 Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, A lot of what you say is true - I'd be interested to know if the BASI peeps talked to the ESF in French though? I too, as a resident and tax payer in an alpine village dependent on tourism, resent the "seasonaires" who just come for the money. Most of the European ski school guys earn more than me, pay no local taxes, and speak almost no french. Of course we resent it!
OTOH there's no excuse for the ESF behaving like that, but I found the best way is to be able to abuse them in french if necessary!
David Murdoch, see above.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The ESF Instructor started the abuse in English, then our trainer told him to continue the conversation in French so as to avoid the conversation being understood by his class, he also told him in French that in front of his class was neither the time nor the place for such discussion, and that they should continue this in the ESF office. Our Trainer has been based in Les Gets every winter for the last 14 years.
On a slightly different point I notice that ESF Morzine are trying to recruit BASI Instructors for this season, as they have an advert in BASI news. Maybe they are worried by the British business being lost to BASS?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, She may not ski as well as you, but if she has a particular level of skiing ability she may very well be a better teacher to beginners than others that may have far superior skiing abilities.
easiski, I totally agree with the numbers issue. That is why you pay a little more. You do however get, in my opinion better instruction from smaller groups and native speakers. If you want to go in a large group for the craic, fine but if you want to learn more, one would be better off in a smaller group with native speaker. Back to the origional post, you pay for what you get.
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Spyderman, ESF Morzine have been trying to change simply to keep up with client demand. As I'm sure you know, most of the season much of the client base is English or Dutch speaking. AFAIK, the ski school is not so much "worried" by BASS but certainly recognisant that its presence indicates a client demand.
There have been a number of changes made recently in Morzine that have resulted in a number of ESF instructors splintering off as their "positions" stop being protected.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Here is a perspective..... you have been skiing since the age of 3..racing for most of your teens, still live in the village and your families business can only support so many bods. what else are yo u going to do...? ah..be a ski instructor like everyone else in the years before...only now the market has been forced open and there are 'city boys..or girls' and anyone from out of town and the work gets thin... Of course, there is protectionism..every industry would love to have it.
As for working at the thing you love...well, after a good few years even that can be a chore.
If it were me looking for an instructor, I would pick the keenest, most referred perosn I could find but sometimes to turn up that jewel you may have to pick a couple of stinkers. Personal referrals are the way for me, you'd do it with a builder and a plumber etc etc.....
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| JT wrote: |
| Personal referrals are the way for me, you'd do it with a builder and a plumber etc etc..... |
I agree, but that strategy only works if you are selecting a named instructor for your tuition. If you are signing up for a shared lesson or weekly class where the ski school assigns the instructor you won't know who you will get until the start of the lesson. You might end up with a brilliant instructor who has embraced new technique and has a passion for teaching, or you might end up with the old guy who stubbornly refuses to do anything other than ski with his legs together, initiates turns from the shoulder and who has no interest in seeing his students improve. For a number of years I've tried to reduce the risk of the latter scenario by opting for small, independent ski schools where I believe the proportion of poor instructors is very much lower than the large, mainstream ski schools that seem to dominate most resorts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, good for him (speaking French) - who is it?
The problems vary from resort to resort, but TBH there are a lot of really quite arrogant young Brit instructors out there who make nil effort to either fit in, commit to the resort or cotnribute to the community in any way. It's natural that peeps who do the above will be resentful. No excuse for poor work though, and certainly no excuse for pushing children.
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easiski - I know the instructor involved in the pushing incident and will be careful about what I say...
| easiski wrote: |
| ...but TBH there are a lot of really quite arrogant young Brit instructors out there who make nil effort to either fit in, commit to the resort or cotnribute to the community in any way... |
...certainly isn't the case though. I'm sure the general thrust is true though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
good for him (speaking French) - who is it?
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Hugh Monney
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've known Hugh since 1978 when we skied together at Hillingdon dry slope.
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You know it makes sense.
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hmm well if this is a "how long have I known Hugh Monney" thread I suspect he did his first turns here in South Mordor www.skicardiff.com
He did quite well for a beginner 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| professorpool wrote: |
I think it is absolutely terrible the amounts of money that resort workers of all shapes and sizes get paid but the economics of supply and demand apply still, also, we all get cheaper holidays.
I'm all heads and tales now anyway!
As a matter of probably "neither here nor there" interest now, I have booked 3x private lessons each for the pairings of the two small kids and my wife and eldest son (14) who are roughly similar ability wise and one refresher lesson for me to iron out bugs and examine new techniques/equipment.
7x 35 euros in total = 245 euros
All with 360 international: http://www.skisurf360.com
Ski passes wrre 650 ish euros for 5x 8 day passes.
5 year old did have to pay btw, whomever thought that was free.
My very first memory of ski instruction was "ben. zee neeze"  |
I've been and returned from this trip now and the debate is STILL raging!
LMAO!
Anyway, here's what happened..
The resort was light on snow so a lot of the runs were closed, however, this had little impact (except to make the total spent on ski passes about 200 e less than that quoted) on my aims really as the primary mission was to get the two youngest on the snow for the first time and to see Santa in the snow of course.
We arrived around 9am on Sat 23rd of December, got kit for the bins, passes and wotnot and booked in the accomodation. 1st lessons were at 2pm that afternoon so after a bite, we took em on the snow for a looksee.
Fred of 360 International arrived promptly and took everyone up on the bubble. I went and did my own thing.
Day one was about getting used to the skis and "walking up and skiing down" a really small slope. Next morning I took off skiing and spent the entire morning doing exactly the same whilst my wife and eldest put into practise what they had learnt from Jerome the previous day.
Day two we were joined by Waldo. Originally I was going to have a refresher and debug and exam new equipment/techniques. We binned this and put each of the bins with one instructor each and they were taken up the mountain for their first proper trip down the Chavanne.
Day three saw me take the kids down the easy green, as they had been taken down before followed by a follow up lesson back to Fred on his own. Followed by a couple more runs down the hill with me.
We added a fourth one hor lesson for the bins where Fred added a bit more. By the end of this they were doing short parallel runs and stops and Fred declared "they can now ski with you".
Now this is where I disagree with a few things said.
Mission 1 - get the kids enjoying snow
Mission 2 - get them skiing
Mission 3 - give them enough skill to get down the mountain.
This is beginner skiing for a five year old and a seven year old! You don't need an ex-olympic athlete superduper geezer from Milton Keynes with a black jacket and a tendency to minesweep at parties. All this "a french instructor cannot give technical instruction as well as an english one because they do not have enough English" is poppy cock I'm afraid, imho. Fred was perfect. He spoke good english. Certainly good enough. Not once did I witness him failing to communicate with my bins. My kids can now count to 100 in French and a dozen other simple phrases and stuff. What English instructors give that cultural extra?
Also, not once did I see him on the hill with anybody but kids so I guess this is his speciality.
As far as I am concerned, Fred achieved his mission.
As far as I am concerned, Fred changed my childrens lives.
As far as I am concerned, Fred changed MY life.
I could not recommend Fred at 360 more highly and to think he was half the price of Brit instructors too.
That'll do for me. Roll on Easter!
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Poster: A snowHead
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No idea who hugh is but I known a few hueys in my time - mostly after too many beers..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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professorpool,
Sounds perfect to me.... but people can only give the advice that they know works.
I'm glad it all worked out so well
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Forgot to add that as their desire for knowledge grows, then more lessons will follow inevitably..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I did indeed alter my position based on what people have posted.
I think groups have their place too, especially for adults and certainly did not hinder my eldest who is now very very good indeed having had 2 weeks on snow - 5 years apart.
Once you get beyond the beginner stage - it has to be private though I think.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 1-01-07 12:41; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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professorpool, Which Jerome ? JB or Jerome Show ? ( Tall or short ?)
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professorpool, really glad it worked out so well - put a plug for Fred in the "recommended Instructors" thread. BTW - I make the kids speak French - bonjour, au revoir, merci etc. and get them to read the signs and work out what they say, and order in French etc, etc. I think it's essential, as is bits of info about the mountains, the animals, their lives, avalanches, weather, whatever - not just skiing. 
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| Agenterre wrote: |
| professorpool, Which Jerome ? JB or Jerome Show ? ( Tall or short ?) |
About 5'8" maybe - the guvner says?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| easiski wrote: |
| professorpool, really glad it worked out so well - put a plug for Fred in the "recommended Instructors" thread. BTW - I make the kids speak French - bonjour, au revoir, merci etc. and get them to read the signs and work out what they say, and order in French etc, etc. I think it's essential, as is bits of info about the mountains, the animals, their lives, avalanches, weather, whatever - not just skiing. |
Did that already..
easiski, from your posts generally, I have no doubt whatsoever that you are a class instructor of the very highest degree.
Don't mistake generalisations for criticisms of your own ability!
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professorpool, Jerome Show ... married to a Brit .., glad you learnt about easiski, she is held in more reverence than The Pope by those around here who have been taught by her 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FAQ
sounds like your kids did great.
), sounds like it won't be too long before you'll be doing the same 
