 Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
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Something an ESF mate pointed out that snowboard instructors also have to pass the Eurotest so if you start as a boarder it is almost impossible to be an instructor in France which is really something to moan about!
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That's interesting. Maybe it explains why some of the French snowboard instructors I see might be top class skiers but are pretty average boarders.... I had a snowboard lesson from a guy whom I know to be a brilliant ski instructor, and a great chap, but even I, as a beginner (but having the McNab book and DVD) realised he was not really up to it as a snowboard instructor - my son was much better (and cheaper!). |
Speed test is also fairly irrelevant when you want freestyle lessons, which a greater number of punters (or their kids at any rate) would arguably ask for over gate training.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TTT wrote: |
| ...and as if by magic it has been confirmed that there are different regulations for working in different countries but the requirements for Brits working in France are the same as locols working in France. |
That is not the point as far as fair competition as defined by the Single European Market directives is concerned. It is not given to member states to define arbitrary standards that are discriminatory in practice to foreigners. The "10 ISTD raised in the French system to employ trainee" rule - which was the point raised in the OP - would appear to be that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Something an ESF mate pointed out that snowboard instructors also have to pass the Eurotest so if you start as a boarder it is almost impossible to be an instructor in France which is really something to moan about!
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That's interesting. Maybe it explains why some of the French snowboard instructors I see might be top class skiers but are pretty average boarders.... I had a snowboard lesson from a guy whom I know to be a brilliant ski instructor, and a great chap, but even I, as a beginner (but having the McNab book and DVD) realised he was not really up to it as a snowboard instructor - my son was much better (and cheaper!). |
Speed test is also fairly irrelevant when you want freestyle lessons, which a greater number of punters (or their kids at any rate) would arguably ask for over gate training. |
It would be interesting if alternatives to the speed test were offered - freeride comp set-up, you've got to get within 10% of what Thovex would score... Obviously will never happen, and would be a ridiculous requirement, but probably more applicable given freeride/freestyle is more popular than racing these days!
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I appreciate this is a really sensitive subject with personal vested interests and really see that there are legimate arguments on both sides. In practise many lower level instructors are perfectly capable of delivering a good product to lower level skiers and the level of instructor should vary with the level of the client as under the UK system. It is also true though that many occupations are regulated by qualifications to maintain standards and that higher qualified instructors are higher standard skiers and as a result of their higher training and experience are able to offer higher quality instruction. I'm not saying that they always do! Generally though a level 4 is better than a level 3 and so on. Yes France is more restrictive on lower level instructors than other countries but as result it makes more sense for Europeans to invest in achieving a high level of skiing and instructor training. As noted elsewhere Austria employs a lot more lower standard instructors from overseas as there is a lot lower financial incentive for locals to train to become an instructor. The overall level of European instruction would be lower if it was not for the French system as there would not be such an incentive to reach the highest level. In some sense the system works at an overall European level as you can start in Austria as a lower level with lower wages, then move to Switzerland at a higher level with higher wages and then on to France. An ISTD will argue for the French system because they have trained hard, reached a high standard of skiing and instructing and can make a decent living. Lower level instructors will complain that it restricts their ability to give perfectly good lessons to lower level skiers but then they also invariably complain about the low wages! Generally a free market is good but also qualifications are good to protect consumers and improve standards. If you don't believe me then consider the disasterous consequences of the lightly regulated European fiancce markets.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TTT, I guess I can agree with much of that.
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Generally a free market is good but also qualifications are good to protect consumers and improve standards.
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A free market and a system of qualifications are not mutually exclusive of course.
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| disasterous consequences of the lightly regulated European fiancce markets |
I shouldn't really get into this, but there is a point of view that the financial markets were subject to quite stringent regulation: to the point where no one saw the wood for the trees.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Something an ESF mate pointed out that snowboard instructors also have to pass the Eurotest so if you start as a boarder it is almost impossible to be an instructor in France which is really something to moan about!
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That's interesting. Maybe it explains why some of the French snowboard instructors I see might be top class skiers but are pretty average boarders.... I had a snowboard lesson from a guy whom I know to be a brilliant ski instructor, and a great chap, but even I, as a beginner (but having the McNab book and DVD) realised he was not really up to it as a snowboard instructor - my son was much better (and cheaper!). |
Speed test is also fairly irrelevant when you want freestyle lessons, which a greater number of punters (or their kids at any rate) would arguably ask for over gate training. |
It would be interesting if alternatives to the speed test were offered - freeride comp set-up, you've got to get within 10% of what Thovex would score... Obviously will never happen, and would be a ridiculous requirement, but probably more applicable given freeride/freestyle is more popular than racing these days! |
There's one born every minute, if you bothered to look at the numbers freeride+freestyle are completely insignificant compared to racing!
Good technical skiing has many similarities to ski racing, good freeride scores and freestyle bare little or no resemblance.
Oh BTW I ski steep freeride for personal fun not a piste 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Austria you can get work at a lower level but can't make a decent livng
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But only because the fat cat owners cream off the profits, presumably? Why don't Austrian instructors get together and run a co-operative style ski school, like the French do? |
The big money (really big money) is for sure in owning a school. As I've said before though, I know several (full) Landeslehrer and Staatliche (top level) instructors who make a proper living from teaching. Outside the main season, the Staatliches are often able to earn extra money running instructor courses on the glaciers, which I think is pretty well paid. The one's I know also have have summer jobs - raft guiding, mountain bike guiding, etc (I assume most French instructors also have to work in the summer), some teaching skiing in the southern hemisphere. Bergfuehrers (mountain guides) also earn well.
It's quite possible a higher proportion of French instructors earn a 'proper wage' from it though, I have no idea.
I've no idea of the requirements needed to set up a school, though I've heard things like having to 'own' a 'meeting place' in resort - but that could either be false, or local rules in one place. I've no idea what you need to do to operate as an independant instructor, though I know several independant guides (some who also offer instruction).
There is no lack of competition in most places though, whether that's from a Brit-run school or not is pretty irrelevant. Something like 8 or 9 ski schools operating in Saalbach, for instance.
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As to the Eurotest, it's clearly not discriminatory, as everyone has to pass to teach in France. I do think it's bloody stupid and irrelevant though (if it was truly about safety, a freeride-type set-up where terrain management is crucial would make much more sense). Where the discrimination comes in, is if only French qualified instructors are allowed to make up the 10 trainers - given top level Brit, Austrian, French, Italian etc instructors all hold equal qualifications.
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| Idris wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Something an ESF mate pointed out that snowboard instructors also have to pass the Eurotest so if you start as a boarder it is almost impossible to be an instructor in France which is really something to moan about!
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That's interesting. Maybe it explains why some of the French snowboard instructors I see might be top class skiers but are pretty average boarders.... I had a snowboard lesson from a guy whom I know to be a brilliant ski instructor, and a great chap, but even I, as a beginner (but having the McNab book and DVD) realised he was not really up to it as a snowboard instructor - my son was much better (and cheaper!). |
Speed test is also fairly irrelevant when you want freestyle lessons, which a greater number of punters (or their kids at any rate) would arguably ask for over gate training. |
It would be interesting if alternatives to the speed test were offered - freeride comp set-up, you've got to get within 10% of what Thovex would score... Obviously will never happen, and would be a ridiculous requirement, but probably more applicable given freeride/freestyle is more popular than racing these days! |
There's one born every minute, if you bothered to look at the numbers freeride+freestyle are completely insignificant compared to racing!
Good technical skiing has many similarities to ski racing, good freeride scores and freestyle bare little or no resemblance.
Oh BTW I ski steep freeride for personal fun not a piste |
But where is the growth in the ski markets, from what I can see it's all about wider/lighter skis and burly boots with walk modes. I don't know many 'new' skiers expressing interest in becoming a racer, I do know plenty of people who want to learn to 360/ski powder/etc. Equally I know two people who race, whereas the vast majority of skiers I know ski offpiste/park on at least a semi-regular basis (hardly scientific, I know).
WOuld be interested to see numbers/trends if you have a link though?
Good technical skiing has little to do with going fast, and is assessed in it's own modules anyway. The Eurotest is always touted as neccessary for safety, which makes no sense to me.
BTW, I'm not actually suggesting there should be a freeride test.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 29-04-13 18:58; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've no doubt some Landes and Staatlicher make a decent living if they are well embedded but generally a ISIA/Landes is better off in Switzrerland and a level 4/Staatliche is better off in France. I really don't buy the safety argument for the Eurotest either but it does make sense to have some kind of speed test as an objective assessment as I do believe that the training required improves your skiing and your understanding of skiing. Probably the Eurotest standard is too high and a Test Technique standard or ISIA speed test would be suffecient but then we get back to if the Eurotest were not in place it would not be attractive to become a high standard ski instructor.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Idris wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Something an ESF mate pointed out that snowboard instructors also have to pass the Eurotest so if you start as a boarder it is almost impossible to be an instructor in France which is really something to moan about!
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That's interesting. Maybe it explains why some of the French snowboard instructors I see might be top class skiers but are pretty average boarders.... I had a snowboard lesson from a guy whom I know to be a brilliant ski instructor, and a great chap, but even I, as a beginner (but having the McNab book and DVD) realised he was not really up to it as a snowboard instructor - my son was much better (and cheaper!). |
Speed test is also fairly irrelevant when you want freestyle lessons, which a greater number of punters (or their kids at any rate) would arguably ask for over gate training. |
It would be interesting if alternatives to the speed test were offered - freeride comp set-up, you've got to get within 10% of what Thovex would score... Obviously will never happen, and would be a ridiculous requirement, but probably more applicable given freeride/freestyle is more popular than racing these days! |
There's one born every minute, if you bothered to look at the numbers freeride+freestyle are completely insignificant compared to racing!
Good technical skiing has many similarities to ski racing, good freeride scores and freestyle bare little or no resemblance.
Oh BTW I ski steep freeride for personal fun not a piste |
Try again. I've highlighted the bits you missed. I've yet to meet an instructor who says his holiday group pleaded with him to set up some gates. A trip through the park though? Yeh that sounds fun!
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry to butcher a quote clarky999;
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Good technical skiing has little to do with going fast, and is assessed in it's own modules anyway. |
But to go really quick, you need to be a really good technical skier no? Does one not prove the other?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I still don't get why if there is "really big money" to be made from owning an Austrian ski school, why well-qualified Austrian instructors let the owners cream off the profits? Why don't they get together and set up a co-operative ski school where all concerned share the proceeds in a fairly equitable fashion? Ski lessons cost much the same in Austria and France - how come French instructors reputedly make more money than the rest?
Actually, I'm not sure it's true that French instructors earn a lot more than others. And, as I have said elsewhere, if they do, then that suggests their ski schools are run a lot more efficiently than the British ones which generally charge far higher prices; on the face of it, that seems implausible. And the instructors I know have other, mostly quite ordinary, jobs for 7 - 8 months of the year. They don't seem to be particularly fat cats.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Who is the bloke in yellow as he's not vety pretty and (IMV) not a very pretty skier,,,,?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| I've yet to meet an instructor who says his holiday group pleaded with him to set up some gates. A trip through the park though? Yeh that sounds fun! |
But the instructor didn't set up the park did he? It was already there.
I find that if a group sees a public race-course they always want to go and ski it: the timed and videod courses they have in some resorts are especially popular.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Who is the bloke in yellow as he's not vety pretty and (IMV) not a very pretty skier,,,,? |
That's Phil Smith, founder of Snoworks. Over the years I've had a lot of instruction from him and I rate him extremely highly. He's been extremely influential in my development as a skier and as an instructor. Top guy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, not him, the other bloke in yellow. Apos, after posting I realised there were at least two of them... 
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| I've yet to meet an instructor who says his holiday group pleaded with him to set up some gates. A trip through the park though? Yeh that sounds fun! |
If you take last week's End of Season Bash as typical of keen recreational skiers (many of whom took part in the lesson programme), dozens of them took part in the race at the end of the week, and I'm sure it was as popular and enjoyed as much as every other race which has been a feature of this Bash since it started several years ago. As far as I know there was one snowHead who used the park regularly.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 30-04-13 8:46; edited 1 time in total
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| under a new name wrote: |
| rob@rar, not him, the other bloke in yellow. Apos, after posting I realised there were at least two of them... |
When does he appear in that video? Not sure I want to sit through all of it again. As I guess I'd say Lee Townend, another of the Snoworks guys.
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| andrew e wrote: |
Sorry to butcher a quote clarky999;
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Good technical skiing has little to do with going fast, and is assessed in it's own modules anyway. |
But to go really quick, you need to be a really good technical skier no? Does one not prove the other? |
No worries.
To go fast through a race course, yes of course - to be fast enough to pass the Eurotest, you have to be pretty fantastic. However it's also possible to be a fantastic technical skier without being fast in the gates (maybe even just through simple fear of the high speeds/risk of injury in a fall rather than any skill issue).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
I still don't get why if there is "really big money" to be made from owning an Austrian ski school, why well-qualified Austrian instructors let the owners cream off the profits? Why don't they get together and set up a co-operative ski school where all concerned share the proceeds in a fairly equitable fashion? Ski lessons cost much the same in Austria and France - how come French instructors reputedly make more money than the rest?
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No idea.
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Maybe France is a more socialist, unionised country than Austria? My comments are just based on talking to BASI and Austrian instructors and keen young Austrian and German skiers and are partly from a british perspective. It is certainly true that France is the largest market for Brit skiers and there are restrictions on lower qualifed skiers which is probably why it is the most lucrative market for fully qualified Brit skiers to work in. Personally I think it is down to the absymal standard of apre in France compared to Austria which means more people are up for lessons in France than Austria
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I still don't get why if there is "really big money" to be made from owning an Austrian ski school, why well-qualified Austrian instructors let the owners cream off the profits? Why don't they get together and set up a co-operative ski school where all concerned share the proceeds in a fairly equitable fashion? Ski lessons cost much the same in Austria and France - how come French instructors reputedly make more money than the rest? |
Hi pamw, see this link I previously posted which describes some of the violence and intimidation the ESI has suffered in France, for setting up in competition to ESF (you have to scroll down a bit). Perhaps potential break-away Austrian instructors don't relish the prospect of a similar experience  .
http://www.avoriaz-vacances.fr/2012/03/ecoles-de-ski-esf-ou-e-s-i/
Also see my description of the workings of the ESF "Liste de Priorité" system over in bend-ze-knees. It's pretty clear how the more senior ESF instructors get paid way more that they earn, by exploiting their less experienced colleagues.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| rob@rar, not him, the other bloke in yellow. Apos, after posting I realised there were at least two of them... |
are you sure there are two of them? AFAIKS there is Phil and some double barrelled bint, both were making harder work than you would expect, given the skis and their level, off piste and yellow guy was a bit ragged on piste in places. The filming wasn't good though - I guess that's not one of their core skills.
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| davidof wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| rob@rar, not him, the other bloke in yellow. Apos, after posting I realised there were at least two of them... |
are you sure there are two of them? AFAIKS there is Phil and some double barrelled bint, both were making harder work than you would expect, given the skis and their level, off piste and yellow guy was a bit ragged on piste in places. The filming wasn't good though - I guess that's not one of their core skills. |
Likewise. Just Phil and Emma as far as I could see.
bear in mind the Snoworks philosophy isn't about 'looking nice'
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You know it makes sense.
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| feef wrote: |
bear in mind the Snoworks philosophy isn't about 'looking nice' |
Effective skiing?
Maybe the BBRs have too much sidecut. I saw a few people skiing very well on them last year but I've not seen a single BBR this year. People seem to have passed onto Cham 87s and 97s although them seem to fall apart like other Dynastar skis.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, I don't think you can characterise the EOSB race as evidence for a massive appetite for racing among the skiing public. I'd guess most participants do it for a bit of a laugh but very few take it seriously enough to bring special race skis or tune what they brung etc etc. I'd suspect very few would have the appetite for buying lycra and shin/arm guards etc and then putting in the hard knocks in the gates.
Most people will have a scoot down a slalom course if it is set up because it's a structured thing to do when skiing and provides a bit of a change from turn where you want to. Maybe even a bit of friendly competition. That's just human nature. It's not the same as a desire to race being common among rec skiers, you might as well say that jumping off a little bump at the side of the piste is evidence that people aspire to go huge over 12ft booters.
After seeing Italians on race skis and beautiful on piste technique struggle in heavy wet "powder" this weekend, I'm getting more reinforced in my prejudices that racing is the perfect measure of a skier. That said no doubt that the best race skiers make pretty damn fine "freeride" skiers, but that's not much different to saying that a good baseball batter would probably be a pretty handy 20/20 cricket batsman, skill and athleticism go a long way and skills are transferable between disciplines.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| fatbob wrote: |
| rob@rar, I don't think you can characterise the EoSB race as evidence for a massive appetite for racing among the skiing public. |
I agree, I was simply providing a counterpoint to the view that park is popular, gates are unpopular. For a certain demographic, a major one amongst holiday skiers, having a run or two through some gates would be a bit of fun, but a few laps around the park would be something to be feared. Not saying that either is better or worse, just that there are plenty of skiers who would like to have a few runs in gates if there was easier access to them. That's certainly our experience in Inside Out, and we're looking at providing a morning of (optional) gates training on one of our coaching holidays next winter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If people want to refute the statement that Idris made they need to come up with some numbers, how many people are really doing freestyle and freeride ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fatbob, I think that is fair from a british perspective but from my experience in Austria there are still hordes of the little darlings race training compared to those in the park. I'd agree a lot of young kids are into park skiing now and think it should be part of the instructing syllabus even though it is not my thing. The Italians do have a more piste focus though races coaches I have spoken to are keen for racers to freeride as it improves their allround skills. You can see instructors backgrounds but think allround skills should be encouraged. That Svindal bloke does not look too shabby off-piste for a racer in my view.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, I absolutely see the value in gates as a training tool for general skiing primarily around the "turn where you're forced to" point as well as the dealing with nasty underfoot conditions in the rutline so I totally see why you're doing it.
Steering more on topic I think there's probably a perception out there that what makes a good all round skier is probably slightly different to what it was 20 years ago and as the instructing profession rightly tries to base things on fundamentals there is probably not that much difference at the core. Maybe the question should be whether the Eurotest should be the only "objective" measure of performance?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rjs wrote: |
| If people want to refute the statement that Idris made they need to come up with some numbers, how many people are really doing freestyle and freeride ? |
I really don't know, I'm just working on observation and the people I know. Freeriding (loose term) as in comp style, not all that many I'd guess. This season saw a LOT more entry-level comps around here so it's clearly growing, I'd imagine the organised race scene is still larger though - but none of these are really for new/learner skiers, especially the sort who hire instructors. The race scene seems to be mainly local kids who grow up through the clubs, rather than the traditional ski school stuff.
As for the amount of people who ski offpiste (see where I'm going with the relevance?), whether just the bumpy stuff off the side or touring away from the lifts, that seems to me to be many more than I see race training or playing in the set-up gates courses.
I avoid parks like the plague, but they're always busy here.
When I was teaching, kids always wanted to go play in the tracks through the trees and find bumps to jump off, I was never asked to go and play in a race course. I'm only base level qualified and teaching beginners, so nothing we were skiing approaches 'freeride,' but again you can see where the interest lies and is developing.
Offpiste equipment seems to be seeing the biggest growth and innovation in the industry atm, and there are an increasing number of freeride/offpiste courses and camps being offered.
Even just on Snowheads there are many TR's reporting on offpiste/touring days or trips, or asking about 'how to start offpiste' or 'is it safe for my kids to play just off the side'. I think I've seen one TR reporting a race training week here?
Frankly I can't be bothered looking for numbers, I'm not teaching anymore so none of this really concerns me. Feel free to post some yourself though!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
I really don't know, I'm just working on observation and the people I know. Freeriding (loose term) as in comp style, not all that many I'd guess. This season saw a LOT more entry-level comps around here so it's clearly growing, I'd imagine the organised race scene is still larger though - but none of these are really for new/learner skiers, especially the sort who hire instructors. The race scene seems to be mainly local kids who grow up through the clubs, rather than the traditional ski school stuff.
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one of the obstacles that Freeride competitions need to overcome is visibility to the larger skiing population. Traditional racing has quite a high profile both from media coverage, but also that the competitions are visible from the piste, indeed, sometimes pistes are closed for race training or the races themselves. Awareness will always be high.
I was in Murren while the Kick the Vik freeride competition was on. Apart from a couple of stands at the entrance to the cable car, and a gazebo set up opposite the competition slope, there was no other visible indication that a competition was on. The average joe, skiing about, would just not have been aware of it.
I'm not saying that this should change, or that it's a problem, it's just the nature of the beast : piste based competition is always going to be more visible.
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| fatbob wrote: |
rob@rar, I absolutely see the value in gates as a training tool for general skiing primarily around the "turn where you're forced to" point as well as the dealing with nasty underfoot conditions in the rutline so I totally see why you're doing it.
Steering more on topic I think there's probably a perception out there that what makes a good all round skier is probably slightly different to what it was 20 years ago and as the instructing profession rightly tries to base things on fundamentals there is probably not that much difference at the core. Maybe the question should be whether the Eurotest should be the only "objective" measure of performance? |
For me it's more about doing a fun activity rather than an indispensible training tool (although we are developing a "Turn Or Burn" clinic for later in the year at Hemel). If gates were easier to access I think more people would do them - not exclusively, but just as a fun thing to do while on holiday along with a bit of off-piste, etc.
To address your ET point, I think it's good to have an objective test of performance as part of instructors' assessment, and something against the clock through gates seems as good a test as any. In fact I think there should be a timed test at lover levels of qualification, not just ISTD. My only caveat is that the pass mark for this objective test should be based on the skills required to provide a good teaching experience for your typical client, not set at a level which is designed to restrict the supply of instructors.
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bear in mind the Snoworks philosophy isn't about 'looking nice'
Effective skiing?
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From 4.29 and 6.26. Just to qualify my statements, I'm no instructor but to me a very wide stance off piste, definitely ragged looking and an interesting double pole plant in the first sequence. Didn't look attractive, didn't look effective (should effective look good? what was all that stuff about "flow"?) and I don't think I'd be so very impressed if I'd paid good money for an off piste course and was presented with that as a model to emulate.
Anyway, back on topic,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| feef wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
I really don't know, I'm just working on observation and the people I know. Freeriding (loose term) as in comp style, not all that many I'd guess. This season saw a LOT more entry-level comps around here so it's clearly growing, I'd imagine the organised race scene is still larger though - but none of these are really for new/learner skiers, especially the sort who hire instructors. The race scene seems to be mainly local kids who grow up through the clubs, rather than the traditional ski school stuff.
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I was in Murren while the Kick the Vik freeride competition was on. Apart from a couple of stands at the entrance to the cable car, and a gazebo set up opposite the competition slope, there was no other visible indication that a competition was on. The average joe, skiing about, would just not have been aware of it. |
Whereas if you'd been in Mürren during Inferno week you just wouldn't have been able to get away from it...
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| under a new name wrote: |
| From 4.29 and 6.26. |
That's Phil.
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