 Poster: A snowHead
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Anytime there is a torque on the ankle (ie: on skis) - that torque will always try to flatten the ski - away from the critical edge angle that is making the ski grip. |
That of course is the limiting factor. If there is too much lateral "play" in your boots, you would need incredibly strong ankles to resist that torque. No one has ankles that strong. That is why plastic ski boots were invented in the first place. And that's why downhill course records plummeted in the late 60s / early 70s when ski boots became markedly stiffer.
There are as many ski teaching philosphies as there are ski teachers. I personally prefer to work "from the core outwards"; so get the hips and trunk right and then work towards "fine-tuning" from the knees and ankles. I believe that a racing turn is primarily initiated by moving the feet "under" the core out to the side, and the ankles play little role in turn initiation.
It is clear that many others like to work "from the foot upwards". That is fine too 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Spyderman, yes, the higher force on a smaller area exerts a larger pressure, so length of blade is a factor, not necessarily *the* factor. |
I'm afraid you lost me there, V8.
The difference between the length of ski and skate is a factor of at least 4 while the difference in width between a GS ski and a fat powder ski is a factor of less than 2. How can the length NOT be *the* dominant factor?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Because it isn't.
Get an ice skater, and a skier with extremely short snowblades (in fact so short that they are the same length as an ice blade) on a skating rink, and get them both to speed skate around the rink.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm afraid there's something seriously wrong with your theory then.
Because if the width is *the* factor, it would only account for less thn 50% reduction of force from a skate blade DIRECTLY under the ankle and a ski edge that's 65mm wide.
While I have no doubt about narrower ski hold edge better than wider one and geometry has a lot to do with it. The theory, if correcct, would predict a snow blade of 65mm wide to hold the edge at least half as well as a skate of the same length (assuming they're sharpen to the same degree).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well good luck with that then. I'll leave you to time the two athletes around the rink. My guess is that the skater will outperform the skier way more than your 50% margin.
As I've pointed out before, it isn't my theory. It's an established one I subscribe to.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 8-06-07 16:25; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So obviously something else pretty significant is also at play in the picture that the theory had not bother to account for then.
I don't ice skate. So I don't even know what else is different, let alone if those differences matter.
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I have often wondered what would happen if an expert ice skater attempted to skate down a smooth, well-watered, World Cup slalom course on ice skates. I have never heard of it being attempted.
(But I do remember seeing someone somewhere descending a luge track on ice skates - as a stunt for a movie, perhaps...?)
As someone who was a part of ski-racing in the late 80s, when Derbyflex and "lifters" transformed the sport (before it was restricted by FIS), I can say that the leverage from being lifted over the ski has an enormous effect.
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| abc wrote: |
The difference between the length of ski and skate is a factor of at least 4 while the difference in width between a GS ski and a fat powder ski is a factor of less than 2. How can the length NOT be *the* dominant factor? |
the skate blade is rigid.
V8, you and abc are on about two separate but required factors, a) the skier applying the requisite pressure b) the ski responding properly to the requisite pressure.
One needs both a strong span and strong abutments for a proper bridge, pointless to speak of A dominant factor because that is improper conflation of two separate problems.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I read the bits about the skater vs skier edging where the assumption is that the skater has their ankle relatively ridgidly held in the boot. I have an actual observation if its of any use to the discussion - apologies for interuption if its of no use.
I can skate passably, but years ago saw a second hand pair of leather boots the right size so bought them. These boots were, quite frankly, 'knackered' any support around the ankle was non-existant and the boots were floppy across the ankle line. I've skated in them ever since buying them without any problem and now find stiff hire boots far more difficult to skate in. I wonder if the way I skate in them is different to the people that skate in stiff boots?
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Megamum,
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assumption is that the skater has their ankle relatively ridgidly held in the boot
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I hope you didn't make that assumption up, as I can't find any reference to me making it! 
But your actual experience demonstrates that you can edge a skate without stiff boots, precisely because the blade is directly below the centre of the ankle.
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