"Anyone who complains about this thread will be expelled from it"
Really!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
George Jones wrote:
And a person [Chris Glynne] clearly not in the SCGB for the freebies.....
George Jones wrote:
I notice you did not comment on my second sentence about freebies......
Very observant of you. Chris Glynne served the SCGB Council until 2013 and is not listed as a SCGB rep. He is passionate about defending the SCGB repping service, and is welcome to express any views on that subject in good faith. If you're trying to stir something, try a cup of tea.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SCGB insider wrote:
Anyone who complains about this thread will be expelled from it
And a person [Chris Glynne] clearly not in the SCGB for the freebies.....
George Jones wrote:
I notice you did not comment on my second sentence about freebies......
Very observant of you. Chris Glynne served the SCGB Council until 2013 and is not listed as a SCGB rep. He is passionate about defending the SCGB repping service, and is welcome to express any views on that subject in good faith. If you're trying to stir something, try a cup of tea.
Just pointing out that that notion of SCGB insiders who are only in it for the freebies does not apply to everyone.
Just pointing out that that notion of SCGB insiders who are only in it for the freebies does not apply to everyone.
That point is, of course, agreed. The term 'expenses-paid skiing' is perhaps more appropriate.
The SCGB budget for expenses-paid skiing is huge. The issue here is how this money is spent and what is gained from it, if one cares about the SCGB's best interests.
We can perhaps agree that there is 'no such thing as a freebie'. Every £100 spent on expenses-paid skiing ("freebies" if you prefer) is
(a) money that could probably be spent more productively or, better still,
(b) money that could probably be cut completely from the budget.
The problem is that the £100 sum seems to be spent way over 2000 times per annum, on the SCGB repping services alone. Then there's the money spent by other SCGB officials or executives.
Who controls the SCGB budget? If the budget controllers are personally benefiting from unproductive expenses-paid skiing, without proper checks and balances, there may be a major problem for the Club. It can completely cloud judgement and scrutiny.
DG believes that the half-price SCGB membership he was recently awarded was the reward of a monetary god, who appreciated this sort of Thatcher-inspired (household budget-inspired) attitude. It's ironic, because SCGB types probably vote Tory. It's doubly ironic in that DG certainly wouldn't.
[end of ski party political broadcast]
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
^ I think Ski Ambassadors will represent even poorer value than reps, leaders who are actually out on the piste with members. So I might be sympathetic to dispensing with their services.
I do not fully understand the sentence about half price membership. I suspect it is a ruse to gain new members in the hope they will stay and eventually pay full price.
After all it is free
After all it is free
George Jones wrote:
I do not fully understand the sentence about half price membership.
DG will be pleased to explain this to you, in the warmth and comfort of the Arnold Lunn library - rather than out on the pavement.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Maybe the French court should have taken into account that even when I lead a group and have my (legitimate) expenses paid, I'm still significantly out of pocket as I'm away from my business........
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
A TALE OF TWO EXPULSIONS not by Charles Dickens
What the Dickens is going on at BASI and the SCGB?
1. THE EXPULSION OF SIMON BUTLER from BASI, 1 NOVEMBER 2014
The SCGB's reasons for expelling David Goldsmith (DG) have not been made public. He asserts that the Articles of Association of Ski Club of Great Britain Ltd, which were used to expel him, are incompatible with the published Rules of the Ski Club of Great Britain, which were not complied with. He asserts that the expulsion was illegal under the Club's Rules, since he joined in 1987, and these Rules governed his membership. A non-confidential letter from the Club's Council confirmed his expulsion on 30 September 2013, referring to "defamatory or unfounded comments that may be damaging to the reputation of the Club." Removal of the comments was demanded, with the threat "Failure to comply with this request may result in Council deciding to take further legal action to best protect the interests of the Club. Although the letter made no reference to specific comments, the focus of the Club's concern appears to have been those made on the Winterhighland forum on 16 and 17 June 2013, as part of an open moderated discussion about the SCGB:
[page 13 of this thread] http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,148384,page=13
Following the SCGB's letter these comments were not removed by the Winterhighland moderators or DG.
On 6 January 2015, at 10.53hrs, the SCGB emailed DG an unsolicited offer of half-price SCGB membership (to his only active email address for 15+ years in communicating with the SCGB and all other parties). At approx 17.00, DG accepted this offer and provided a payment guarantee with bank information. At 17.16 the SCGB emailed a "membership confirmation" and "payment receipt" with the opening words "Dear David, Thank you for joining the Ski Club of Great Britain." The email stated "Your membership number will be emailed to you on the next working day" and "confirmation of your Direct Debit within 3 working days".
On 7 January 2015, a senior executive of the SCGB emailed DG to state "I can see that you have tried to join the Ski Club using the half price offer rolled out to Registered users. We are declining your application for membership, consistent with the communications you had from the Club terminating your previous membership."
On 16 January, the SCGB confirmed by phone that it would not process DG's membership, though DG asserts that his membership contract of 6 January is watertight.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sat 17-01-15 4:43; edited 3 times in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
SCGB insider wrote:
..The SCGB's reasons for expelling David Goldsmith (DG) have not been made public...
But a video of the ejection and DG's leaving speech is available on youtube....
So DG is toxic, and anything he says the SCGB will ignore, but it is truly great entertainment. And what a pin-head move by the 'club' - and great move by DG to exploit it. I'm smiling as I read (not exactly lol it's a bit late and some of the family are asleep). This repeating saga, much like Nixmap is a great S/head institution and I love it.
(quietly).
A Snowheads institution, I guess I can really say I have arrived...
Thanks for your kind words, it does make a differences that some Snowheads continue to support my efforts to share.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
nixmap wrote:
A Snowheads institution, I guess I can really say I have arrived...
Only if you're in the business of expulsions. Does nixmap have 'Articles of Association'?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This Sunday morning, as was the same yesterday, the SCGB is reporting 4 out of 5 Scottish ski areas "closed". In fact, the huge snowstorms of the past week have carpeted Cairngorm, Glencoe, Glenshee, Nevis Range and The Lecht, and operations crews have been working for days to open lifts for this weekend. This is a great weekend for Scottish skiing, with hopefully many many more this winter.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
THE TRUE PICTURE
According to the SCGB today, Cairngorm Mountain is "closed". In fact, 6 lifts on Cairngorm are open, giving access to this magnificent terrain - the Coire na Ciste and West Wall, with a descent to the Ciste carpark:
On past experience, the information will be updated at 13.30 Monday ... so it's wrong for 3 out of 7 days. Reporting Scottish ski areas "closed" - for the entire weekend, when they are open - is economically damaging. This SCGB misinformation has literally been going on for years.
^ At the AGM where you were at the door, the CEO stated that he aimed to grow membership via Internet hits on the Club's website.
I did think at the time that many people would bypass the club and go straight to the resort websites, though an "Overview" twice a week may be of interest if you are undecided about where to go.
Life has moved on since newspaper snow reports and sourcing last minute chalet deals via the Travel section of "The Sunday Times".
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
SCGB insider wrote:
A TALE OF TWO EXPULSIONS not by Charles Dickens
What the Dickens is going on at BASI and the SCGB?
1. THE EXPULSION OF SIMON BUTLER from BASI, 1 NOVEMBER 2014
2. THE EXPULSION OF DAVID GOLDSMITH from SCGB, 30 SEPTEMBER 2013
Delusions of grandeur again Mr Goldsmith.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Scrumpy wrote:
Delusions of grandeur again Mr Goldsmith.
The only person suffering from delusions is you, sunshine.
Do you recall publicly posting this email on 7 January, on page 87?
Scrumpy wrote:
From Ski Club Chief Executive :
"Morning (Scrumpy),
Thank you for your note. To confirm Mr Goldsmith’s application was rejected and he is not a member of the Club.
Thanks and best wishes for a great 2015.
Frank"
The delusion you bag-carried was that an "application" for SCGB membership had been made. In fact, as must be crystal-clear to you, an unsolicited offer of half-price SCGB membership was accepted by Mr Goldsmith, with a payment guarantee receipted by the Club, and a SCGB confirmation of membership issued (15 minutes later).
There was no "application rejected" ... because there was no application.
Are you now in a position to put the record straight?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
As a point of interest, a SCGB board meeting appears to have been held two days ago (Saturday) ...
Olivia Gordon: "Please can you let me know when these will be available online."
Ski Club Team: "Hi Olivia - the minutes are due to be approved by the Council on 17 January, and will be posted online shortly after that."
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@SCGB insider, you're misinformation regarding the Ski club site is tiring and boring. The SCGB has not been listing Scottish resorts a s being closed.
This is what it says on the Ski Club site re Scottish conditions (from Jan 15th, last Thursday):
"Another huge snowstorm swept through Scotland on Wednesday night and heavy snow accompanied by high winds (up to 111mph gusts) is expected to continue through into Friday. Power has been lost at all resorts at some point due to the severe weather but there have been some huge accumulations of snow, although with the high winds the snow will be anything but level. The skiing will be vastly improved and all resorts should open up once the weather calms down on Saturday and Sunday, although significant storm recovery is likely to delay lift operations. Better reports will be available on Friday once the hills have been accessed, so check then with the resorts for the latest information."
Glencoe was listed as open for weekend skiing last Thursday. There is also a very prominent link on all Scottish resort pages stating "Changing weather conditions in Scottish resorts mean lift operations change frequently. click here for latest information' The link is through to http://ski.visitscotland.com/conditions/
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@philipb, that is only correct in the sense that the SCGB Scottish information has not been updated for 3 days.
This link to skiclub.co.uk clearly indicates (at the time of posting - 12.18, Monday) 4 Scottish ski areas "closed" - as the obvious summary of the information - which has not been updated for 3 days ...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
SCGB insider wrote:
The delusion you bag-carried was that an "application" for SCGB membership had been made. In fact, as must be crystal-clear to you, an unsolicited offer of half-price SCGB membership was accepted by Mr Goldsmith, with a payment guarantee receipted by the Club, and a SCGB confirmation of membership issued (15 minutes later).
There was no "application rejected" ... because there was no application.
Are you now in a position to put the record straight?
You thought that you were invited to apply and did so - although you knew your application would not be welcome.
whatever you filled in on line has to fall under the Club's Articles of Association - which apply as follows :
Quote:
and every member of the Club [.... ] shall submit an application for membership in such form and
containing such particulars as the Council may from time to time determine and on paying
the appropriate entrance fee, if any, and annual subscription as specified by the Council.
The Council and its representatives may [refuse any applications on such grounds as it sees
fit on which it shall have absolute discretion. Notwithstanding the provisions above, no
person may be admitted to membership of the Club or to any of the privileges of
membership without an interval of at least two days between their application for
membership and their admission
You could not become a member without "applying" - and in your case the application was rejected. Simples.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Scrumpy, I think DG has a point (albeit a pointless and droll one).
The said 'application' is not applicable as the club had already considered the applicant's position for application by sending a solicited invitation for membership rather than application via email. Of course I have no idea about the small print on the email, nor the small print on the applic... *ahem* acceptance of membership page or T&C's
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Scrumpy, that all looks very questionable. You've quoted two incomplete sentences (at the beginning and ending of the quote), with an errant square bracket. Are you a competent person?
Could you kindly link to the full document in question? Presumably it's online, if it's operative to someone accepting an offer of SCGB membership. DG only recalls agreeing the 'terms and conditions' on the SCGB site - are you seriously saying that this 'Articles of Association' document is integral to the membership contract?
The word "application" simply doesn't apply (sic) - DG accepted an unsolicited offer of membership. Any "absolute discretion" - insofar as it is relevant - was clearly applied (sic) between the time the SCGB received DG's acceptance of the membership offer (c.17.00hrs on 6 Jan) and the time the membership confirmation and payment receipt was emailed (17.16 pm on 6 Jan)
Also ...
You are aware that Mr Goldsmith's expulsion from the SCGB in September 2013 was illegal under the published Rules of the Ski Club of Great Britain, aren't you?
You clearly need reminding of the exact text of the membership confirmation email the SCGB sent on 6 Jan 2015:
Quote:
Tue, 6 Jan 2015 at 17:16
Ski Club membership confirmation
Dear David,
Thank you for joining the Ski Club of Great Britain.
Your payment receipt
Name David Goldsmith
Membership number Your membership number will be emailed to you on the next working day
Payment for Ski Club Membership: Individual
Payment ref XXX-XXXXXXXX
Amount £31.50
Date 06 January 2015
Direct Debit The Ski Club membership team will email you with confirmation of your Direct Debit within 3 working days
Logging in to skiclub.co.uk
Once you've received your membership number, you'll be able to log in using your membership number or email address and your password.
Your Ski Club membership card and membership pack will be sent separately in the next couple of weeks.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@SCGB insider, The Memorandum & Articles are the constitution of the The Ski Club of Great Britain Limited.
They superseded the old "Rules" you keep going on about in 2001, when the Ltd Co took over all assets, rights and obligations etc. from the unincorporated Club.
Of course you must know this - you can't pretend that all that passed you by ?
As you stayed in the new Club, you must have accepted the new Memorandum & Articles of Association - otherwise by definition you would have been a member of "nothing".
Your much more recent expulsion was in compliance with the Articles :
Quote:
9. WITHDRAWAL OF MEMBERSHIP
9.1 The Council may at any time by written notice sent by pre-paid post to his last
known address request a Member to withdraw from membership of the Club. Such
notice shall be sent only if the majority of the Council present and voting at a
properly convened and constituted meeting of the Council so decides and must
specify the reason for the request and advise the Member of his rights to make
representations to the Council.
9.2 Any Member requested to withdraw from membership of the Club by the Council
shall be entitled to submit written representations to the Council as to why he should
remain a Member, such representations to be delivered to the Secretary within one
calendar month of the date of the notice requesting him to withdraw.
9.3 If any Member requested to withdraw from membership under Article 9.1 shall fail to
deliver to the Secretary written representations as to why he should remain a 10
Member within the time for so doing that Member shall thereupon cease to be a
Member and his name shall be erased from the Register of Members.
9.4 Any Member who is requested to withdraw from Membership under Article 9.1 and
shall make written representations within the time for so doing shall remain a
Member until such time as a properly convened and constituted meeting of the
Council shall consider such representations and confirm or reverse its decision.
9.5 In the event of the Council confirming its decision following the consideration of the
representations made by such Member, that Member shall thereupon cease to be a
Member and his name shall be erased from the Register of Members and he shall
be notified accordingly
Despite you telling us to the contrary, there is no requirement for you to have been allowed representations in person - only in writing.
On the previous post I omitted wording relating to members at handover, in 1991 and yes, made a bit of a hash of adding italics and bold.
It still remains that the only way to join is for the prospective member to apply - even if there is an invitation to apply. The use of automated computer systems to process the initial applications is quite normal. In your case, the two day rule has proved it's metal - it gave time for your application to be rejected - as you knew full well it would be. I doubt very much whether any other application has been rejected.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Scrumpy, the events of 2001 - the railroaded introduction of SCGB Ltd (the modified off-the-shelf document you're quoting from was never circulated to members) - and the minutes of the AGM concerned are certainly worth reviewing.
Your assertions are worthless, because you are publicly representing a stitch-up on two levels (an illegal expulsion (Sep 2013) and - much more recently (Jan 2015) - a denied membership contract).
Regarding the former, you really need to address SCGB attitudes to standard British justice, since it is central to our way of life. It is - of course - unknown for any British quasi-judicial/disciplinary/expulsion process to deny the accused the right to face his/her accusers.
Since you're so avidly quoting this disgraceful document, you have a duty to confirm that the original constitution - the published Rules - of the Ski Club of Great Britain (which evolved from 1903 to 2001) reign supreme in 2015. Your assertions are rejected absolutely.
Further up this page there's a reference to the process - on 1 November 2014 - to which Simon Butler was subjected (courtesy of BASI), described by his lawyers as a 'kangaroo court'. Are you also familiar with the historic British 'dark art' of 'blackballing'?
'Scrumpy' is clearly some sort of stooge for elements in the Ski Club of Great Britain. 'Scrumpy' is challenged to quote the published Rules (Expulsion) of the Ski Club of Great Britain - the ones that afford members of the SCGB conventional British justice.
'Scrumpy' is also challenged to reveal the authorship and full provenance of the document quoted above - the 'Articles of Association' of Ski Club of Great Britain Limited, to confirm that it was never circulated to SCGB members, and to reveal how it was breezed through the 2001 annual general meeting.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@SCGB insider, As I have said before, I am a SCGB member who enjoys Freshtracks holidays, skiing with the Leaders and the discounts (with holidays, walking gear and skis, we have saved c.£400 this year)
I was a SCGB member in 2001, but lived "oop north" in those days, without home internet access at that time and so have no knowledge at all about the conversion from a Club to a company limited by guarantee - so can't help you there at all.
However, I cannot believe that Mr Know It All aka David Goldsmith did not know about it - so please stop acting the injured party.
It is you who are not accepting the legally constituted Club :
Quote:
THE COMPANIES ACT 1985
COMPANY LIMITED BY GUARANTEE
AND NOT HAVING A SHARE CAPITAL
___________________________________
M E M O R A N D U M O F A S S O C I A T I O N O F
SKI CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN LIMITED
____________________________________
1. The name of the Company is Ski Club of Great Britain Limited referred to in this
Memorandum of Association as 'the Club'. Unless stated to the contrary within this
document, words and expressions shall have the same meaning as set out in the Articles of
Association of the Club.
2. The registered office of the Club shall be situated in England.
3. The objects for which the Club is established are:
3.1 To acquire and undertake all properties and liabilities and to carry out the powers,
obligations, duties and general objects of the present unincorporated association
known as the Ski Club of Great Britain and to indemnify the Ski Club of Great
Britain, its officers, Members, members of its council and any committees, its
representatives and its employees against all costs, claims, demands, actions and
proceedings relating to the assets and undertaking of the Ski Club of Great Britain
and in respect of all liabilities, obligations and commitments (whether legally binding
or not) of the Ski Club of Great Britain and also in respect of the costs and expenses
and outgoings arising from or attributable to the transfer of assets and undertaking;
The new Memorandum and Articles replaced whatever Rules you are asking me to quote.
My assertions cannot be worthless - they follow the logic of the written constitution (M & A of Assn), whether you like it or not.
Your old " Rules" have been obsolete for 14 years - get over it.
@Scrumpy, whilst I do not believe all of his arguments are without merit, his methods are very much so and the bottom line is
"He won't get over it anytime soon"
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@ansta1, - not my problem !
Anyway - it is now clear to all of us the DG has been railing against an entity that he now professes to know nothing about - everything he has said since 2001 is utter B$%^^ox
Anyway - it is now clear to all of us the DG has been railing against an entity that he now professes to know nothing about - everything he has said since 2001 is utter B$%^^ox
On the contrary. You are all over the 2001 'constitution' of Ski Club of Great Britain Limited - the commercial stitch-up* created to commercially exploit members of the SCGB from 2001 - because it's your one lifeline in trying to prove that a valid expulsion of David Goldsmith has taken place. Since you now have the document, why not quote the disgraceful 'expulsion clauses'? Everyone will then see that document for what it is.
What matters here are the published Rules of the Ski Club of Great Britain [which make DG's expulsion illegal]. The Ski Club of Great Britain (not SCGB Ltd) is the organisation founded in 1903 and refined over 9 decades by people - primarily in the Club's first 5 decades - who actually built British skiing and created a citadel to it on Eaton Square. They were people of altruistic honour who actually understood what a club is supposed to be. They were people who understood the primacy of British justice, and the essential right of free people to face their accusers in courts of law (or the equivalent) before a verdict or sentence is passed.
Why not quote the expulsion clauses of the Ski Club of Great Britain Rules too, while you're about it? That way, the two sets of clauses can be compared and contrasted.
* In fairness, it should be stressed that the principal reason given for 'commercialising' / 'incorporating' the Ski Club of Great Britain was to "protect it from carpetbaggers".
Of course, there is plenty of 'bagging of carpet' at the Ski Club - though not the full floorcovering. It is those who bag and blag - travel, accommodation, liftpasses and the rest - who have so much to lose from a change to the status quo.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@SCGB insider, I have quoted the expulsion clauses above. (9-10 posts up)
Legally, limited companies are usually set up to protect members from personal financial liabilities. I do not know why the Council decided to take that route at that time.
I have no access to obsolete documents.
The old "published Rules" to which you refer do not matter.
There is no point in us arguing about the current legal constitution of the SCGB - it exists however much you dislike it. It has existed for around 13-14 years.
And, sorry to spoil your day, the earth is not flat.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@SCGB insider, you have now added to your last post a comment which shows that you were fully aware of the changes. So why pretend they don't exist now?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
