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I may be swapping sooner than the mid-November planned, as my front two summer tyres are almost worn up (advisory on todays MOT), and I'd rather wait until spring to get new ones.
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My MOT is due at the start of October. I usually sling the winter tyres/wheels in the back and get them swapped when I have the MOT done.
Car gets serviced once a year in the spring - summer tyres/wheels go back on then.
RobW has it spot on. Look in the handbook and you will see the manufacturers recommended winter tyre specification (205/55 16 for me whereas summer is 225/45 17). So long as you fit those you are using the recommended specification so I can't see an issue with insurers (and I work for one - non motor though).
Circumference difference is less than 1%
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You know it makes sense.
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we just went winter.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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When doing a size conversion we try to keep things within 2.5%, 10% as quoted above is far too much!
However the suggested change of 205/55R16 to 195/65R15 is spot on!
Insurance companies are more used to such a change these days although it's still important to get things right as to not invalidate insurance/warranty. We import all our wheels (steel & alloy) from mainland Europe where after-market automotive parts have to go through an approval process (TUV). We can therefore supply certificates to prove that what we have supplied is tested for suitability on the vehicle in question.
There are plenty of cheap Chinese wheels out there that will be cheaper but they will never have such approval.
Essentially though if you copy what the vehicle manufacturer does on the base models then you can't go far wrong.
I think it's fair to say that I know my stuff when it comes to wheels, tyre size conversions and the like. Fell free to ask me anything related to this if you're stuck.
Phill.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tyremen wrote: |
Essentially though if you copy what the vehicle manufacturer does on the base models then you can't go far wrong.
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In most cases yes, but a larger diesel engine will need a tyre with a higher load index than a smaller petrol engine. (e.g. Ford Focus 1.0 Petrol v 2.0 diesel). This can mean a wider tyre. Best to compare to the base model of the car with the same engine type / engine size.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 20-09-13 15:34; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi All,
I'm probably going to venture in to the world of winter tyres for a trip to the alps (getting too expensive to fly now  ).
I think I'd prefer to put on a set of steel wheels (I guess chains if I use them would destroy alloys) ?
I seem to recall reading somewhere that you shouldn't use the bolts that are with the alloys - is this right ?
Do new bolts generaly get supplied or not ?
And I'm having trouble figuring out what size wheels are appropriate for my car.
I've got a 2012 Avensis Estate TR (215/55R17 w94).
Now the tyremen site suggests 205/60/R16 - I take it this is correct, but I thought after reading above, that it should be a narrower wheel ?
Thanks for any help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes the nuts are different - always got these from the winter tyre supplier.
205 is narrower than 215.
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205 is narrower than 215.
<oh>
I can only think I didn't have my glasses on
Thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've just got a great deal from Phill (tyremen) on a set of factory 'take-off' alloys with TS850's. Apparently when many new cars are ordered with upgraded alloys (VAG badged ones in this case) they're still imported with the standard wheels & then the UK distributor then swaps the wheels. The standard 'as new with just delivery mileage' alloys are then snapped up by Phill. So I'll soon have what is effectively a brand new set of factory 16" alloys identical to that which will be delivered on my new car in a few weeks time for £375 (exc tyres) which is very competitive with aftermarket alloys & an absolute bargain compared to the £200+ per rim that they cost new from a VAG dealer.
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Phill has done me the same sort of deal on a set of 18in alloys for my Audi A5 ... but at a fraction of the cost if bought from Audi. It made buying a second set of wheels for winter tyres a no-brainer.
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I ran Goodyear UltraGrip 7+ on my old Megane last year, excellent grip on snow and ice. No noticable loss of grip in summer against the all year Pirellis I had on it, so just left them on to see how long I'd get out of them. Fronts managed 50,000 (mostly motorway) rears managed another 10,000 before needing replacement. No real increase in noise levels either. Extremely happy with them!
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Tyremen - any thoughts on the General Grabber AT2 as an occasional snow tyre?
My Defender is currently running BF Goodrich Mud Terrainss, which are lethal (unsurprisingly) on compacted snow, as I discovered in London last year as I slid round corners and down hills after minimal snowfall.
An offroad tyre place have recommended the General Grabber AT2 as good for low temperature work and compacted snow - not as good as a dedicated snow tyre, but good enough for all-round use in the Alps over a season. They also can fit them for £110 a corner, which seems reasonable - but obviously useless if they are not fit for purpose. To confuse matters, the AT2 apparently have the snowflake symbol, meaning that they are winter rated. Obviously, while in France, I want a tyre that is legal to use in winter, rather than be forced to use chains/change my tyres...
What do you think? Any thought and quotes for fitment of a good tyre would be appreciated. I will post the size of my current tyres after checking them this evening.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've a Skoda Superb estate on 18" alloys (tyres 225 40 R18). Would people recommend getting spare wheels as well as winter tyres to avoid damaging the summer alloys (or is it not really a problem)? Looking at the reviews I fancy something like the Conti 830Ps. My summer tyres are Conti Sportcontact 2s which seem to offer good rim protection. Does anyone have the 830Ps on alloys - do they give any protection to the rims - I'm supposing that has a bearing on whether spare wheels is a good way to go?
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gbium, A spare set of rims is ideal & steel rims are inexpensive but look shoite. Give Phill a call to see if he can do some VAG take-off alloys for your car like myself & Duncan have done as they'll still have excellent residual value if you change wheel sizes in the future. This is my first venture in to winter tyres but I've loads of customers who regularly drive to the alps & wheel damage is not apparently a factor, especially if you go for a taller tyre profile. AFAIK the 830's have been replaced by the 850's.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gbium, I have a different car with exactly the same tyre specs as yours, and have driven with winter tyres on the original rims for the past 4 winters. It was a FWD car, but I've recently changed to a 4WD estate (still with the same tyres specs). It never caused any problems. There were no issues with the rims and the driving on (steep) mountain passes in Germany, France and the Czech Republic all despatched with complete ease over unsalted, iced and pretty slippery surfaces (demonstrated by myself to all and sundry when I hopped out of the car after a steep climb and slipped over immediately). Just keep the rims clean when you come down the mountain ie. spray the salt off them when home. As I said, no rim problems and perfectly reliable when driven sensibly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Old Skool and spyderjon - cheers, I'll probably go for just the tyres option. Time for a PM to tyremen I think. Out of interest though I saw an offer on some Avon Ice Touring and they seem to get some decent reviews - anyone had any experience of them?
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gbium, I have Avon Ice Touring 225/55/17 on my Allroad. Grip is excellent and however bad the conditions I never need chains (though I do have 4wd). Also wearing better mile for mile than my summer tyres, and road noise is not bad either.
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You know it makes sense.
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Harry Flashman,
I had AT2's on my discovery and IMHO they were not as good as all season tyres on my 2wd citroen. Mind you I didn't actually get stuck in them but plenty of squeky bum moments.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks emvmarine, very useful - I am not up for squeaky bum moments in a Land Rover, descending winter Alpine roads in the dark. Will go all-season/winter.
Tyremen (andanyone) - tyre size on my Defender is 265/75R/16, on ZU alloy wheels. What would you recommend as a proper winter/compacted snow tyre for a Land Rover Defender 90 for the Alps, that will need to do some motorway work too on the continent (and so deal with wet, rather than just snow/ice conditions as well)?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Harry Flashman, getting winter/all-season tyres in that size is going to be seriously tricky! What year defender is it? I'll get my thinking cap on for you!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Harry Flashman,
It's in German but this might help
http://www.rezulteo-reifen.at/winterreifen-rubrik
Click "Nach PKW" and select from the drop down lists the details that match your car.
e.g. For a Land Rover Defender 90, 2.5 Diesel 1990 it comes up with
205 80 R16 99Q
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| tyremen wrote: |
| Hi Harry Flashman, getting winter/all-season tyres in that size is going to be seriously tricky! What year defender is it? I'll get my thinking cap on for you! |
Hi tyremen - it's a 2004 Defender Td5...
I don't need the width though - narrower would be fine (especially for hard pack) - it's the rolling radius that's important!
help appreciated, especially if you stock something suitable...
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Thanks Harry Flashman, I don't suppose you could just double check your existing tyre size for me? My tech data doesn't show any of the variants on that size as standard?
Phill
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have a 2006 Skoda Octavia Elegance hatchback, tyre size 205-55-16, wheels 6.5 J, ET50. Will steel wheels supplied by Skoda for a 2011 Superb Elegance estate, tyre size same as mine but with an ET of 45 fit my car? And will I be able to fit chains to these if required? [don't know the J size]
Thanks
Robert
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Thanks Harry Flashman, that actually leaves me with a number of questions that could be a bit epic to answer here. If you get a mo meybe you could give us a call here and we can discuss further. Cheers Phill - 08456 807 808
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi Robert Hardy, yes they would be absolutely fine and would take a chain too.
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Hi...I have used Effiplus Epluto winter tyres for the last two seasons ..they are cheap Asian tyres but I can't fault them either in the Alps(for a month) or going over some snow covered roads in the Jura..they had a good test in S Yorkshire as well where the roads were equally as bad last winter...have a look in http://www.tyretest.com/wintercar_tyres/effiplus/epluto_i/index.html
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FAQ
