Poster: A snowHead
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I don't think I would use a company that clearly misunderstands what renumeration is. "Someone on holiday could be caught by this new interpretation of the law" would still require them to receive some renumeration.
Not great marketing from MPI, but then what would we expect from an insurance company looking to line its pockets with money from frightened holidaymakers - of course more scaremongering.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mistress Panda wrote: |
I don't think I would use a company that clearly misunderstands what renumeration is. |
What is renumeration? I know what remuneration is......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Alastair Pink, fiddling the books...for which actuaries are paid handsomely
(allegedly)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@ALQ,
I don't think it's in question at all - they're paid a fortune
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SCGB insider wrote: |
The "financial transactions" (account) will be checked in due course. Perhaps it's relevant to remind you of the SCGB's email of 7 January
. |
The determination of the dogged investigative reporter knows no bounds in seeking to unearth the "truth" regarding dastardly deeds at the SCGB- except of course taking a moment to go on line to check his own bank account; that would reveal the "inconvenient truth"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Quote: |
DG will not waste his moolah on men with quills/wigs.
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Because you think you'd lose? If you genuinely believe that serious financial irregularity is occurring, have the balls to report it to plod and shut up.
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Lizzard wrote: |
Quote: |
DG will not waste his moolah on men with quills/wigs.
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I thought he thought he was referring to the management committee of the SCGB
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On the rocks wrote: |
SCGB outsider wrote: |
The "financial transactions" (account) will be checked in due course. Perhaps it's relevant to remind you of the SCGB's email of 7 January
. |
The determination of the dogged investigative reporter knows no bounds in seeking to unearth the "truth" regarding dastardly deeds at the SCGB- except of course taking a moment to go on line to check his own bank account; that would reveal the "inconvenient truth" |
Of course not, Eblunt thinks he's far too busy posting on here to have time to check at the moment
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I am no longer a member (of some years), I still get e-mails of The Edge and the occasional promo e-mail but I didn't get this offer.
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@On the rocks,
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lizzard wrote: |
Quote: |
DG will not waste his moolah on men with quills/wigs.
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Because you think you'd lose? If you genuinely believe that serious financial irregularity is occurring, have the balls to report it to plod and shut up. |
Wise words, grow some dave or leave it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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[quote="Filthyphil30k"]
Lizzard wrote: |
Quote: |
report it to plod and shut up. |
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Filthyphil30k wrote: |
Wise words, grow some dave or leave it. |
These words will come back to haunt you, as grotesquely as Michael Jackson's 'Thriller'
You simply have no idea of the significance of your pompous posturing. Do you seriously think that good people have not taken this sort of action?
Meanwhile .... what exactly have you been 'doing for British skiing', apart from working in the ticket office of a French zoo?
The truth will emerge from corpses rising from a grave of 25 years past. And you're going to have to wait for it.
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Advance warning:
New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum will shortly reach its 94th page. Regular readers of Private Eye magazine will appreciate the irony ...
Recurring in-jokes in Private Eye
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurring_in-jokes_in_Private_Eye
Quote: |
The number 94 is used as a generic large number, to indicate that something is lengthy and boring. This originated with some articles ending mid-sentence with "(continued page 94)" – a page which does not exist, as the organ does not extend to such a length. |
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Fri 23-01-15 7:44; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Getting back to the SCGB's invitation to DG to rejoin the Club ... and its contract of membership, confirmed on 6 January ...
rogg wrote: |
I'm not a lawyer ...
If no payment is made then no contract has been formed ...
... if not there's no contract. |
Have you asked a lawyer?
In this instance, a guarantee of payment was demanded of DG. A guarantee of payment was made to the SCGB. A "Ski Club membership confirmation" [the SCGB's words] was transmitted to DG. A "payment receipt" [the SCGB's words] was part of that confirmation. The SCGB defined the deal and confirmed it. This was a done deal.
The SCGB is currently in breach of contract by not providing DG's membership services. That is the legal position. [Ask a lawyer]
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@SCGB insider, if they havent taken any money from you and you dont have a membership number = you are not a member
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Poster: A snowHead
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Quote: |
what exactly have you been 'doing for British skiing'
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Absolutely nothing, other than working for TOs and buying the odd thing from UK retailers. My ego is nowhere near so over-inflated that I imagine I could 'do someting for British skiing'. I'm sure it manages perfectly well on its own. And what's 'British skiing' anyway that makes it so different and important compared to , for example, Hungarian skiing? As far as I can see, it consists largely of a load of commercial enterprises selling holidays, and as such is pretty much on a par with 'British use of theme parks'.
And if 'good people' have already had recourse to the law over all this nonsense and got nowhere, is it perhaps because there is nothing untoward going on and in fact you are merely an obsessive nutter?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
@SCGB insider, if they havent taken any money from you and you dont have a membership number = you are not a member |
Have you asked a lawyer?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's not that difficult to understand.
- You might have a contract offering you membership and communication confirming membership (and even that's debatable)
BUT
- The SCGB have not delivered on that contract by actually making you a member.
This is confirmed by your lack of a membership number and by the subsequent email rejecting your membership application.
You can go ahead and sue them for breach of contract if you want to but the plain and simple truth of the matter is that you are not currently a member of the SCGB
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If dave says he is a member, I for one believe him to be one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SCGB insider wrote: |
Getting back to the SCGB's invitation to DG to rejoin the Club ... and its contract of membership, confirmed on 6 January ...
rogg wrote: |
I'm not a lawyer ...
If no payment is made then no contract has been formed ...
... if not there's no contract. |
Have you asked a lawyer?
In this instance, a guarantee of payment was demanded of DG. A guarantee of payment was made to the SCGB. A "Ski Club membership confirmation" [the SCGB's words] was transmitted to DG. A "payment receipt" [the SCGB's words] was part of that confirmation. The SCGB defined the deal and confirmed it. This was a done deal.
The SCGB is currently in breach of contract by not providing DG's membership services. That is the legal position. [Ask a lawyer] |
No and I don't intend to, I'm not the one making repeated assertions about a membership contract.
You can waffle all you like about guaranteed payment and automated receipt of payment mails, Just answer the one question:
Was any money transferred to SCGB from your account?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DG membership renewal will run and run.
Not one of his Greatest Hits though like wristbands and certainly nowhere near "expenses-paid" skiing for a self-interested band of insiders.
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SCGB outsider wrote: |
Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
@SCGB outsider, if they havent taken any money from you and you dont have a membership number = you are not a member |
Have you asked a lawyer? |
Yes, she says it is quite clear that a contract does not exist without a "consideration" - a payment. If money has passed from your alter ego to SCGB then a contract exists, if not then it doesn't. He seems unwilling to disclose whether any money was taken from his account, but maybe he's so busy posting on here he hasn't had time to check on such a trivial and unimportant detail.
Just to clarify :
"A contract must be "met with" or "supported by" consideration to be enforceable; also, only a person who has provided consideration can enforce a contract. In other words, if an arrangement consists of a promise which is not supported by consideration, then the arrangement is not a legally enforceable contract"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration_in_English_law
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Hmm. Wikipedia says a consideration can be a promise of a consideration. i.e. He has promised to pay the fee so a consideration on his side is part of the agreement.
A good example would be a contract with a builder. He agrees to do the work, you agree to pay him (in stages or on completion). You have a contract without money having to exchange hands there and then.
I'm not sure your argument holds up. Best check with your lawyer again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hello. I didn't expect my first ever post to be about contract law but here goes - I came here looking for latest conditions in the Leogang area LOL. I'm not a lawyer but I get involved in a lot of contracts and I talk to lawyers all the time. First thing to say is that contract law is almost never straightforward so the only real way of testing it is in court. However, in my lowly opinion, the offer made by the ski club via email to "DG" would not be an "invitation to treat" and that's because it is an offer made to an specific individual, to a specific personal email address. An "invitation to treat" is more commonly an item on display in a shop, something shown in an advertisement or an item up for auction - ie it is on offer to anybody which is why the seller gets the opportunity to decide whether or not they want to enter into a contract and money normally has to change hands to cement it. Had "DG" responded to an advert by the ski club in a newspaper then that may well be an "invitation to treat". So the offer was made via email, the offer was accepted, the offeree complied with the terms of the offer and "promised to pay" by way of giving the ski club his direct debit details as asked for and, whether or not they went through with collecting the money, a binding contract was forged. Personally I would say he is a member and that the ski club are in breach but spending dosh on all this would be mental. The whole issue of whether money changed hands though is a red herring. Haven't read all 90 odd pages but it all sounds rather extraordinary. Why can't he just be allowed to join?
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@olderscot, No need, You're example is different. It's a contract that stipulates that the payment will be made after some or all of the services have been received. SCGB didn't say "we will provide services , then you must pay for them at a later date". The services provided by SCGB are provided after payment is made. In this case a promise of payment does not make the contract enforceable until payment is actually made.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Pruman, oh, dear, you really should have stayed away...now you are proper sucked in and life will never be the same again
The membership application is only very recent. The other 80 odd pages are to do with other complaints DG/SCGB Insider has against the ski club. He's been banned from SCGB and this thread is full of him slagging off the Ski Club. He may have some valid arguments but his way of presenting them is far from mature/professional and he is often malicious in my opinion.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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To understand SCGB history, buy this entertaining book A BRIEF HISTORY OF DECLINE not by Stephen Hawking
The SCGB’s post-1950s fall from grace. Part 1: The Bronze Age
When I joined the Ski Club of Great Britain as a non-comedic 9-year-old boy in 1962, there seemed to be no limit to the wonders of the Alps. These huge mountains were beyond any human scale – massive, stormy, scary and awe-inspiring. Some genius with a cable and a pair of tugging cabins had turned them into the biggest playgrounds of snow imaginable. As a small boy, nothing was more exciting and more opposite to life in The Smoke ... but skiing was no walk in the park.
Fitted out with lace-up leather ski boots (there were two sets of laces on each boot to do up – inner and outer) and a pair of all-wood skis with screw-on edges, I did my best to make progress. Early lessons were conducted by severe but friendly Austrian instructors and were strictly lift-free – hours of side-stepping and snowploughing before you went anywhere near a ski lift. Learning new technique was a struggle – the step from stem turn (snowplough) to parallel (via the stem-christie turn) seemed to take forever, because the equipment was so hard to handle. Every evening in the hotel you put your damp black leather boots outside the bedroom door. A member of staff would whisk them away, dry them out during the night, and freshly polish them at the crack of dawn. That ritual was rewarded with a good tip at the end of the week.
My father – Rudy Goldsmith, a Berlin-born pioneer of computerised market research who had originally worked for Gallup - had quickly made money in the 1950s. It earned him the opportunity to introduce me to his favourite sport. In pre-WW2 Germany my dad had himself skied as a child and was passionate to take me to the best places, having me as his schussing companion. My first close encounter with a nursery slope was in 1959, on a seemingly huge but gentle pasture in Kitzbuhel. The U-shaped valley had ideal slopes for learning. By the end of the week I’d progressed to the mid-mountain. Poling and gently schussing through the woods, I vividly remember hearing the call of a cuckoo – is that possible?
But it was tough going. The first thing to do every morning was to lace up those boots (maybe 10 minutes work) and then tighten them all after about 30 minutes skiing. Obviously all that had to be done with gloves off – just imagine, in mid-winter. Then there were the cable bindings that pulled the boots onto the skis. These had a loop of cable which went around the heel of each boot, controlled by a lever at the front, which could take all one’s strength to close. I recall trying so hard to shut that lever that it once induced a nose-bleed. But all that graft was rewarded one day in 1962.
Taking the SCGB Bronze Test, 1962
To pass the bronze test of the Ski Club of Great Britain you had to prove that you’d grasped the basics of ski school during the week. But you probably wouldn’t take this test on your first ski holiday – it took that long to make progress on the old equipment. And so it was, one Friday in 1962, on a slope at St Anton in Austria, that I first met a representative of the Ski Club of Great Britain. A group of us (mainly) kids were lined up and asked to perform a number of rudimentary (not my father’s full name, which was Rudolph) techniques ... straight-running, stem, stem turn, kick-turn, side-step and so on. You didn’t take the test unless you could pass it, and the awards ceremony (there were also silver, and extremely demanding gold, medals) was a big occasion for British skiers every week.
The SCGB rep was a king of the hill, warmly hosted by the tourist office in each Alpine resort - a real boost to the village’s ski school. If you didn’t do lessons, you didn’t pass the SCGB tests. The Swiss and Austrian ski villages all offered their national tests - also with bronze, silver and gold medals - but the medals of the Ski Club of Great Britain were more sought-after. They were tougher to pass than the ‘tourist medals’ and operated to 'proper British standards'. All this stuff was the brainchildren of Sir Arnold Lunn - the Great British ski pioneer - and his fellow travellers. One has to remember that Lunn's forefathers essentially introduced skiing to the Alps, by transporting Norway's invention - the ski - to places that had never thought of this wheeze. The Brits were revered!
A gold-qualified British skier, with a gold SCGB medal, was simply the best British skier on the mountain and well up with the locals. For example, to pass the 'gold' you had to ski breakable crust (on those wooden skis), and perform perfect parallel turns. The Brits were serious players in the soon-to-boom industry of winter sports. But what hadn’t happened at this point was the explosion of charter flights, package holidays, and mega resorts to accommodate thousands. Things were, however, starting to take off. People were starting to make money and enjoy a lot more recreational time. In Scotland, in particular, skiing was on the threshold of mass-participation. Maybe that's where the rot first set in for the Ski Club of Great Britain. The toffs were about to lose control to the Jocks, on home ground.
[to be continued in 10 days: 'Part 2. The parallel swinging Sixties']
The father of Comedy: http://www.research-live.com/news/mil-founder-rudy-goldsmith-dies-aged-82/3004040.article
Skiing in 1962-3 - a British winter (the most severe for 300 years):
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-700/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/12/15/1292426263687/Skied-Milk-013.jpg
GOOD READING
on the history of the SCGB/British skiing history [often available on eBay or abebooks.com] ...
Ski Story. 1950-2000 by Rob Tillard (a one-time secretary of the SCGB). Privately published
Snow Crazy by Arnie Wilson.
The Story of Ski-ing by Arnold Lunn
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You know it makes sense.
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@Comedy Goldsmith, Ah, now come on David, or SCGBi, did the money get transferred or not? Simple question, simple one word answer, yes or no?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rogg wrote: |
@Comedy Goldsmith, Ah, now come on David, or SCGBi, did the money get transferred or not? Simple question, simple one word answer, yes or no? |
To answer your question ... the SCGB confirmed a membership contract with DG on 6 January. That contract was based on a payment guarantee (direct debit data), demanded from DG by SCGB. The contract, which included the provision of that direct debit, was confirmed with a "payment receipt".
DG's bank account was checked two days ago (23 Jan). It showed no payment to the SCGB or recorded direct debit arrangement.
It was NOT the SCGB's option not to honour the contract. The SCGB is in breach of contract. This (and the original illegal expulsion from the Club in 2013, under the SCGB's published Rules) will be pursued in due course.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SCGB insider wrote: |
rogg wrote: |
@Comedy Goldsmith, Ah, now come on David, or SCGBi, did the money get transferred or not? Simple question, simple one word answer, yes or no? |
To answer your question ... the SCGB confirmed a membership contract with DG on 6 January. That contract was based on a payment guarantee (direct debit data), demanded from DG by SCGB. The contract, which included the provision of that direct debit, was confirmed with a "payment receipt".
DG's bank account was checked two days ago (23 Jan). It showed no payment to the SCGB or recorded direct debit arrangement. |
That'll be 'No' then.
Quote: |
It was NOT the SCGB's option not to honour the contract. The SCGB is in breach of contract. This (and the original illegal expulsion from the Club in 2013, under the SCGB's published Rules) will be pursued in due course. |
Well, I've been involved in contracts quite a bit (though not recently) but I don't have a feel for what the law regarding your recent membership application. I suppose you could find out by going to court, but I would have thought that any court would consider your case to be a waste of its time. Not only is the sum involved tiny, but no financial loss was suffered.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No way! You should know he doesn't wear a helmet .
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sticking with a similar theme, could challengertwo be a "... British main battle tank (MBT) in service with the armies of the United Kingdom and Oman ... designed and built by the British company Vickers Defence Systems (now known as BAE Systems Land and Armaments)" ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2
... or could challengertwo be a newly launched 'British main battle troll' in service with the armies of the United Kingdom national ski club?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SCGB CEO Frank McCusker (right) Update from SIGB insider - to coin a phrase - about this week's Slide trade exhibition at Telford.
Slide is the UK's snowsports trade show, opening tomorrow Tuesday 27 Jan ... until Thursday 29 Jan. It's organised for Snowsports Industries of Great Britain (SIGB).
Slide info: http://www.slideuk.co.uk/
On Wednesday, there's a special event involving SCGB research ...
SIGB update: http://www.raremanagement.co.uk/SIGBupdate60.htm
Quote: |
On Wednesday evening, following the brief formalities of the SIGB AGM, there is to be a presentation of some extensive consumer research into snowsport by Frank McCusker, CE at the Ski Club of Great Britain, as well as an update on the SnowCamp bursary recipients, supported by SIGB. It's also an opportunity for the industry to share views on a range of ski and snowboard related topics. |
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
And so it was, one Friday in 1962, on a slope at St Anton in Austria, that I first met a representative of the Ski Club of Great Britain.....
The SCGB rep was a king of the hill, warmly hosted by the tourist office in each Alpine resort - a real boost to the village’s ski school. If you didn’t do lessons, you didn’t pass the SCGB tests. The Swiss and Austrian ski villages all offered their national tests - also with bronze, silver and gold medals - but the medals oof Great Britain were more sought-after. All this stuff was the brainchildren of Sir Arnold Lunn - the Great British ski pioneer - and his fellow travellers. One has to remember that Lunn's forefathers essentially introduced skiing to the Alps, by transporting Norway's invention - the ski - to places that had never thought of this wheeze. The Brits were revered!
A gold-qualified British skier, with a gold SCGB medal, was simply the best British skier on the mountain and well up with the locals. For example, to pass the 'gold' you had to ski breakable crust (on those wooden skis), and perform perfect parallel turns. The Brits were serious players in the soon-to-boom industry of winter sports. But what hadn’t happened at this point was the explosion of charter flights, package holidays, and mega resorts to accommodate thousands. Things were, however, starting to take off. People were starting to make money and enjoy a lot more recreational time. In Scotland, in particular, skiing was on the threshold of mass-participation. Maybe that's where the rot first set in for the Ski Club of Great Britain. The toffs were about to lose control to the Jocks, on home ground.
Skiing in 1962-3 - a British winter (the most severe for 300 years):
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-700/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/12/15/1292426263687/Skied-Milk-013.jpg
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Skiing and class/privilege.
This chap below has a similar tale from that snowy Winter.
Perhaps the elitist image of skiing would have disappeared sooner if Alf had continued to ski?
www.toughofthetrack.net/met_goldsmith.htm
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There appears to be a delay in publication of the Ski Club of Great Britain 2014 AGM minutes, as reported by SCGB member Olivia Gordon (who has twice been a member of the SCGB Council) ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/The-Ski-Club?discussionID=15033#.VMjbxFV1-uY
Ski Club Team on 5 January wrote: |
Hi Olivia - the minutes are due to be approved by the Council on 17 January, and will be posted online shortly after that.
Thanks,
The Ski Club |
The SCGB AGM was on 20 November 2014.
COMPETITION SPECIAL - WIN A BOOK!
A brand new copy of the 2015 edition of Ripley's 'Believe It Or Not' will be awarded to the snowHead who correctly guesses the date on which the SCGB 2014 AGM minutes are published. Karl Marx will pay for the postage and will liaise with admin to have this posted to the winner. admin's judgement on the publication date of these minutes will be final. Post your best guess of the date below. The first poster to post the correct date wins.
----------------------------------
Important note: Karl Marx is not a close relation (great great god-uncle, 23 times removed) of Groucho Marx, who once said "PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER". [Telegram to the Friar's Club of Beverly Hills to which he belonged, as recounted in Groucho and Me (1959)]
Karl Marx, [Communist Manifesto 2015, telegram to the Ski Club of Great Britain]: "PLEASE ACCEPT MY SUBSCRIPTION. I WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL EXPEL PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER"
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Put me down for the 3rd Feb.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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With so much love in the air - it has to be Feb 14th.
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27th feb
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