 Poster: A snowHead
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| Jimmythefoot wrote: |
| CEM - Sounds intersting. I will try it in Bormio. Yeh Dalbello is a good brand, shame. I wonder how many stockists there will be next winter? It offers a lot as a brand. |
Ahhh my fellow comrade in arms, they are indeed moving through the skiboot manufacturers ranks rapidly, and from working at the factory a few times four or five years ago I can understand why. The little Italian family have taken on board some Pretty prestigious skiers Racers/Freeriders etc to take the brand further with very good product.
Whilst we're on how do you feel about guys like you and me learning ourselves to death for over 20 odd years in this bootfitting thing only to find that that some money grabbing little toad sends himself on a TWO week course and then starts advertising himself as a SPECIALIST bootfitter, where do these people come from ????.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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keithski, where cna you do a two week boot fitting course i might sign up 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm amazed at how much there is to know about boots, and especially fitting.
Do these boot fitters charge for their time, or are they always associated with a boot shop? It may be that a fitter is very good and associated with a shop that does not carry the brand you prefer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Pixie4, welcome to snowheads. If you read through, you'll see that once you make the effort to see a bootfitter (who's usually attached to a shop), the idea of "brands you prefer" isn't relevant: the bootfitter will tell you which brands are suitable for your feet. If they don't stock boots suitable for you, a good bootfitter will not sell you boots.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bootfitters seem to have gained a mystic quality, a bit like Jedi Knights, who can see into the "souls" of your feet and cure all your ailments by using the force and their trusty heat sabre 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just thought I would post a “boot” success story after my disappointing experience last year, with my “professionally” fitted boots, and to prove that you can find the boots that fit your feet type using your own instincts. I won’t go into details about my foot/leg shape, but after weeks of research I came across Full Tilt boots that sounded on paper, (well...the net) as though they would suit my feet, stance and level of skiing, and as luck would have it, I came across the model I was looking for in my size on ebay, very reasonably priced, so bought them with the attitude if they didn’t fit, at least I hadn’t spent a fortune.
The boots duly arrived and true to their description, though 2nd hand, they were in good condition. Wearing them around the house for 3 days didn’t throw up any problems, and 1st impressions were good, really snug fit, but we all know that wearing boots at home doesn’t in any way replicate skiing in them, and neither did an hour on an indoor slope with my last pair. So I was prepared to take them with me on holiday, and hire some if they proved to be useless. Well what a wonderful experience I had, for the first time in my skiing life my boots fitted me, apart from 2 small pressure areas over my protruding inner ankle bones, they were almost perfection. I took them into a Ski shop in Soll at the end of my first day, where a very knowledgeable technician blew the shell out slightly in the pressure areas overnight; wore them the following 5 days and I could not find a single thing wrong with them. I've never had such a pain-free experience in 14 years of using ski boots; my feet didn’t move, no heel lift, no pressure on my calf muscle at the back, no forced stance, no shin bang, no arch pain, and best of all, my toe nails are still pink and healthy looking – a really successful DIY experience for very little outlay!
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Hi everyone,
i'm simon. I run ski exchange in Cambridge. I've been told to join up. Not really done this before.
So has anyone tried the new tecnica airshell boots yet? I would be interested in feedback as I was actually fairly impressed by the system. It is very simple and well made. However I have only tried in the shop not skiing.
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ski simon, are they the reebok pumps of the ski boot world?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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flangesax, think more nordica polaris or was it tridant.... one of the the 2 anyway
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I remember Nordica Syntech F9 Air from 1990's. Is that you Colin? Did you have a good ski?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ski simon, still here... get home saturday night
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you want a boot that fits get a custom foam job.
You dont have to buckle them up tight.
They hold your foot with the gentlest of pressure.
If a "boot fitter" tries to squeeze your foot into anything else you are entitled to kick out in pain.
Make sure you kick him where it hurts him most.
They may be expensive compared to boots that don't fit. But that expense is tiny when compared to the amount of money you will waste on accommodation. Do you go to a ski resort to ski or to sleep in an expensive bed?
But be warned, you wont be able to blame your boots anymore. You move your knees and that movement gets transmitted to your skis precisely.
Your foot won't move in the boot so what you command is what you get.
Unfortunately you may have to find new friends, because the boots will make you a better skier.
A poor workman blames his tools. A good workman does not blame his tools because he refuses to work with anything other than the best tools.
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| Quote: |
Do you go to a ski resort to ski or to sleep in an expensive bed?
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there are a few SH threads which suggest that an expensive bed is, indeed, a high priority for some on a ski holiday!
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You know it makes sense.
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A cheap bed at night allows more days on the snow and you can still afford a pair of Strolz boots and a week in Lech to get foamed up.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 20-03-10 17:20; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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abominable, not necessarily so. IME a well fitted boot is superior to foamed ones. The foam ones were not nearly as comfortable. (Foamed: Tecnica Icons with Conformable racing foam liners vs Fitted Nordica Dobermann Aggressor WC 150)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| abominable, not necessarily so. IME a well fitted boot is superior to foamed ones. The foam ones were not nearly as comfortable. (Foamed: Tecnica Icons with Conformable racing foam liners vs Fitted Nordica Dobermann Aggressor WC 150) |
I got over 100 weeks of skiing out of two sets of Strolz boots between the late 80's and the early 00's.
I am limited by arthritis and age now.
Seems I skied over a million moguls so God claims my body is now out of warranty.
Circumstances meant both sets of Strolz boots were fitted by Gebi's here in Oz rather than in Lech.
Only problems I ever had with the boots were getting them on and off (they are only designed to worn) and early on walking in them.
I soon learned never to walk in them with the top buckles undone unless the power strap remained done up.
You can't ski 50 consecutive days if your boots are not perfect.
The last thing you would want on a 8 week European skiing holiday, having come over from Oz, is to have boot problems.
I can't speak for the Technica and Nordica imitations.
But I do find it amusing the amount of trouble people have with boots.
CEM and SZK may be great boot fitters but it seems 99% of skiers get boots from boot sellers masquerading as fitters.
I had 3 sets of boots prior and only one set was tolerable.
My Strolz boots solved that problem for me.
My experience is it is impossible to identify a good fitter, so eliminate them, go to Lech or a person who has been licenced to fit Strolz boots.
It is a foolproof solution.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 21-03-10 5:57; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| abominable, not necessarily so. IME a well fitted boot is superior to foamed ones. The foam ones were not nearly as comfortable. (Foamed: Tecnica Icons with Conformable racing foam liners vs Fitted Nordica Dobermann Aggressor WC 150) |
My boots are foamed and fitted well  When has an aftermarket liner ever been a better solution? Arguing for Strolz is equally weird, I can't imagine any fitter bangs you in a random shell that fits your foot and then magically fixes it by foaming...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DaveC wrote: |
| My boots are foamed and fitted well When has an aftermarket liner ever been a better solution? Arguing for Strolz is equally weird, I can't imagine any fitter bangs you in a random shell that fits your foot and then magically fixes it by foaming... |
There is nothing random in about the shell at Strolz in Lech.
And the liner is definitely not an aftermarket.
They are designed for the Strolz shell.
You can read about their boot fitting process at http://www.strolz.at/skischuh/handmade.php
The foaming means that the lining distrubutes the contact around all your foot evenly.
That means no part is squeezed whilst another is not in contact.
It then follows that the boot does not need to be as tight and that allows greater comfort and better circulation.
My experience is that quality assurance is about getting it right the first time.
If you ever have to return to a fitter, it is because the process is only one of "until it fits good enough that you don't return".
That generally means there are no pressure points.
It rarely means that you have eliminated the points of poor contact via the liner between foot and shell.
If a fitter needs a second go they are only getting it a little better, but never perfect.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| CEM wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| CEM, Dude, I reckon more than 1% of people on here still ski in their old rear entry boots. |
never  |
That is not skiing. My Salomon SX90 rear entries were put in the garbage bin after only 2 years way back in the 80s. Then I skied until my body warranty ran out. Overlaps rule!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DaveC, I have had a better experience with my (current) fitted boots than I did with my prior Sidas foamed replacement liners. The foamed boots were possibly not well foamed, but were far less comfortable and far less precise.
abominable, I'm not sure you and I are aligned on what the boot fitting process is and why you'd go through it?
| Quote: |
| "You can't ski 50 consecutive days if your boots are not perfect." |
Sorry but that's nonsense. I've never had perfect (ie never ever incomfortable boots) and in the last 6 years I've averaged 55 days/season and did 3 seasons 20 years ago where I skied 6 days out of 7 from mid December till mid April. I doubt many instructors or pisteurs boots are perfect. (I know not all are).
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abominable, biggest problem is that foam is all too often used to correct the wrong shell size or shape...in thses cases it does not work as it was intended, secondly it is not the solution for some people, there are several foot types which do not accept foam well, if the foot is crushed by the entry pressure of the foam it will never be comfortable
if a 1970's boot fits and works for you then great, but please do not assume it will work for everyone
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As I indicated earlier, I was forced to get both my sets of Strolz boots in Oz. (Late 80s, then mid 90s). The second as a result of being helicoptered off the mountain above Stuben the day before my appointment in Lech.
The seller in Oz certainly did not go through the same detail claimed by Strolz in Lech. But I would expect that the process described on pages 38 through to 45 of http://www.strolz.at/strolzskiboots-en/ would eliminate your concerns with regard to wrong shell size.
The pressure of the foaming process certainly squeezes the foot but not so much to distort the foot. The microadjustable buckles enable the boots to be tightened to any desired pressure for skiing. Not that the foot buckles even need to be done up so good is the fit but doing them up does keep the water out. Shin buckles of course need to be done up.
As for working for everyone, the Strolz boots certainly won't work for people who can't access them.
Those who buy them from an authorized agent who takes shortcuts or does not maintain an exhaustive stock may get a bad set.
If my body ever allows me a 17th ski holiday in Europe, my starting point will be the Arlberg. My knees will never ski St Anton moguls ever again, but I would still want to buy my 3rd set of Strolz boots in Lech.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
DaveC, I have had a better experience with my (current) fitted boots than I did with my prior Sidas foamed replacement liners. The foamed boots were possibly not well foamed, but were far less comfortable and far less precise.
abominable, I'm not sure you and I are aligned on what the boot fitting process is and why you'd go through it?
| Quote: |
| "You can't ski 50 consecutive days if your boots are not perfect." |
Sorry but that's nonsense. I've never had perfect (ie never ever incomfortable boots) and in the last 6 years I've averaged 55 days/season and did 3 seasons 20 years ago where I skied 6 days out of 7 from mid December till mid April. I doubt many instructors or pisteurs boots are perfect. (I know not all are). |
They all have my sympathy for their unnecessary pain.
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Hmm, those green things may be what I need. I currently have a 5 year old pair of Head FR 9.5 which I like, but recently I find that my heel is moving way too much, a problem I diagnoesed as either foot shrinkage or liner compression. Anyone have any idea if adding these footbeds might help? I looked at new liners but at £120 as opposed to buying new Edge 9 or 10's for £20 more I am reluctant to do that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can't remember if it was this thread they came up on, but I was recently getting a little bit of heel lift from my boots, and tried a pair of Innerboot straps from Sidas/Conformable - they were £17.50 so I reckoned worth a go.
My feet are perfect in the boots, the width is bang on, but the ankle and lower calf was slightly loose. These straps/liners made a big difference, tightening up the fit around the ankle and leg, but without tightening up the foot (the design of my boots means I can make them tighter on the ankle/leg, but this causes the foot to be slightly tighter which was causing a little cramp if I tightened up the top two clips hard)
Worth a try for people who want to get rid of a little bit of heel lift without having to resort to modifying boots or spending a lot of money. On the downside, I seem to have got the last pair that Ellis Brigham had, and not sure if there's another supplier out there. If there is please let me know as the gf might want a pair for her boots doing similar thing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abominable, do you really think Strolz boots are better than a fitter picking a correct shell, footbed, flex and suitable liner? I'd hate to put an intermediate ish level skiier into a foamed boot. To me, it sounds like you've found a mass marketed version of solid bootfitting.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| abominable, do you really think Strolz boots are better than a fitter picking a correct shell, footbed, flex and suitable liner? I'd hate to put an intermediate ish level skiier into a foamed boot. To me, it sounds like you've found a mass marketed version of solid bootfitting. |
I don't know at what level a skier should be before their first Strolz boots.
They are about the most expensive boots you will ever find.
So you certainly need to become addicted to the white powdery substance first.
But I became addicted during a 6 day introduction to skiing course in Oz way back in 1976.
Before the next time I bought my own boots and skis.
I probably had 50 weeks skiing before the frustration with a pair of rear entry Salomon SX90s forced me to get a set of Strolz.
I have always been a miser on accommodation but a millionaire on equipment.
I go to a ski resort to ski, not to sleep in an expensive bed.
The precise fit means that whatever the skier does with their knees and weight is going to be transferred to their skis.
That makes for very precise skiing.
Intermediates may prefer to have a more sloppy boot that ignores (forgives) small movements and only reacts to large movements.
I would suggest that if a skier is comfortable skiing St Anton (remember the St stands for steep) then they are ready to take the bus around to the shop in Lech.
http://www.strolz.at/strolzskiboots-en/
describes how Strolz in Lech go about creating lasts from your own feet to select and blow the shell.
Lech would always have a complete range of boot shells but what would an agent without a full range do?
Tell you to go away or put you in a larger shell and then use more foam maybe.
The footbed is customised, they have a choice of flex, and the foaming completely fills any space between the foot and shell except where they make pockets to avoid pressure points.
I occassionally come across other skiers with Strolz boots.
The three things we always agree on are that they are a dream to ski in, difficult to get on and off and the next set of boots will only be Strolz.
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You know it makes sense.
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So do you get paid by them or just boot discount for the marketing?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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abominable, now, let me see if I've got this right...you're keen on Strolz boots?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, so much so that the blinkers are on to anything else
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I will write this once again, and I'm sure few will jump on me. It's pretty funny that only nation discussing and considering boot fitting as only way to go are Brits (oh yeah I forgot you guys invented skiing  ), and to some part Americans. Noone really cares much about boot fitting in Austria, Italy, France, Slovenia...
And once again I will write this... I agree boot fitting is (almost always) necessary with real racing boots (not store "racing" boots) where liner is on some places less then 3mm thick, and your foot is pressing almost literally against plastic, so yes if you want comfortable boot with good fit, fitting is only way to go. But with "normal" boots,liner is thick enough there's no need for any fitting. I think 90% of people here never even saw real race boot, and another 9% probably never had it on, so I don't think most of you guys are talking about real race boots.
I probably spend way more time in my boots, then huge majority of people here, who obviously have huge problems with boot fitting, and I never had my non racing boots fitted. And yes, I feel perfectly fine in them. Just like every single person I know and is located around here
So my suggestion is to stop bothering and just get out and ski. It's much more fun to actually ski, then to think about all problems you might have. Unless you need to do something skiing related for 52 weeks a year, when you are 3000km away from ski courses
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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primoz,
| Quote: |
I don't think most of you guys are talking about real race boots
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You're almost certainly right there: what the majority of us is probably talking about is simply skiing - at whatever standard, be it as a beginner or a racer - with feet that don't hurt and which can control our skis. Since I don't find it particularly easy to find even a pair of shoes which fit my feet well, it seems reasonable to make at least an equivalent effort to find a pair of boots which will do so. I now have a pair of boots which feel comfortable and when my brain tells my feet to do something, they do: this is pretty much a first for me, in many years of skiing, so I reckon it's worth it, even though I obviously don't ski at your exalted level.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| primoz wrote: |
| But with "normal" boots,liner is thick enough there's no need for any fitting. |
Sounds like they're too big then.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Sounds like they're too big then. |
Maybe, but what the heck should I know about skiing anyway
My "normal" boots are my working boots, but even so, this means I need to ski down the Streif on day of race, so maybe they should still fit kinda normally, don't you think so? When I go just skiing, I use racing boots which are fitted. But as I said, when you have only few mm of liner between your foot and plastic, this is normal. On the other side, normal consumer liners are much much thicker, so I really don't see any reason for this... even if boots are not too big.
This is of course for someone who has about average feet. I agree there's small percentage of people with "weird" feet, and for those things are different. But on average, there's really no need for complicating things. And if you ask pretty much any coach, serviceman (including boot tech in WC), instructor etc. for example in Austria, you will get pretty much same answer. But if someone feels paying for custom footbeds, custom liners and fitting (especially I like idea of setting alignment and canting in store without actually seeing you and your skiing) is good thing when it comes to 200eur worth boots, it's perfectly fine for me. It's just that personally I would rather invest that money in getting better boot. But that's just me, and as I wrote on beginning already, what should I know about all this anyway
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primoz, i think you have missed the point... for thevast majority of people it is not about complicating things, simply selecting the correct size, the closest shape then supporting the foot correctly to stop any unwanted motions, the biggest problem seems to be thelack of places which can offer these simple things
i fairly big percentage of my work is on 95mm last plug boots and sure we need to do a lot more to make these things fit then the average recreational boot but why isn't the average person entitled to the best fit available for them
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Feet go in boots, whatever level the skier, anybody that has feet WILL benefit in some way from fitted boots, having fitted boots for a couple of weeks now, listened to my client's feedback I can say this without doubt, those that don't have fitted boots and are happy, good for you. I'm here incase you do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, when's post #1 gonna be back up?
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Cem if picking right size and shape goes under fitting, then I agree with you. But personally I don't consider this as real boot fitting, that's why I wrote this. I consider this as pure sales support. But yes, I agree, most of big (and not so big) sport stores like Intersport for example, are lacking even this basic support.
I also already wrote, that I agree real fitting is normally needed for race boots, but from this what I see on slopes, 90% (I'm sure I could say 99%) of people don't ski in race boots. And also as I wrote, it's not my thing to tell people what they need or don't need. So if someone thinks he or she needs real fitting for low end consumer boots, it's perfectly fine with me.
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FAQ
