 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was working remote here the other week. On BBC in Nov.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What a difference a week makes.
Snowing in Glencoe
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Turns have been made on cairngorm as well!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Turns have been made on cairngorm as well! |
That's good news*
* Although I bet they didn't use the funicular to get up to the top! 
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Magnificent. It’s going off already. Hats off to anyone enjoying laying down the base layer turns of the season. Saw some great pictures on fb where the sight Snow patches of Scotland was not searching for patches no more. ( opens hip flask and does the highland fling out)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@kitenski, very nice.....blue skies, rolling dunes, wind breakers.....can almost hear the waves, welcome to Miami
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Some very scrapy turns there.
Time to open the resort and get them some carve lessons.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Snowsports update for the coming season from Nevis Range: https://www.nevisrange.co.uk/snowsports-23-and-24/
TLDR:
1. They are making a big loss every winter
2. They aim to open daily this winter (unlike last winter)
3. Braveheart, Warrens, Great Glen mothballed until funds allow for refurbishment (maybe Rob Roy too?)
4. Ski hire only open at weekends
5. Ski school shut down (independent groups still allowed to operate though)
6. No season passes to be sold, but 5/10/15 day packs available instead
Also some explanations around investments / snowmaking which seems to be an attempt to address criticism from last season.
I dislike the "corporate speak" that Nevis Range seem to have adopted over the last few years (especially compared to Glencoe), with their glossy social media updates not really painting the whole picture. The press release above was posted on Facebook with a very selective summary which made it sound like all the changes were positive ones, and with comments disabled. This sort of spin makes me sceptical about their claims that they plan to refurbish all the closed lifts, for example.
I do have some sympathy for them, in that their location makes it more difficult to attract the Central Belt masses, and the ski area is not as well sited as Cairngorm or Glencoe in terms of snowholding. So that makes it more difficult to be profitable.
What do others think?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@denfinella, the back corries are a gold mine that Nevis has completely failed to utilise IMHO. I've come up from Leeds a few times and they were unable to tell me if the area would/could open never mind if Braveheart would run. I went to Glencoe instead and scored some lovely Scottish powder!
They should be shouting loud and proud about the huge off piste bowls they have, which hold snow really well, perhaps offer a back bowls ticket with one uplift to the top and one downlift only and encourage people to ski the back bowls and then skin back up etc etc
Glencoe & Glenshee seem to be the 2 resorts welcoming skiers vs 'Gorm and Nevis putting up with them IMHO. Interesting that both have expensive infrastructure (funicular and gondola) which can make money from MTB, walkers etc.....
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| kitenski wrote: |
@denfinella, the back corries are a gold mine that Nevis has completely failed to utilise IMHO. I've come up from Leeds a few times and they were unable to tell me if the area would/could open never mind if Braveheart would run. I went to Glencoe instead and scored some lovely Scottish powder!
They should be shouting loud and proud about the huge off piste bowls they have, which hold snow really well, perhaps offer a back bowls ticket with one uplift to the top and one downlift only and encourage people to ski the back bowls and then skin back up etc etc
Glencoe & Glenshee seem to be the 2 resorts welcoming skiers vs 'Gorm and Nevis putting up with them IMHO. Interesting that both have expensive infrastructure (funicular and gondola) which can make money from MTB, walkers etc..... |
Which are now the only people that Nevis and Gorm are remotely interested in. Coach parties paying to go up in the gondi and funi to buy coffee, cake, take a photo and buy a tea towel.
I cba with either of them these days, it may be a more "rustic" experience at Coe and Shee, but at least they are catering for us skiers - thats where I have gone in Scotland in the last 10 years or so, and I genuinely cant see it ever changing now.
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You know it makes sense.
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My most recent experience of skiing Nevis Range was at some races in April, there was the option of running them at any of the Scottish ski centres but Nevis had the best snow.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Need to see more detail on how they're "losing £1m per ski season".
They're losing roughly £10,000 per day (assuming Dec-Apr).
Big loss, for a tiny resort.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| haggishunter wrote: |
| Unsurprising, and though not quite as bad as the rumours that had been going around it stinks of the dead hand of HIE! |
So my thoughts....
Also cross-posted on the other thread : https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=166020
I don't like the bad news from Aonach Mor.
However I am going to salute Nevis Range for delivering unwelcome message in honest and candid manner.
I am massive advocate of Scottish snowsports. Grew up skiing here and want my kids to experience the same.
However it needs to be acknowledged the Scottish ski "eco-system" is presently looking fragile:
i) Snow dome to be demolished
ii) Nevis Range going to limited opening. Braveheart and Warrens mothballed. No season pass sales or ski school
iii) Cairngorm funicular remains f--ked despite HIE spending £20 million on it. Will it open this winter?
iv) Glenshee seemed to be limited to Cairnwell & Sunnyside only last winter
Climate change is a real challenge.
Scottish skiing was always marginal with mountains at 1000m.
Plus none of the resorts have ever fully recovered from covid closures.
Since 2020 we had 2x winters of covid blank followed by a no snow-season in 2023.
What all the resorts need is a decent 2024 snow-season.
That is not the entire story though.
Certainly HIE need to be removed from having any future influence at Cairngorm and Nevis Range.
The funding for the funicular has been to detriment of the ski-area (and other areas in Scotland).
There needs to be recognition that while ski areas might lose money they bring visitors to the Highlands during the winter period, which would otherwise be low-season for tourism.
I remain hopeful that Nevis Range will endure the storm.
The hotel, conference centre, and bike tracks means they should have sustainable summer business (unlike Cairngorm).
If they can make money in summer (8 months of year) and employee staff year round then assuming we get snow the winter (4 months) will look after itself.
Oddly Glencoe seems uniquely placed to endure the challenges
- close to central belt
- small ski area. nimble operation that can ramp up if / when snow arrives
- snowsure on upper-runs.
Having said all that I am still hopefully we will still get some decent Scottish winters in the future.
As ever you just need to be opportunistic and willing to take advantage when periods of good snow and weather arrive.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There does appear to be two camps regarding who the customer is. It is similar in Europe too where certain demographics are encouraged in some resorts and repelled in others.
It could largely be due to the ownership, or the control of the management. However, it does separate and splinter the skiing/snowboarding community.
You cannot cater for all demographics, and some, like Cairngorm, cater less for hard core skiers and snowboarders and try to make money out of the ancillery apres ski activities.
I always like to look at things on a marginal cost basis, rather than losses which take into account huge amounts of depreciation on already sunk costs. On a marginal cost basis, things may not be so bad.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The ski industry in Scotland has collapsed 40-70% in the past 25-50 years.
And nobody has the skills to stop the rot.
Been reading these Scotland threads for years. And every year it's the same old problems. Only worse.
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It is perhaps telling that things like ski hire and ski lessons are things being cut to save money. The bottom line is what are the costs of operating and maintaining lifts which already exist, and bashing pistes when there is snow. Compared to the revenue on those days, one would expect it to be extremely profitable on those days.
You have to cut out the expenses which are non essential to opening when there is snow. (as well as those when there is no snow)
Then if you must add these other expenses in, separate them and try to assess what extra revenue is gained by spending that money.
You cannot be all things to all men. That makes losses.
I used to sell ice-cream from a van. There is a lot of money made on sunny days in the right location. Once you have bought and paid for the van, the question is not how much losses you make each day in the summer. You have laid the carpet by buying the van. What is important is whether it is worth taking the van to a location, paying the location charges in order to sell ice-cream, and the costs of the ice-cream.
This is called loss minimisation, as you have already sunk the overhead costs of being in that business.
If it makes a loss on a marginal basis, you might as well sell the lot for £1 and let someone else have a go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bigtipper - too intelligent for most of my profession (accountant)
I am so sad at what has happened. I learned to ski at Cairngorm and the potential for the area must have been massive with a few well placed chair lifts and yet.....bigger is better - dont go for simple, go for show and big projects. Yes, climate can be marginal but as bigtipper says - it is about managing that marginality.
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Yes the original CorrieCas, Corrie na ciste and car park tbars will have paid for themselves many times over and will probably long outlast the funicular.
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| Quote: |
and will long outlast the funicular.
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FIFY 
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Posted on the other thread
Skied Nevis Range on Friday 20 March 2020, two days before we went in to the first lockdown
Superb conditions with unlimited visibility and boot top powder in the Back Bowls
Skied Glencoe the day before with similar conditions and was blown away by the whole area - sights, skiing, food & drink, welcome, value for money
It's a real shame that Mother Nature doesn't consistently play ball because both are up there as ski experiences
I think it's a great press release and a very sensible solution to an unsolvable problem
There are plenty of places around the ski world which are open part time
This could be the making and saving of the area
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mike Pow, Not sure its a great press release for us skiers tbh.
What concerns me is staff - will there be enough to work the hill when there is enough snow? Given the huge losses they articulate in the press release, I imagine that a big part of that loss is staffing costs - and while they can move some people from other roles when ski conditions are good, it sounds a bit of a mess.
It genuinely wouldnt surprise me to see another snowsports press release in a year or two which starts "Regrettably, despite all our investment......canning skiing support.........concentrate on MTB, conference and sightseeing trips in the gondi".
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| GreenDay wrote: |
@Mike Pow, Not sure its a great press release for us skiers tbh.
What concerns me is staff - will there be enough to work the hill when there is enough snow? Given the huge losses they articulate in the press release, I imagine that a big part of that loss is staffing costs - and while they can move some people from other roles when ski conditions are good, it sounds a bit of a mess.
It genuinely wouldnt surprise me to see another snowsports press release in a year or two which starts "Regrettably, despite all our investment......canning skiing support.........concentrate on MTB, conference and sightseeing trips in the gondi". |
That's a given
I meant it was well crafted and explained
If winter continues to disappoint, then surely that's good business sense
It's like trying to run a waterskiing operation in a dried out lake bed in Central Australia
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
That's a given
I meant it was well crafted and explained
If winter continues to disappoint, then surely that's good business sense
It's like trying to run a waterskiing operation in a dried out lake bed in Central Australia |
Gotcha.
Couldnt quite believe the section on people abusing staff, death threats etc..........do people really think "aye, its the staffs fault the lifts not running....." 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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^ The obvious fear is that stripping the skiing back at Nevis Range might becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
1) No season passes. Fort William ocals and families will choose to ski at Glencoe as result.
Season pass revenue traditionally helped protect resorts against variable winters.
2) Braveheart lift was the unique selling point of Nevis Range.
If it is shut (or not patrolled) then how many people will ski there?
3) No ski hire / ski school. Perhaps a sensible cut back, but limits ability to make profit if/when we get a snowy period.
Ultimately I think Nevis Range will now be much more selective about if and when they open.
A day pass is listed as £42 on their website.
If conditions are good I might still pop up on occasion and hopefully ski the back coire for old times sake.
However not sure I will be rushing past Glencoe if it is just the Goose t-bar running.
| GreenDay wrote: |
What concerns me is staff - will there be enough to work the hill when there is enough snow? Given the huge losses they articulate in the press release, I imagine that a big part of that loss is staffing costs - and while they can move some people from other roles when ski conditions are good, it sounds a bit of a mess. It genuinely wouldnt surprise me to see another snowsports press release in a year or two which starts "Regrettably, despite all our investment......canning skiing support.........concentrate on MTB, conference and sightseeing trips in the gondi". |
Agree - the challenge for the Scottish ski areas to keep staff meaningfully employed year round so that they can be nimble and open for snowsports when snow does arrive.
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Meanwhile Glencoe just got delivery of the rental snowboards.
They are also advertising for a ski hire and Ski school manager.
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You know it makes sense.
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A significant proportion of Nevis Range’s skier days have in recent years been local school groups, that’s gone with no ski school or weekday rentals.
With regards the no season pass stance. It’s actually a pretty insulting insinuation against the other ski areas, to say season passes can’t be sold with good conscience!
Further, it clearly suggests the reality will be minimal effort will be made to open outside weekends.
This kind of low key, no ski school, no weekday hire, limited patrolling approach might actually have been more viable if the lifts they’d kept open were the Alpha, Warrens and Braveheart, and gone very much at the advanced / all mountain / side country segment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@GlasgowCyclops,
Any idea when the season tickets for Glencoe will be released 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| ...the challenge for the Scottish ski areas to keep staff meaningfully employed year round so that they can be nimble and open for snowsports when snow does arrive. |
it's a shame that skiing can't be run on a volunteer basis, like the "English" ski areas
Probably too large, and too many issues with elf 'n safety, but I'm sure (with a small core of qualified staff in control) there would be plenty of folks willing to help out in exchange for free skiing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| geoffers wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...the challenge for the Scottish ski areas to keep staff meaningfully employed year round so that they can be nimble and open for snowsports when snow does arrive. |
it's a shame that skiing can't be run on a volunteer basis, like the "English" ski areas
Probably too large, and too many issues with elf 'n safety, but I'm sure (with a small core of qualified staff in control) there would be plenty of folks willing to help out in exchange for free skiing |
Never mind keeping staff meaningfully employed all year. The biggest problem for Glencoe, Glenshee and the Lecht is finding enough staff to be barely functional. Thanks Brexiteers!
While the direct staff loss numbers are small the more remote 3 in particular have really suffered from local staff leaving to take up jobs in town without the travelling, vacated by EU citizens who have left because of Brexit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Snowing in Glencoe. Fingers crossed.
Even down to the car park.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@snowheid, not sure when the season tickets are out. I know there is going to be a new ticket system in place, if not already.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So, we're now into November, what's the chances of the Cairngorm funicular being fixed and back in service this month? I'm not holding my breath..... 
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| So, we're now into November, what's the chances of the Cairngorm funicular being fixed and back in service this month? I'm not holding my breath..... |
Now the website banner is that surface lifts will open when there is sufficient snow and season passes will be available then.
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Getting there
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Is glenshee going to get enough snow on Friday for decent conditions on the weekend?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No.
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Plateau Poma now open at Glencoe with longer green runs open, so plugging the gap in terrain for mid ability levels that’s been a problem recently across Scotland.
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FAQ
