 Poster: A snowHead
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@drbeier As promised here is a post I did a few years ago explaining the itineraries (the runs marked yellow on the map, not groomed but avalanche controlled):
here is a rough guide from right to left (in the Swiss area only – the Italian side does not have any):
67/68 – run down next to the piste. Nice and wide. Not a lot of cliff edges. Usually plenty of people around and from most places you can be seen from the piste. The best place to start.
59/60 – similar to 67/68 but a bit steeper and not as many people around and can’t be seen from the piste.
58 – known by my daughter as “death route” because I took her on it when her skiing was not really up to it. It starts off dead easy then gets steep then falls into the trees. I love it. Don’t do it unless you can handle really sharp turns or you have a desire to get very intimate with a tree trunk. Nowhere near a piste.
49 and 43 – just ways to get to restaurants or back to town but do them if you are passing by.
30 – getting into the real stuff now. Try this before you take the lifts over to Rote Nase and Stockhorn. If you enjoyed 67 and 68 you’ll probably enjoy this. But unless you are confident on this don’t try …
31/32/33/34 – heaven on earth in my opinion. I could spend a whole day playing over these routes. You get an ancient lift over there that only serves itineraries and not groomed pistes. Unless you know them don’t try to do them on a bad light day – it would be easy to stray off route (or just go off the edge of a rock drop!) and no-one is going to find you. On a clear day there should be enough other people around to make you feel not too nervous. If you go to Zermatt and are a reasonably competent and confident skier (and fit) it would be a real pity not to head over here. But do check whether your own insurance covers you.
10 – easy peasy lemon squeezy. But surprisingly nice run still. Another good one to try if you just want to find out if you can cope with itineraries.
16/17/18 – Great runs to do and often have unskied snow for several days after a dump but they do not get a lot of people on them so those of a nervous disposition might not like them. Can be very steep in parts and there are rocks a plenty. If you were fine on the Stockhorn sector you should try these ones as well. But it is much better to do with at least one other person (and stay in sight of each other) than on your own.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JohnMo: fantastic info, exactly what I was looking for. I will study this and be prepared for a quiz. Many western resorts in the US are spread out and alot of time can be wasted making connections (looking at you, Park City/Canyons).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| drbeier wrote: |
| JohnMo: fantastic info, exactly what I was looking for. I will study this and be prepared for a quiz. Many western resorts in the US are spread out and alot of time can be wasted making connections (looking at you, Park City/Canyons). |
You’re welcome. I know what you mean about Park City. We went there a few years back (bad snow year  but still enjoyed the runs off the top). Some people do find Zermatt’s sectors hard to connect but I think if you study the piste map a bit it becomes easier to understand.
Two mistakes in my main post above: Plan Torrette is not the central Italian station. I mean to say Plan Torrette, which is just below Plan Maison, the central Italian station; second - when doing Klein Matterhorn tip Zermatt, bear left to bypass Trockener Steg, not right.
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| JohnMo wrote: |
Hi @drbeier. Some good advice above (amongst some strange stuff). I will try to give you my personal overview.
Zermatt is a very rocky resort. Much of the skiing is on recently deglaciated terrain. Up until the peak of the little ice age in the mid-19th century the glaciers extended almost all the way down to town. They are now nowhere near there. This has created the exciting skiing terrain we love but does bring challenges off the groomed pistes – particularly early in the season or in a poor snow year. You are a little early for the best off piste experience (Feb/March/April). For example the best itinerary run area (monitored off piste basically) of Stockhorn/Rote Nasa/Triftji does not open until last week of January usually (this year for some reason it is first week of February). That is because they need sufficient snow cover over the rocks.
From town there are three ways up to the mountains. They lead to the three (plus one) Swiss areas and the last one leads over to the Italian area. I’ll summarise each. I gave a summary of the itinerary runs (shown yellow on the piste map) for someone a few years back. I will copy and paste that in a separate posting below). I think you’ve already made reference to the piste map (the pdf link in this link):
https://www.zermatt.ch/en/Lifts-pistes/Panokarte-Ausflugsberge/Piste-map-Winter-panorama
In the North East of town is the Sunnegga furnicular. This is an underground train that links up with other lifts to the Rothorn area. A lot of beginners take this train because the Blauherd to Sunnegga blues are great for them. Don’t be deceived by that: from Rothorn there are excellent runs in all directions, including back down past Blauherd and on to black piste 8 (the Oberere National) which is the Swiss side’s signature run. If the snow is good there are plenty of opportunities for side piste and between piste fun. Going beyond the piste markers like this tends to create a lot of emotion on Snowheads: many people do it; but some consider it dangerous to do. You can make your own judgements when you are there.
Not just in this sector but in the resort generally I wouldn’t ski back to town (except at the end of the day). The home runs are not that great and are not worth the time it takes to get back up.
From Rothorn the runs down to Gant are also nice. From there you can take a chair back up to Blauherd and continue to enjoy the Rothorn area. Alternatively if you want to move on you can take the big cable car up to Hohtälli and come back down to Gant on Run 28 – one of the best runs in the resort and again plenty of scope for side piste fun. If you want to move on further take run 44 over to the Gornetgrat sector.
In the centre of town is the Gornergrat railway station from where you take the train up to Gornergrat. It is the slowest way up in the ski areas from town but one that you must do at least once as the views are spectacular. Try to sit on the right hand side in direction of travel as that gives you the best views.
The pistes just below Gornergrat (strictly Gifthittli, where the chair lift ends) are mainly used by beginners, although the reds are not bad. However, if the snow is good there is a surprising amount of side and between psite fun to be had here. For the better skier the run further down from Riffelberg to Furi is actually better. From there you can head back up to Riffelberg and continue in the Gornergrat sector or hop on the gondola to the upper side of Furi and connect with the Matterhorn Express going up to Schwarzsee and Trockener Steg.
In the South of town is the Matterhorn Express. These gondolas take you up to Schwarzsee (sometimes simply grouped with the Klein Matterhorn sector). Hop off here first and enjoy the reds and side pistes. Make sure you take the Hirli lift as the black, reds and side pistes from there are great and tend to be a bit quieter.
Back on the Matterhorn Express you continue on up to Trockener Steg. From here you can: take the chairlift to Furggsattel; ski down to Furgg and connect with the black 62 down to Furi; or hop on the snazzy new cable car up to Klein Matterhorn.
Klein Matterhorn is the highest list station in Europe. The views from there are spectacular. The pistes are nothing special but the experience of skiing from there is. Coming off the Klein Matterhorn pistes you can either bear right to Trockener Steg or bear left over Plateau Rosa to Testa Grigia and into Italy.
You must go into Italy on at least one occasion. You need either to have an International Pass (personally I recommend that to people coming out) or, if you just buy a Switzerland pass, you can buy a daily upgrade at any of the Swiss ticket offices.
At Testa Grigia there are three ways into Switzerland. One is straight down the Ventina (number 7 and Cervinia’s signature run). This is a great piste for an expert skier (and good fun for intermediates). Alternatively you can keep slightly right at Testa Grigia and ski down piste 6. You will feel like you are heading back into Switzerland but there is a fork where you take a left and cut through the Theodulpass and into the main Cervinia basin. When there don’t miss out skiing down to Plan Torrette (the central lift station) and take the lift up from there. For the expert skier the skiing there is excellent. The third way into Italy is to head down the Ventina (7) but bear left whenever you can. That takes you into Valtournenche. A lot of visitors to Zermatt never make it over to there. Personally I go there quite often and enjoy it – but I get to Zermatt regularly so have the time to do so. It wouldn’t be a disaster if you didn’t do it.
The two runs I insist that you and your kids do are the iconic “high to low runs”. And it is compulsory to do them non-stop.
For the Swiss one you come off Klein Matterhorn and head down the reds and bear right. That you will have you heading towards Trockener Steg but keep right and bypass it. You are now heading down to Furgg, keep right and swing round the far right lit station onto the black 62 to Furi. As you are approaching Furi don’t ski up towards it but ski under the road and join the red down to Zermatt. Almost seven and a half thousand feet of drop.
For the Italian one you come off Klein Matterhorn but as you come down the reds, bear left over Plateau Rosa to Test Grigia to drop onto the Ventina (7). Not quite as big a drop but just as exhilarating and a quite different experience consider it has the same starting point.
Generally if your kids are experts and want to enjoy off piste, if you can afford it you need a guide. The side piste stuff is good fun – and the itineraries are great. But you shouldn’t go “proper” off piste by yourself unless you are really good at reading a mountain and mountain maps or you take a guide. Even once you are off the glacier (with the risk that involves) the rocky nature means you can suddenly find yourself at a cliff face (or worse obviously). |
Such a fantastic and very informative post, thank you. I've just read it whilst referring to the PDF piste map of the whole ski area. Can't wait to be back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DCG wrote: |
| twoodwar wrote: |
@DCG, leave it, it’s not worth it  |
I agree. I just felt some of what he said needed challenging as it was potentially dangerous advice. |
Only the nonsense you posted.
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Hi Guys, brilliant thread, thanks for all the info.
I'm coming over to Valtournenche in Feb for a few days. Would love to have a play on some of the itinerary runs mentioned above and my query is how long should it take to get from Valtournenche to Gant area (on boards)?
Looks like it could be quite a big day out and obviously need to pick a calm weather day to prevent getting stuck if links close! Cheers.
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Anyone know if the planned snowfall for this sunday is going to reach village level/lower mountain?
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| Idb1213 wrote: |
| Anyone know if the planned snowfall for this sunday is going to reach village level/lower mountain? |
Bergfex showing a FL of 1,600 metres … so any precipitation should fall as snow down to at least Furi. Don’t forget that at this time of year the ground may still be warm lower down so whatever falls from the sky may not last long.
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This is my preferred choice for obsessive worrying. The only certainty I have is that Bergfex definitely do not know what will happen.
At least they provide an indication of both snowline (nb that is not the 0C isotherm, broadly its closer to the 4c isotherm) and snowfall at VT village (1650m ie 400m lower than Cervinia) or Plateau Rosa. Its also easy to move the map to Zermatt to compare (enviously or jealously depending on who's got the mythical snow!):
https://www.bergfex.com/breuil-cervinia/wetter/prognose/#day3
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| scottishandy wrote: |
Hi Guys, brilliant thread, thanks for all the info.
I'm coming over to Valtournenche in Feb for a few days. Would love to have a play on some of the itinerary runs mentioned above and my query is how long should it take to get from Valtournenche to Gant area (on boards)?
Looks like it could be quite a big day out and obviously need to pick a calm weather day to prevent getting stuck if links close! Cheers. |
That is a tough question. An hour maybe? Probably longer. It really does take a long time to get out of Valtournenche. Just to get over to the Cervinia side you need to go: gondola; slowest chair lift in the world (I am sometimes tempted to jump off and skin the rest of the way); good chair lift; then long drag lift along the ridge. However, that doesn’t even get you to the border: you need to ski down to Laghi Cime Bianche and get the big cable car from there up to Testa Grigia (the border). You can get the gondola down from Trockener Steg but I would ski it (or snowboard it in your case). However, I would stop at Furi rather than go into town. At Furi take the Riffelberg Express (not the Matterhorn Express that passes through the same building). That takes you to Riffelberg where you hop on the chairlift to Gifthittli from where you can ski down to Gant.
At the bottom of all the lifts they give you the latest time you should head back to Italy. Those times are generous but I would stick to them.
I wouldn’t worry about getting stuck. That is an unbelievably rare event. If anything they are over cautious in not opening up if there is a risk weather will turn. If it does turn, they will do everything humanly possible to get you back over. If the weather does turn unexpectedly they do put notices at the bottom of each lift asking guests from Italy to return.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
@JohnMo, would love to explore the area with some local knowledge. Did the Schwarztor a few years back but there is clearly so much more!
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I would not count myself as having local knowledge in that respect. I always go (proper) off piste with a guide. Even something like the Schwarztor, which is fairly straightforward, I know I would not get lost but I still wouldn’t do it without a guide.
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I do hope you're planning on visiting some of the finest on mountain restaurants in the world. You will need to book in advance.
Chez Vrony, Findlerhof and Zum See
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sat 13-11-21 2:09; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
That is a tough question. An hour maybe? Probably longer. It really does take a long time to get out of Valtournenche. Just to get over to the Cervinia side you need to go: gondola; slowest chair lift in the world (I am sometimes tempted to jump off and skin the rest of the way); good chair lift; then long drag lift along the ridge. However, that doesn’t even get you to the border: you need to ski down to Laghi Cime Bianche and get the big cable car from there up to Testa Grigia (the border). You can get the gondola down from Trockener Steg but I would ski it (or snowboard it in your case). However, I would stop at Furi rather than go into town. At Furi take the Riffelberg Express (not the Matterhorn Express that passes through the same building). That takes you to Riffelberg where you hop on the chairlift to Gifthittli from where you can ski down to Gant.
At the bottom of all the lifts they give you the latest time you should head back to Italy. Those times are generous but I would stick to them.
I wouldn’t worry about getting stuck. That is an unbelievably rare event. If anything they are over cautious in not opening up if there is a risk weather will turn. If it does turn, they will do everything humanly possible to get you back over. If the weather does turn unexpectedly they do put notices at the bottom of each lift asking guests from Italy to return.
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Thanks John, an hourish doesn't sound bad at all. We're first lift to last lift types so sounds like it's worth it for a day out. Just hope I can get my teenager some sort of Covid pass to eat in Switzerland!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One of cervinia pages upload a post as there is going to be 50cm fresh snow between sunday and monday at village level, but other forecasts show none at village level. Not so clear.. Also i saw forecasts show pretty snowy conditions as of monday (22nd), But now shows nothing for that date. Anyone has any insights?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Which village?! C is 2050m so usually colder than Vt at 1650
Looks like the freezing level may be around 1600 to 2000m - if the is true the it will be mostly rain at vt village but snow (ish) at Cervinia
But you will not know in advance as there are.a lot of variables at play locally…
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Wildsmith wrote: |
Which village?! C is 2050m so usually colder than Vt at 1650
Looks like the freezing level may be around 1600 to 2000m - if the is true the it will be mostly rain at vt village but snow (ish) at Cervinia
But you will not know in advance as there are.a lot of variables at play locally… |
I meant at cervinia level (Cretaz and resort). I was talking about today and tomorrow in that matter. (They posted 50cm at resort level)
and i asked about next week monday, does the forecasts say anything?(Graphs or anything) Because it was promising but changed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Snow has arrived further east (look up Passo Tonale for eg) and forecasts suggesting it is moving westwards (so fairly certain something will come), but is late vs forecast for the first flurries. Still suggest total of 50cm at 3500m (now close to 95% certainty of the fact of precipitation, but not how much or when) - not seen any prediction of 50cm at C village anywhere - but its fun to hope. I am still confident of C lift co being able to open Cretaz lifts and skiing by/on 20th - though that may be more dependent on other factors (staffing and economics for eg). If you must have certainty I suggest :
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Crumbs of comfort: beginner travelator at Plan Maison (2550m) now open - so learning from scratch now possible; plenty of sledging going on at Cretaz - so mucking about on snow in inappropriate clothing now possible...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Haha can't really understand what you're saying as im not native english, But its not even about cretaz anymore. Cervinia only opened 5 slopes so far, which is pretty dissappointing, leaving only about 8-10% skiable area.
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| Idb1213 wrote: |
| Haha can't really understand what you're saying as im not native english, But its not even about cretaz anymore. Cervinia only opened 5 slopes so far, which is pretty disappointing, leaving only about 8-10% skiable area. |
Most people can't understand me, its not you 
Whats open is ok for pre-season compared to the others. This is a good summary to compare other resorts' open runs: https://www.skiresort.info/snow-reports/europe/filter/open-ski-resorts/
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| Wildsmith wrote: |
| Idb1213 wrote: |
| Haha can't really understand what you're saying as im not native english, But its not even about cretaz anymore. Cervinia only opened 5 slopes so far, which is pretty disappointing, leaving only about 8-10% skiable area. |
Most people can't understand me, its not you
Whats open is ok for pre-season compared to the others. This is a good summary to compare other resorts' open runs: https://www.skiresort.info/snow-reports/europe/filter/open-ski-resorts/ |
How much of a difference would it make if we change from end of november (29.11-5.12), to (5.12-10.12)?
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Depends what you want and are worried about!? There will be no definitive answer..
1 more week later means possibility of another storm, that would mean chance of off-piste /side piste and more runs opening but
- maybe you can't ski/enjoy it so much (too much snow/avalanche risk /wind /cloud)
- lift co might not open any more lifts than what is achieved on 20th Nov anyway (there aim will be to be 100% ready for Christmas weeks /holiday season/opening of hotels/ when staff arrive).
- doesn't say anything about on piste conditions (esp for beginners/intermediates)
- doesn't say anything about crowds or lack thereof on pistes /resto's (nb Chalet Etoile is open now!)
- covid rules might change!
I think you should not worry... it is beautiful and stunning to be in the(se) mountains. It thats everyone's thing then they will enjoy it even if going today.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Wildsmith wrote: |
Depends what you want and are worried about!? There will be no definitive answer..
1 more week later means possibility of another storm, that would mean chance of off-piste /side piste and more runs opening but
- maybe you can't ski/enjoy it so much (too much snow/avalanche risk /wind /cloud)
- lift co might not open any more lifts than what is achieved on 20th Nov anyway (there aim will be to be 100% ready for Christmas weeks /holiday season/opening of hotels/ when staff arrive).
- doesn't say anything about on piste conditions (esp for beginners/intermediates)
- doesn't say anything about crowds or lack thereof on pistes /resto's (nb Chalet Etoile is open now!)
- cover rules might change!
I think you should not worry... it is beautiful and stunning to be in the(se) mountains. It thats everyone's thing then they will enjoy it even if going today. |
Thanks.. Am not worried so much about offpiste, rathar than shortage of runs and pistes. I couldnt imagine myself doing the same route all day, 5 days straight. (With possibly minor chnages to route)
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Ok well that is clear... making 1 weeks change pre-season will not help with that worry in any measurable sense (it will certainly give you 1 extra week of worry!!)
If that is your main worry (and it is important), frankly any time pre-season is not a good time to choose, but it is just a issue of skiing in general and why only a tiny % of resorts are open atm.
Seems like you are intending only to purchase the C/VT pass? Todays there is plenty of skiing but mostly in CH atm... but anyway I would if needed just do a lot more stopping and staring ( have a good look at the panoramic webcam at Plateau Rosa) and eating /coffee drinking... both doable right now just with a C/VT ski pass...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Looks like a nice storm coming from ESE later today and continuing for Monday at least. Overnight and early morning that should be snow right down into town. As the day develops it will be rain down there but it shouldn’t change conditions particularly- and it will still be snow in the mountains. Very nice for anyone arriving on Tuesday evening for three days (that would be me!).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I go to Cervinia a month today and Crystal haven’t cancelled it yet due to lack of numbers or whatever so it seems like it’s on.
I haven’t actually stayed on the Cervinia side before and I usually book things independently but it was easier this time with a TO because getting to Cervinia by public transport isn’t very easy and I’m not keen on hiring a car for one person to then not use it for the whole week. It’s better value to book the TO package on this occasion.
Not always the case for elsewhere though!
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| Wildsmith wrote: |
Ok well that is clear... making 1 weeks change pre-season will not help with that worry in any measurable sense (it will certainly give you 1 extra week of worry!!)
If that is your main worry (and it is important), frankly any time pre-season is not a good time to choose, but it is just a issue of skiing in general and why only a tiny % of resorts are open atm.
Seems like you are intending only to purchase the C/VT pass? Todays there is plenty of skiing but mostly in CH atm... but anyway I would if needed just do a lot more stopping and staring ( have a good look at the panoramic webcam at Plateau Rosa) and eating /coffee drinking... both doable right now just with a C/VT ski pass... |
Actually no i can buy the international pass, Would it make much of a difference? Zermatt side is looking better atm?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Idb1213 wrote: |
| Actually no i can buy the international pass, Would it make much of a difference? Zermatt side is looking better atm? |
Choose much closer to the time you go!
Yes it makes a difference (cost and run to ski, er obviously), but it will be different for each member of your party and it depends whats open/likely to be open and IMO how sunny/cloudy it will be and whether you are managing every penny! You need to have a good look at the website for the options that suit you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Wildsmith wrote: |
| Idb1213 wrote: |
| Actually no i can buy the international pass, Would it make much of a difference? Zermatt side is looking better atm? |
Choose much closer to the time you go!
Yes it makes a difference (cost and run to ski, er obviously), but it will be different for each member of your party and it depends whats open/likely to be open and IMO how sunny/cloudy it will be and whether you are managing every penny! You need to have a good look at the website for the options that suit you. |
Thank you i will. hopefully weather will be good for international. i just saw another storm coming on 22nd, anyone know how certain is it?
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Poster: A snowHead
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also, anyone knows a good way to get to cervinia from milan without having to rent a car?(and not use it for a week) i checked and seems like public transportation isn’t comfortable
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thank you, still cheaper to rent a car
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Idb1213, watch out for winter tyres. Difficult to hire with them fitted in Italy in my experience.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| twoodwar wrote: |
| @Idb1213, watch out for winter tyres. Difficult to hire with them fitted in Italy in my experience. |
i was thinking chains could do?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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In Cervinia town centre athe mo. 
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| twoodwar wrote: |
| In Cervinia town centre athe mo. |
Looks good!
Have you seen the forecast for 22nd onwards? Is it reliable?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@VolklAttivaS5, sorry but can’t help there. Snow level down to 1600 metres as it’s coming down in Madeleine village as well at that height
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@Idb1213, If you were still looking for winter tyres on a hire car, we've just booked a car to rent with winter tyres for £206 for the week 4th Dec to 11th Dec. Like you, we found the taxi to Cevinia was very expensive. We booked through discovercars.com
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FAQ
