Is the 2021/2022 in doubt ?

A snowHead

It's important to ignore the noise from the media and politicians on this and focus on the herd immunity target: which is at least 75% fully-vaccinated, plus 3 weeks. As of yesterday, we are at 50% fully-vaccinated (with 3-weeks-worth of those not yet at the final target). So, great progress, but not there yet by a long chalk. If everyone who has been vaccinated to date gets their second dose then that's close to the 75%, we then add 3 weeks - which is going to be way beyond June 21st. Probably around another month, at least. That puts us at around August for herd immunity in the UK. At which point I think it would be reasonable, all other things being equal, to lift all restrictions and demand that other countries allow UK citizens in with only proof of vaccination (with tests as an alternative only if they can't/won't be vaccinated). By the arrival of the 2021-22 season, as it's looking now, most of the Alpine countries will be in the same position. Thus allowing reciprocal arrangements along the same lines. I suspect that we won't see complete waiving of any proof of negative covid tests, or vaccinations, as a condition for entry until next summer.

A snowHead

You'll need a booster vax before next winter, probably covering new strains. I doubt the EU will be fully open for British visitors and maybe not even for EU nationals.

I mean who would have imagined French ski lifts being shut the whole season? The pressure to reopen isn't that great either but it will be an election year so politics will decide.

This summer is certainly more restricted than last year for us EU nationals. For example to visit Italy for a week we need PCRs and Vax certs. This creates a lot of uncertainty because if you fail the PCR that's your holiday gone. Junior can't get vaccinated at the moment so that may create some issues with restaurants if we go out.

We already cancelled once at the start of June due to the issues with moving around.

So yes, I'd expect things to be open but really don't have a huge amount of confidence.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@LaForet, surely 75% fully vaxxed OR infected. Both groups have the necessary antibodies.

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@haggishunter, I'll explain it simply because you seem to be a simpleton. I keep doing this again and again but just for you:

- The NHS has had limited capacity for years. It staggers along, making do as best it can. Every winter the cracks show but it keeps going. It was NEVER going to be able to cope with a pandemic of this kind when it can barely cope with 'flu season each year

- There is an obsession with trite phrases at the moment, "let it rip", "circuit-breaker" and all the others that are trotted out. The most annoying however is "overwhelmed" as in "the NHS will be overwhelmed". It was. The only way it managed to survive was by simply dumping loads of patients who were left to die at home, out of sight of phone cameras in ED and not in the C19 figures

- Other countries balanced the two much better: Sweden is the nearest thing we have to a control and their overall deaths or excess deaths (I forget which) were well below average for Europe even as their C19 deaths were average. That example shows that it was possible.

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@Timmycb5, my point was that the trend across UK governments for some time has been towards authoritarianism but OK, I don't particularly care.

I note you've avoided my links to waiting lists and Macmillan.

Another basic point of logic I've had to explain once already: if a nutter said 2+2 = 4 would you disagree with it just because of the man who said it? The point I made was that Sikora has been detailing the number of missed diagnoses for months on end. Regardless of the "Professor" stuff he was an oncologist for decades, not that he needs that qualification to be able to read some very simple numbers.

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I can confirm that Karol Sikora was a respected oncology consultant (I don't know whether he still practises) who was director of a research institute at Cambridge (I can't remember whether he had a professorial title) and was subsequently definitely a Professor at Hammersmith Hospital/Imperial College London. However latterly he did seem to develop a tendency to make maverick pronouncements when it came to both medical politics and medical education, and I wouldn't give a lot of weight to his ideas in those fields.

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After all it is free

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The EU Vaccine Passport will come into effect from July 1, travellers will be able to show that they have either been vaccinated, have had a negative test or recently had coronavirus all by using a QR code on their mobile phones.

The 27 member states, including the Netherlands, backed a European Commission proposal which clears the way for free travel for people who have been fully vaccinated for at least two weeks.

However, people from the age of 12 who have not been vaccinated fully will have to have a negative coronavirus test for travel between two countries, unless both have a green risk level.

Unclear how this will work for 3rd Status Countries like the UK ......

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Apres Ski

Some folks here ... this can be a big part of their Holidays

From what I understand for Austria Folks expectations should not expect any ....

It will be a long the guidelines of what was going to happen in the Season that never was (2020/2021)

Highly regulated... Seated only , No Loud Music ...

Nightlife will severely curtailed ....

Things may be getting back to normality in Austria for the summer season but this is COMPLETELY different to the Winter when Thousands of people gathering INDOORS ...

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@stanton, That sounds like my type of night life! Not quite as young as I was.

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You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Bergmeister, after he'd steered into the iceberg, making the hole larger. I didn't like Johnson when he stood but it was him and Brexit or the Abbottapotamus-shagging Commie and no Brexit. Given that the more leftie governments have been more hardcore about lockdowns etc (see Ardern in NZ) he's been better than some but not by much.

Regardless of all this C19 balls I have a nasty feeling we're in for a turbulent time. The Soviet Union just gave way overnight as no-one was bothered to support it. It just collapsed, like that. How many people in the West really, really believe in our supposedly fundamental principles? Is there even any agreement on what they are? Given how little the resistance to the government controls were and how poorly the checks and balances worked has the West not already started to collapse?

A snowHead

you voted for the specifically for the disunity and turbulent times, so why is it only now you have a feeling?

A snowHead

@andy, do you honestly think 2016 was some sort of deliberate act? Hundreds of millions across the West voting for Brexit, Trump and various other non-establishment causes was a mass act of purposeful destruction? It was a response to many things, not least of which were the EU, globalism and mass immigration. I was one of many, many others.

You are short-sighted if you think it was just the voting public make a decision you didn't like. If you want to blame me for 2008 and the Great Depression then crack on, but that was down to supposedly centrist governments allowing and depending on dodgy economics from Obama, Blair and Brown amongst others wasn't it? The mass illegal immigration from Africa and the Middle East wasn't due to Trump being voted in, was it?

This is about a massive shift in history and in our culture which I certainly don't understand. The idea that C19 is just a nasty event which will be very expensive but otherwise leave little change is a nonsense. I remember when The Week in early 2016 said something along the lines of "whichever way the vote goes little will change". The shift was in the culture on the 'Left' and mentally and relatively small (so far) economically. It's similar for C19: what we now accept the government doing in our lives will take years to undo, if ever.

If you complain in future that the Police shut down an event or protest that you like which would never have been done before: remember that you let them do it when you allowed Johnson and the others to lock you in your house.

Just for fun and because you all think I'm a conspiraloon already:
http://youtube.com/v/0p0PtmMow0s. The comic was better, Moore got it. He didn't believe the s hite we've been telling ourselves about our love of freedom and how we'd never have collaborated with the Nazis etc etc. Yes we would.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

An interesting view on Mr Johnson's Teflon-esque characteristics:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-evidence-bulletproof-legend-1027188?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=upday

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@boobleblooble, you do realise that it is widely accepted that both the Trump and Brexit votes were helped along with a bit of Russian interference don’t you?

I wonder why Putin would want the US and EU destabilised?! Hmm.

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@Timmycb5, ha ha ha no they weren't. Just no. This is like the nutters who think Trump won (2020 Republicans) and Bush cheated (2000 Dems). If you cannot accept that you lost a democratic election then the system will fall apart as it is in America.

If you're referring to a slack handful of bots and Twitter accounts then do you seriously think that swayed the votes of millions? Russia has an economy the size of Spain and is nowhere near as potent as people seem to think.

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@boobleblooble, it didn't sway the votes of millions, it swayed the votes of tens of thousands in carefully targeted areas, and that was enough. And we've been paying the price ever since.

And no, the coming season is not in doubt. Some details might be different. Real skiers can handle changing conditions.

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@Scooter in Seattle, it was a national referendum in the UK so regions were irrelevant. Out of interest wasn't Trump quite matey with Putin so surely he should've won in 2020 with the Russians helping him?

Taking your logic won't Xi have helped Biden get in after Trump was so bellicose about China?

I think Russia did try to help Trump just as there was widespread cheating in the 2020 election. I'm just not convinced there was enough to sway the vote each way.

After all it is free

They both thrive on creating disorder here, they don't care who's in charge. That's why their propaganda cuts both ways: to sew conflict. And obviously it is working like a charm. You have to give them credit, it is a brilliant strategy.

There was NOT widespread cheating, or even de minimus cheating, in the 2020 US presidential election. This is a proven fact. 0-for-60 in the courts, c'mon people. If you have some evidence, show it or shut up.

What fools see they believe. Others look for evidence.

@boobleblooble, haha. So you accept there was Russian meddling, but by dint of some logic which only exists in your brain, you have concluded it wasn’t enough to sway the votes (but without backing this up with and facts/proof) when both the Brexit ref and the 2016 Trump vote were very close.

Can I have some of your drugs please?

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@Scooter in Seattle, really? So all those screenshots of the electoral roll showing the dead and ancient voting weren't any good?

I think Trump and Putin very much care who's in charge, as you've said he launched multiple legal cases. Why would he want disruption anyway: who likes America more, Trump who had a rally at Mt. Rushmore or the Democrats like Harris who rejoiced in the BLM protests but conveniently glided over the billions-of-pounds-worth of damage?

@Timmycb5, you're the one proposing that the Russians interfered so it's down to you to prove it, not me. Why is my point that the cheating was minimal therefore less believable than yours that it was wide-spread and consequential? I don't think Brexit was very close, it was a margin of millions of votes. Also, if the Russians are so effective why didn't they get it overturned? Labour, the Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and even through incompetence the Conservatives took 4.5 years to make any substantial change. It won in the absolute teeth of resistance from virtually every establishment in this country.

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Can I get my money back, this thread is not as advertised?!!

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@philwig, +1

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

UK in the Western World is Plague Centraal

Johnson is Braindead Clueless and a Serious Danger to the Western Alliance

[img https://snipboard.io/K6bZyG.jpg[/img]

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@philwig, I'm not sure how understanding that many Americans preferred to vote for a man who actually appears to like their country as opposed to those who lecture them about 'white supremacy' whilst allowing mobs of blacks in inner cities to cause enormous damage. Not difficult to understand.

@Scooter in Seattle, remind me, what's happening just over the border from you in Portland? Are the Antifa mobs pro-Trump? Next time a crowd of MAGA set chunks of a city centre on fire send me the link would you.

You think I'm a nutter yet after fours years of investigations to try and prove the Russians swung the 2016 election nothing was found. All that effort from so many desperate to shaft him and nothing. Yet I'm the conspiracy theorist? Please.

@195062, I have a funny feeling that the part of my statement you think is bonkers is the part with which you agree. Extraordinary that, isn't it.

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@195062, no it's late and you're tedious. I meant disagree. It's interesting that you skip over the part of my post with which you agree despite the almost total lack of evidence yet say the other part you dislike is somehow mad.

I suppose I should be annoyed by you but I got a full season in this year by simply ignoring the lockdown rules. It was that easy. You all spend hours and hours turning over very thin research on the spread of particles wearing masks indoors or some other s hite but it's all pointless. Half of you can't read a paper and the other half who can still can't explain how we went from decades of research suggesting that they don't work to an almost Catholic belief in the infallibility of the things. It's pathetic. You worry for hours on end about how to interpret the new regulations because you seem to want to be told what to do. This forum from mid-2016 to December just gone was stuffed with Centrist dads whining about Johnson yet when he ruins your lives with panicked, poorly-though-through or -understood regulations you just beg for more.

Do you really think you're all in it together? That this is some sort of Noble Effort to Win the War on Covid? I honestly think some of you would've drunk your own p iss if SAGE had told you to do it.

The problem is that £370 billion we've wasted is going to have to be paid back. I'm going to be taxed to death for this with my savings being inflated away because of your desperate desire to be told what to do because you were too frightened to think.

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The Australian PM, Scott Morrison, is setting the scene for extending the ban on overseas travel until well into 2022, which happens to be AFTER the next election:

After all it is free

@195062, if you're so bothered what do you do for a living? You're a full-pay laptop w anker aren't you? You demand that others comply yet I doubt C19 has affected you much at all.

That's not taking into account your enormous self-regard: your demand that I give up basic freedoms such as seeing my family or travelling abroad to protect a tiny group of others who apparently cannot be protected in any other way. It's the peanut-allergy-on-an-aeroplane scenario but worse, forcing others to protect you regardless of the cost to others. Should the roads be emptied of drivers so that you won't crash? Or should you learn to drive more carefully or just stay at home?

My posts have consistently been about freedoms for all over petty little tyrants like you, the kind of men who grassed up their neighbours for having a BBQ last summer. So no, it's about everyone who can muster the courage to go the bloody corner shop.

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Is the 2021/2022 in doubt ?

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