 Poster: A snowHead
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Meanwhile ... over on the SCGB Facebook page ...
https://www.facebook.com/TheSkiClub
... this "not-for-profit club" ... "now a voice of authority for recreational snowsports in the UK" ... "the UK’s biggest snowsports community, with the UK’s leading snowsports website" [from the SCGB "company overview", Facebook] ...
... actually looks, right now, like a socking great advert for an Austrian ski region. Should the Facebook page of a members-owned club be used for these blitz-pimping purposes? Facebook is a free-to-use channel, for users and providers. No revenue is needed to run a Facebook page. What's the motive for this wall-to-wall advertising?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Should the Facebook page of a members-owned club be used for these blitz-pimping purposes?
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Yes. They're running a competition in which you can win a load of ski-related stuff. Their members are skiers. Skiers are likely to be keen on the chance to win a load of ski-related stuff. Undoubtedly the Tirol tourist people think there is some advantage to them in amongst all this, but I imagine your average club member is probably bright enough to spot that one for himself.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ski club of GB offers lapsed members a discount of £15 if they renew. I wonder what Comedy Goldsmith would think of that.
There is also an online survey. One question asks to tick a box for a "fair price" for SCGB membership. There is no box with a lower price than £49 though....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Karl Marx,  now you are outraged because they are running a competition? Go get help.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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this is everything I hate about forums (and there's lots I do like about them) in one thread.
I'm fairly confident that if you had this discussion face to face it would have a very different tone! Isn't it time to drop it?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skribble, it's a kind suggestion, but you're right that people prefer to adopt fictional personalities and fantasy argument for these forums. As Karl Marx, I (David Goldsmith) am trying to give some perspective from a left-of-centre perspective. Other German historical figures are available, not necessarily of that persuasion. So long as some sort of truth wins out, British skiing could benefit.
George Jones, we already know that the SCGB is uncertain of its annually-hiked membership price. That is presumably why the price was recently halved for an offer, and why the "beginner" rate was introduced last year - at an even greater discount. Are you revealing that you are now a lapsed member, or did this information come your way from another source?
Shimmy Alcott, "outraged" is far too loud a word. It's outrageous that you stoop to such hyperbole. What's shocking about the Facebook page is its highly commercial appearance - the advertising ('competition') blitzes out any other normal social media content. It makes the SCGB look like a kind of promotions agency, when it's supposed to be an independent source of fascinating news and information about skiing (isn't it?).
Lizzard, have you not spotted that the FB page is pitched at non-members? Members might enter the competition, but it's clearly not targeted at them, since one of the prizes is SCGB membership. A Ski Club needs to do two things: (1) delight its existing members - with exclusive benefits - so they renew and spread the word (2) recruit new members. Does the FB page address these objectives?
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@Karl Marx, from my limited observations and experience Of the SCGB, they do a great job of their Fb page. It's very informative and engaging. Credit where credit is due.
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@Karl Marx, so a Ski Club needs only do two things? You seem to ask for 100000 different things of them, depending how and what takes your fancy that day. Contrary Mary, as my Mum would say.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Shimmy Alcott, If it bothers you so much, why don't you just ignore DG's posts?
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you only get 5 ignores total.
after Stanton (the most important ignore of all), that only leaves 4 for DG and his top drawer full of socks, which isn;t really enough.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Katia, doesn't bother me at all  this is a forum and I have the right to reply, that's the whole point of a forum. He's entitled to his view and I'm entitled to mine. I think I've shown much restraint as my contribution to this thread is but a very small % of DG/CG/KM/SCGBInsider's etc etc etc
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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£21
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| andy wrote: |
you only get 5 ignores total.
after Stanton (the most important ignore of all), that only leaves 4 for DG and his top drawer full of socks, which isn;t really enough. |
Presumably you can get another 5 by adopting an alter ego. "Andrew", perhaps.
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You know it makes sense.
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@andy, OK, then I'll just ignore the New Ski Club of Great Britain topic in future.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Katia, most of us do this anyway 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yep I'm going to ignore it too!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
A Ski Club needs to do two things: (1) delight its existing members - with exclusive benefits - so they renew and spread the word (2) recruit new members. Does the FB page address these objectives?
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Yes.
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British skiing could benefit
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WTF is 'British skiing' anyway? As far as I can see it's a bunch of people going on holiday now and then. What's the huge big deal?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think i'm going to join the this fine establishment just because DG cant and isn't allowed there. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
As Karl Marx, I (David Goldsmith) am trying to give some perspective from a left-of-centre perspective. Other German historical figures are available, not necessarily of that persuasion. So long as some sort of truth wins out, British skiing could benefit.
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Thanks for not choosing former Chancellor Kohl as your alter-ego. Lord knows Snowheads doesn't need another Helmut thread...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Richard_Sideways, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Thanks for not choosing former Chancellor Kohl as your alter-ego. Lord knows Snowheads doesn't need another Helmut thread... |
Das kapital joke wins the K Marx Brothers 'Monday morning German humour of the day' award, and a complimentary visit to Highgate Cemetery ... at your own expense ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highgate_Cemetery
| Quote: |
| The most famous burial in the East cemetery is arguably that of Karl Marx (whose tomb's attempted bombings on 2 September 1965[5] and in 1970[6] are still recalled by some Highgate residents) |
Should you attend the cemetery, please do so without any explosive devices.
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surely Karl Marx's previous post should have been via the CG sock? it was nearly funny anyway.
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Meanwhile ... it's 'Carry On Ski-Clubbing' in Val d'Isere ... which is one of the 11 French resorts where the SCGB has withdrawn its official 'leader' service, in the face of the recent prosecution and action by the local ESF. This is the latest on the SCGB open public forum (NB - Richard Bird is a former SCGB director) ...
Page 9: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/The-Ski-Club?discussionID=14851&page=9#.VM9y_NUgiiw
Many skiers are sympathetic to the SCGB's position on this, likening it to the protectionist action taken against ski instructor Simon Butler and his ski school in Megeve. But there is a huge difference, in relation to safety. Simon Butler is an internationally-qualified professional. SCGB leaders hold no recognised/transferable qualification, especially to lead skiers off-piste. The SCGB does, sadly, have a patchy record - three known fatalities linked to its off-piste leadership activities in recent decades.
So, what's the latest 'wheeze thinking' for getting around the French ban? The old guard are clearly determined to keep it up, and carry on SCGBing ...
| Quote: |
John Dixon: "Assume in Val the off-piste groups are hiring a guide and not skiing with a seasonaire."
Marcia Nash: "I bet they are not hiring a guide most days. Ironically we skied routes that a SC Leader on duty would not be allowed to do including Grand Vallon and Cugnai (access under ropes). We had more than one person in the group who had done the Leaders course plus seasonaires who, it could be argued, knew the routes best and were therefore 'responsible'. But I think you are right: a lawyer would look at who had the most training."
Mike Crompton: "Yes [new 'ambassador' scheme] working ok in Val and everyone gets to ski in a group most days. We tend to have smaller groups than a leader would normally take and a coffee meet up allows transfers!! Social hour is important for people to meet up and this is often where groups are formed.
Richard Bird: "Mike thanks for that report. Good to hear that everyone gets to ski most days, which is even better than some Leader weeks! Reading the various comments:
1. "People don't know their standards". The only question would surely be do you consider yourself Beginner, Intermediate or Advanced. Simple sorting. Forget the Club colour system.
2. " if something goes wrong the most experienced skier in the group ends up taking responsibility." The Ambassador simply suggests itineraries suitable for each group. Nobody is appointed as official 'leader'. (The Ambassador will be careful not to do that). So all you have is a group of acquaintances,, with a suggested itinerary, and an opportunity for anyone to switch groups at coffee/lunch stop. Sounds all legal to me.
No member should feel threatened with 'responsibility' any more than if skiing with friends. In Switzerland there are legal responsibilities if one person should claim to be the most experienced and take the leading initiative into risky areas, but I am not aware of any such legal framework in France." |
Perhaps these SCGB members would be much better advised to undertake these activities via a Facebook-linked separate group, rather than operating within the SCGB umbrella of semi-organised or organised off-piste groupings like this. There may well be (as yet untested) legal implications to this 'get around' - maybe best not to immerse the SCGB in additional legal soup.
The reference to "access under ropes" [Marcia Nash] is particularly eye-popping. Does this refer to ropes put there by the ski patrol to advise 'strictly off-limits'? (with all the legal and insurance implications, let alone moral ones in relation to the mountain rescue services).
Marcia Nash is welcome to comment, if those comments have been mis-interpreted.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Karl Marx, you really are a poisoned little man. Just leave them alone. Why so intent on destroying a group that so many are so obviously enjoying and benefitting from. I'd be inclined to stop posting on the SCGB forum knowing you are always sniffing around and cross posting to other sites without people's knowledge. Have you no self respect?
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| Karl Marx wrote: |
Richard Bird: In Switzerland there are legal responsibilities if one person should claim to be the most experienced and take the leading initiative into risky areas, but I am not aware of any such legal framework in France." |
Unfortunatly the ski club being "unaware" of the local laws seems to be a recurring issue. It is exactly the same situation in France as Switzerland. If someone takes the initiative to ski something that they and the group were clearly not competent to ski then that person could be liable. There is case law to back this up. The courts will not be as demanding as they are with a professional though. For example, should David Goldsmith esq. take a group of snowheads for a bit of between the pistes action on a risk 2 day having first given everyone avalanche ribbons and someone gets killed the courts would be more benevolant than if he were an ESF instructor.
However the rest of the idea, of groups of like minded skiers hooking up to ski on or off piste, within their capacities, sounds very sensible. It is a wonder the ski club didn't do things like this years ago.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Who runs the Ski Club of Great Britain? - update
Here's an update, based on Companies House information [this data was previously compiled on 21 November 2014.] Three companies - Ski Club of Great Britain Ltd, Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd and Ski Club Services Ltd - operate the Club, though the latter is listed as "dormant" by Companies House.
A scan through Companies House records ... going back to 2008 ... shows all appointments named since then.
Firstly, these are all directors of Ski Club of Great Britain Limited appointed since May 2008, with termination dates as appropriate. Where one date is shown, this director is believed to be currently serving the board ...
SKI CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN LTD - DIRECTORS
SINCE 2008:
John Francis Haddon [appointed 21.5.2008, terminated 17.12.2010]
William Raine Bell [1.2.2009, 29.11.2011]
Martin Ashley [1.2.2009, 3.8.2012]
Sheila Elizabeth Hope St Maur [1.2.2009, 6.12.2012]
Steven Jeffrey Brabbs [1.2.2009, 21.11.2013]
Sally Robson [1.2.2009, 6.12.2012]
Alexandre Jay Parr [11.2.2009, 17.12.2010]
James Pitman Hyde Harrison [13.1.2010, 14.11.2011]
Christopher David Glynne [13.1.2010, 21.11.2014]
Paul Victor Whitehead [17.1.2011, 21.11.2014]
Richard Fairfax Bird [17.1.2011, 21.11.2014]
Harriet Julia Bradley [17.1.2011, 14.11.2011, "clarification 18.1.2012"]
Frank McCusker [14.8.2012, 3.9.2012]
Notes: Steven Brabbs [appointed 1.2.2009, terminated 21.11.2013, as above] is also listed by Companies House as having terminated on 21.11.2014
Christoper Glynne retired as a member of SCGB Council on 21.11.2013, but continued to be a listed director of the SCGB until 21.11.2014
CURRENT:
William Kenneth Robert Crowder [14.8.2012] [SCGB chairman]
Alan Lyons [30.10.2012]
Gerald Aitken [30.10.2012]
Mark Borland [14.3.2013]
Patrick Graeme Usborne [14.3.2013]
Malcolm Kenneth Sharp Bentley [14.3.2013] [SCGB treasurer]
Tim James Whelan [21.11.2013] [company secretary]
Ian Holt [10.1.2014]
Kim Moss [10.1.2014]
Chris Radford [22.12.2014]
Bob West [15.1.2015]
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 4-02-15 9:09; edited 5 times in total
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The two other companies operating the Ski Club of Great Britain ...
SKI CLUB SERVICES LTD - DIRECTORS
This company is specified "dormant" by Companies House
Timothy Whelan [14.8.2012]
William Kenneth Robert Crowder [6.12.2012]
Francis Conn McCusker [27.1.2014]
SKI CLUB WINTER ARRANGEMENTS LTD - DIRECTORS
This company is believed to handle income and expenditure of the SCGB's holiday operation 'Freshtracks'
SINCE 2009:
Caroline Anne Stuart-Taylor [Co. Secretary] [appointed 3.2.2009, terminated 18.6.2012]
Steven Jeffrey Brabbs [16.9.2009, 16.9.2009]
Steven Brabbs [16.9.2009, 27.1.2014]
CURRENT:
Timothy Whelan [Co. Secretary] [14.8.2012]
William Kenneth Robert Crowder [SCGB chairman][6.12.2012]
Francis Conn McCusker [SCGB chief executive] [11.10.2013]
Malcolm Kenneth Sharp Bentley [SCGB treasurer] [27.1.2014]
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 3-02-15 17:31; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Errr ..... your point being?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Errr ..... your point being? |
+1
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Having vowed not to return I had an email link thing, clicked it and ended up here again. For the hell of it (like a motorway rubbernecker) I read the last few threads and conclude this thread is in the process of eating itself!
Does anyone know what point anyone else is trying to make?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Errr ..... your point being? |
One point, for the moment:
In 2015, the SCGB council/board includes 1 female member
For perspective:
In 1985, the SCGB council/board included 3 female members
In 1995, the SCGB council/board included 2 female members
In 2005, the SCGB council/board included 4 female members
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 3-02-15 17:57; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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comedy posted. thought it must be funny.
thread has gone way beyond any sense now, so may as well take it to a new low.
the thread has eaten itself several times already.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Comedy Goldsmith, so? 
Your vendetta against the Saga Ski Club's activities is centred on some kind of feminist equality thing now? I thought is was about other people getting to go skiing when you don't.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Over to the FT:
Proportion of women on FTSE 100 boards tops 20%
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e981f88c-7eb0-11e3-8642-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3QhcKkBQk
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| The proportion of women on FTSE 100 boards has topped 20 per cent for the first time, raising hopes that the UK government’s target of 25 per cent female membership by 2015 can be reached without mandatory quotas. |
The proportion of women on the SCGB board is 9%
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@Comedy Goldsmith, again .... SO WHAT?
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Well .... what's the proportion of women on the average group ski trip?
In a typical ski school?
In the SCGB's membership?
I wonder if the SCGB might be less litigious and 'up itself' if it had a significant/sensible number of intelligent women on the board.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Comedy Goldsmith, well you're still a royal pain in the @ss despite that fact that you have a wife, so probably not, no.
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SCGB is FTSE 100?
2 vs 1... is that 1 more or a 100% increase?
Statistics are total nonsense with numbers like that.
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FAQ
