 Poster: A snowHead
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click click....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jirac18 wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, I'll still maintain then that if a collision was a possibility you should have been able to simply slow down and avoid it. |
Oh to be a perfect skier eh. We’re humans with fallibility and make errors of judgement do we not? Collisions are always a possibility with so many variables at play.
Just out of interest why is that you find pole clicking so startling and upsetting? |
Yes of course errors of judgement are made, collisions are a possibility...but if we are skiing in control and appropriately for the conditions then pole clicking is redundant.
I've explained in an earlier post why I don't like pole clicking, ...I don't find it upsetting
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, I have read your posts, I understand your position. I'm not 'hung up', I just think the action, seldom or often used, is wrong. You have constantly defended your use of pole clicking, others think it's wrong on those occasions. You disagree so probably best to leave it there |
That's probably for the best.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| motyl wrote: |
Has everyone put Pyramus on ignore?  |
What? Instead of Gored?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@195062, it just seemed that everyone had gone all Nac Mac Feegle and were arguing amongst themselves about pole clicking while the OP was being ignored, that's all 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@holidayloverxx, You said you detest it, pretty strong emotion. I was merely enquiring as to why, ie. had it once caused you to have an accident? Does it trigger you for a particular reason? Otherwise to me it just seems a bit OTT to be that bothered by it. Only speaking for myself it just doesn’t make a difference either way so it’s just a noise.
I’m not suggesting you’re wrong to detest it or otherwise just curious as to why.
However the noise of a snowboarder scraping in super fast and loud behind me definitely triggers my emotions and causes me considerable temporary stress. Or when I see or feel a skier or boarder coming in ‘too hot’ near me as I once got wiped out by a woman at high speed causing me significant serious injury.
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| motyl wrote: |
| @195062, it just seemed that everyone had gone all Nac Mac Feegle and were arguing amongst themselves about pole clicking while the OP was being ignored, that's all |
Personally, I think the thread had run its course long ago. 90% think Pyramus is completely wrong; 9% think Pyramus is essentially completely wrong with occasional mitigating factors; and 1% is Pyramus.
As for pole-clicking: I confess I used to do it occasionally, but I've seen the light and haven't for quite a few years.
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The 'pole clicking' thing has been taken out of all proportion and is being engineered as an ineffective solution championed by the selfish and inconsiderate.
This is absolute tosh I'm afraid - as I stated previously, its perhaps a cultural (East/West) or generational thing or maybe simply what someone has experienced themselves or indeed been taught . . .I know myself - I class myself as a polite and considerate skier (even in Laissez fair land) and have NEVER knowingly or unwittingly hurt anyone on the slopes - and neither would I want to as much as I wouldn't want to be in an accident myself. Based on my 'safety' record (that has included being a sporadic clicker that has clicked in what he believes have been appropriate situations for nearly 40yrs) I will continue to do so as and when I deem it appropriate, irrespective of anyone elses views . . ! Vive la difference!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK I give in: I'm quite content to hear the approach of clicking coming in from the distance behind me and passing me by, much like a car doing a sensible speed on a road. But a sudden loud clicking in the immediate vicinity is as likely to startle me as a snowboarder checking their edge. In my early days I would have clicked my poles to pass someone - because others did it and it seemed a good idea - but I can't recall the last time I did this, I now just hold back and try to make a good decision. That's the process of learning - picking things up and discarding those that aren't worth hanging on to. YMMV
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@jirac18, I explained...I can't tell where the noise is coming from (I wear hearing aids), I don't know where the person is or what they are going to do. That is startling, unsettling and unnecessary. No its never caused an accident involving me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My fist world problem is I don’t like the dull tone of the click from carbon poles
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @jirac18, I explained...I can't tell where the noise is coming from (I wear hearing aids), I don't know where the person is or what they are going to do. That is startling, unsettling and unnecessary. No its never caused an accident involving me. |
Best thing to do is hold your line if someone clicks you on a cat track (notwithstanding their responsibility). Surely the youth that zoom past unannounced sat on back of their skis are more disconcerting?
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| My fist world problem is I don’t like the dull tone of the click from carbon poles |
Fist World is a whole other website. We don’t need to go there!
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You know it makes sense.
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Fascinating read, this thread, just to see how far people will go to justify a particular viewpoint. I teach my kids to ski "defensively" and be as aware as they can, but it is sensible self preservation required because of the ever increasing number of skiers who do not ski in a considerate manner. I have always been taught the uphill skier is responsible for the safety of the downhill skier. It is not a difficult concept.
Linked, the general conduct on the pistes in France in the last 5 years or so has got so bad I genuinely think that there needs to be greater policing with passes removed on the spot. (They can always be appealed) There are unfortunate accidents, but some of the skiing by intermediates at high speed when barely in control through ski lessons etc is astonishing. The lack of consideration to beginners who are starting their ski journey is quite shameful.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @jirac18, I explained...I can't tell where the noise is coming from (I wear hearing aids), I don't know where the person is or what they are going to do. That is startling, unsettling and unnecessary. No its never caused an accident involving me. |
Best thing to do is hold your line if someone clicks you on a cat track (notwithstanding their responsibility). Surely the youth that zoom past unannounced sat on back of their skis are more disconcerting? |
That's what I do, but I do that anyway yes the youth is scary
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Ozboy, I tend to look at those youths more in envy, a) that they can get down and do that in the first place and b) that they’ve the flexibility to get back up without ending up in a sprawling mess. Rising from an armchair can be problematic these days with my arthritic knee. Thank the Lord for Naproxen
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| 195062 wrote: |
| Personally, I think the thread had run its course long ago. 90% think Pyramus is completely wrong; 9% think Pyramus is essentially completely wrong with occasional mitigating factors; and 1% is Pyramus. |
Dude, it's been enlightening. I'm drawing quite a few interesting conclusions here:
1. The FIS rules are seen by many on this forum as "the bible", and any accusations of them not being fit for purpose is essentially blasphemy.
2. Collision rates are high, yet the majority are happy to live with the status quo.
3. FIS Rule 5 in particular is poorly written and needs re-writing (why is "moving upwards" much different to "moving perpendicular" across the piste?).
4. "Pole clicking" is a thing (tbh I had never heard or seen this before this thread!).
5. People are brainwashed from as early as ski school into thinking they are invincible and have no need to worry about what's coming at them from above.
6. Ski instructors make no attempt to teach collision risk mitigation techniques which almost certainly contributes to collision rates on the piste.
So I have no issues about being "right or wrong" with the original post. Contributions have been really insightful.
Plenty of opportunity here to improve skiing safety.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Richie456 wrote: |
| I teach my kids to ski "defensively" and be as aware as they can. |
Good work mate. You should get down to ESF and teach those guys a thing or two and get it added to their standard teaching practices.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snowboarders fault for sure
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @Ozboy, the click startles me, quite likely startles others. How are we meant to know which side you are passing on? If you say I'm passing on the side you can hear the clicks on then thats no help at all, if I need to turn suddenly then having someone clicking behind you is avtually scary. Have you ever asked anyone? I won't be startled by someone passing safely. Just ski past if is safe. There is absolutely no reason to click poles . |
This is a good point which i will consider next time. I just assumed it was the norm as it’s common and always done it - thought I was being considerate. The idea is the person being overtaken on a cattrack holds their line while I overtake safely by the edge |
Nicely done
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Who knew that tapping ones poles was such an emotive subject 
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@SnoodyMcFlude, the people who are tapped at 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@holidayloverxx although I'm fairly certain that everyone has heard it at one time or another, and the vast majority probably aren't that fussed.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, that's why I started the other thread. I wouldn't like to say I was fairly certain on any of it it or what the vast majority think
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Richie456 wrote: |
| the general conduct on the pistes in France in the last 5 years or so has got so bad I genuinely think that there needs to be greater policing with passes removed on the spot. (They can always be appealed) There are unfortunate accidents, but some of the skiing by intermediates at high speed when barely in control through ski lessons etc is astonishing. The lack of consideration to beginners who are starting their ski journey is quite shameful. |
Not saying it doesn't occur anywhere else, however IME its been apparent in la France for a LOT longer than that (and I got slated for having a vaguely negative opinion about France on another thread for these reasons specifically); especially at the weekends when the locals from the cities turn up to 'have a go'. I have first hand experience of this in full effect; the worst example (amongst others) was a decade ago with my middle son age 7 having his leg smashed and broken on day two by such an uphill 'intermediate' on a beginners slope (and yes I've taught him to click / fence / wallop since ).
Policing in France / Europe generally is minimal to non-existent; most people in France including lifties simply don't care (even if slow ski zones are clearly marked on piste maps) aren't even probably aware of what any FIS rules actually are let alone enforcing or encouraging them . . . on the flipside I've personally witnessed several 'intermediate racers' in slow ski zones getting their passes lifted in the States over 30yrs ago - this certainly feels like appropriate punishment that europe could learn from.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Richie456 wrote: |
| the general conduct on the pistes in France in the last 5 years or so has got so bad I genuinely think that there needs to be greater policing with passes removed on the spot. (They can always be appealed) There are unfortunate accidents, but some of the skiing by intermediates at high speed when barely in control through ski lessons etc is astonishing. The lack of consideration to beginners who are starting their ski journey is quite shameful. |
I can't say I've noticed - idiot skiers have always been around, particularly during the busiest weeks of the Paris holidays. but I really don't think it's got any worse.
| Belch wrote: |
| Policing in France / Europe generally is minimal to non-existent; most people in France including lifties simply don't care (even if slow ski zones are clearly marked on piste maps) aren't even probably aware of what any FIS rules actually are let alone enforcing or encouraging them . . . on the flipside I've personally witnessed several 'intermediate racers' in slow ski zones getting their passes lifted in the States over 30yrs ago - this certainly feels like appropriate punishment that europe could learn from. |
Piste patrol and lift operators do not have any remit to police skiers behaviours, and they certainly do not have the right to remove lift passes. In the most extreme circumstances if an accident has occured they would need the police to get involved, being pretty mudh powerless to do anything about it themselves.
I recall in Italy, Gressonay at least, that the piste patrol were all actually Police officers, complete with guns. Every evening they'd sweep the slopes and kick us out of the bar on the piste where we were trying to get a couple more beers in before skiing down the last stretch. But you don't argue with a man (or a woman, but I think they were all male) with a gun.
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Classic example of it isn't entirely one person or another's but the guy behind can see the guy in front and the guy in front has no idea who is behind him so yes, the guy in front nearly manages to stitch up the guy behind but the guy behind needs to be aware of the potential for that.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is that for real ? Ischgl ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Hotdogger, that is like some sort of vision of Hell. Do people pay to do that? Is there no way to download in a lift?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yeah I saw the same clip. Yes apparently it's Ischgl and I think it's real. Not surprising then authorities have been coming out with warnings about dangerous snow conditions (per this thread).
Don't know where to start with that clip....that needs a whole new set of FIS rules!! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Looks like the dreaded Ischgl home run. Many of the punters will be drunk!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Apparently the bar's at the bottom, so it seems as though there's a lot of inexperienced people with tired legs getting caught out by a sudden steep and bumpy ride.
I must've watched this a dozen times now and it's still making me chuckle. No matter where you look there's slow motion carnage occurring or just about to. I keep seeing something new - it's like a real life kaleidoscopic, magic eye picture.
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FAQ
