 Poster: A snowHead
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No problem. We do try to stick to the issues here, and I believe that we have done so, without bias. You need to read this particularly lengthy thread in detail to realise that points have been made for and against, on the whole pretty calmly. The best way to avoid upsetting people is by avoiding comments such as the French do this, are the other, like to act so. You just can't dismiss a whole country and its people in such a stereotyped manner without expecting a reaction. And you will be very hard-pressed to find a Brit who has lived and worked in France for any length of time - and this means making some concessions to your adopted country, believe me - who will accept such generalisations. And I would argue (and have done plenty of times!) just as strongly with any French person who tried to dismiss the whole of GB and its people in a similar manner.
As for the S Butler issue, I do feel we are rehashing old arguments unnecessarily, when most of the questions you ask above have been answered... even if not to your satisfaction  .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PG wrote: |
| As for the S Butler issue, I do feel we are rehashing old arguments unnecessarily, when most of the questions you ask above have been answered... even if not to your satisfaction . |
Consistent with this, I think there are _some_ significant questions that haven't been answered, though like PG I'm sceptical that any more light will emerge here. This case will go further, or more likely some compromise will be found that will enable both sides to stop wasting money on lawyers.
Meanwhile, I'm off with SB in a couple hours to play football against the Megève Veterans side, assuming the snow is cleared from the pitch. One more example of friendly integration!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pacman wrote: |
This will go to the European Courts of Human Rights ultimately.
I understand that Simon will be putting information on his website in the near future.
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I noticed that this was one of the most viewed Snowhead's topics so.... takes deep breath
I never saw anything on the SBS website relating to this case, in fact looks like business as usual down in Megeve. No decamp to Italy etc. SBS is still advertising as Basi Grade 1, did he get qualified over the summer as other posters including Easiski said he wasn't properly accredited?
I guess the appeal to the European Court of Human Rights must be pretty advanced now, any news?
Just toying with the idea of going to Megeve this winter. Personally I don't care a bunch about whether SBS is Basi 1 or not if he offers a good service, but I agree it seems a bit bad for people who have jumped through the Basi hoops.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I read somewhere that the appeal would be heard sometime around the autumn, in Chambéry. I did see jobs in Megeve advertised with Natives...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sherman-maeir wrote: |
| SBS is still advertising as Basi Grade 1, did he get qualified over the summer as other posters including Easiski said he wasn't properly accredited? |
I have seen SB's BASI 1 certificate, dating from 1985, if memory serves correctly.
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sherman-maeir, being a BASI I wasn't the problem as far as I remember, it was the fact that equivalence hadn't been obtained.
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| laundryman wrote: |
I have seen SB's BASI 1 certificate, dating from 1985, if memory serves correctly. |
Thanks a lot, Laundryman, what news ot the European Court appeal?
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| sherman-maier wrote: |
No decamp to Italy etc. |
I think that "decamping" to Italy and behaving the same way would lead to the same reaction from the autorithies..
At least a permission would be needed to work.
As an example, read this
http://www.suedtiroler-skischule.it/lbks/index-e.htm
and further, click on foreign ski instructor
http://www.suedtiroler-skischule.it/lbks/unterricht-e.htm
This is South Tyrol, and so things are more clearly expressend than in other regions of Italy; I have yet to find similar informations for Lombardy, Piedmont and Valle d'Aosta, even thouhgt I hope that somewhere, in the meanders of the region's website the info is published.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 13-09-04 13:33; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sherman-maeir wrote: |
| Thanks a lot, Laundryman, what news ot the European Court appeal? |
I think PG is right regarding the Chambéry appeal. The French system of appeals would have to be exhausted before going to the European level: I think that comprises two stages beyond Chambéry. While appeals are pending, it's my understanding that the authorities cannot act to prevent the business from operating. There are also other forms of organisation that SB might be able to adopt that should get around the issues - I think PG had a suggestion earlier in the thread. All in all, you should be quite safe booking for next season, as I have done - maybe I'll see you there.
Caveat: I am not a lawyer, let alone a French one!
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sherman-maeir, As PG said it's not a question of his BASI qualification (he is a Grade 1, but whether he's up to date I don't know), but that he failed to complete other modules required to work on the Continent. These are now common to France, Britain, Italy and Austria, he had 2 years to do it in, and, as I understand it, failed to make the effort.
I NEVER said he wasn't qualified.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Blimey, this old chestnut. Some very interesting comments though. I am a BASI qualified instructor working in Canada and last season (03/04) worked and shared a flat with a French instructor. What an amazing skier, unfortunately he couldn't teach for toffee.
His attitude was unless you can beat him in a race and can teach in 2 languages you were not a good instructor. Having worked in France for 2 seasons this does seem to be a common theme. Is it something ENSA drill into them?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I understand that the Court in Bonneville have now quashed the fines and that the French are no longer attempting to apply their own rules but are accepting International qualifications.
The newspaper Le Dauphiné Libéré carried an article on 23 December (no longer available on their website). Unfortunately I don't have a paper copy available but I have read it. Below is one of the articles that appeared on that date. The remainder I have not been able to get a copy of. Would anyone with local knowledge care to enlighten us?
In essence it appears that the Court was not impressed by the argument that people who did not receive instruction paid the same as those who did, and therefore the instruction was not paid for but was "free". However they accepted that the qualifications of the instructors were valid. In a separate case, fines were levied for breaches of employment law.
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À Megève, les pulls rouges broient du noir. En cause : ces tours operators qui embauchent du personnel venu d'Outre-Manche faisant office de théoriciens du ski. Des garçons qui ont le discours, la gestuelle, le bronzage des moniteurs mais qui n'ont pourtant pas les diplômes requis en France. Des monos Canada Dry en somme...
Officiellement, leurs employeurs les déclarent comme des valets de chambre. Ils sont payés 400 € par mois, nourris, logés. Selon leurs boss, ces moniteurs enseigneraient le ski "bénévolement" à des clients qui ont payé un "package" (hébergement, transports, nourriture tout compris) et qui, quoi qu'il arrive, n'iraient pas à l'école de ski.
Du côté de l'ESF, Gérard Apertet l'ex-directeur, crie à la concurrence déloyale. Certes, les tours operators drainent de la clientèle vers Megève. Mais au final, profite-t-elle à l'économie de la station? On a tôt fait de voir en ces valets enseignants des "marrons", de faux moniteurs.
Qui sont ces voyagistes de l'or blanc qui suscitent des rougeurs à la vue? Les sieurs Simon Butler, patron du Soleil d'Or et James Barrett Boyce, propriétaire du Clou Joly (ndlr, il aurait vendu depuis), sont dans le collimateur. Sur le secteur depuis 22 et 14 ans, ils ne peuvent ignorer la réglementation rappelée au gré de contrôles sur les pistes depuis 1997.
En 2004, ils étaient condamnés pour avoir employé des personnes qui n'avaient pas la qualification requise d'éducateur sportif. Peine d'amende de 10 000 € confirmée par la Cour d'appel de Chambéry. Depuis, ils persistent. Sur plainte de l'ESF, les gendarmes effectuaient un nouveau contrôle le 25 janvier 2006 et épinglaient les deux employeurs et cinq de leurs moniteurs pour récidive.
En mai dernier, un large spectre d'infractions, notamment au code du travail, leur était reproché. Retour au tribunal de Bonneville. Le 31 août, les deux prévenus étaient condamnés chacun à 10 000 € d'amende pour travail dissimulé (non déclaration des moniteurs auprès de la préfecture) et différentes infractions, notamment auprès de l'Urssaf. En revanche, ils bénéficiaient d'une relaxe pour l'emploi d'un étranger exerçant les fonctions de moniteur de ski sans s'être soumis aux tests prévus. La stupeur est montée cet automne à mesure qu'on prenait conscience de la portée du jugement. L'excellence du diplôme français s'en trouverait-elle fragilisée?
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I quite like the chutzpah evident in this quote:-
"Du côté de l'ESF, Gérard Apertet l'ex-directeur, crie à la concurrence déloyale. Certes, les tours operators drainent de la clientèle vers Megève. Mais au final, profite-t-elle à l'économie de la station?"
Perhaps it should have ended "profite-t-elle à l'économie du ESF?"
I was there last week on my own and drew 800 Euro from the hole in the wall. If it didn't profit the local economy where did it go? On top of that of course was the money spent locally by the hotel in feeding and housing me for the week.
There's an interesting article here on the general subject of the ESF and anti-competitive practices.
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| Greytop wrote: |
I understand that the Court in Bonneville have now quashed the fines and that the French are no longer attempting to apply their own rules but are accepting International qualifications.
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I have the original article if you want me to post a scan. It was written by Antoine Chandalier, a journalist from Chamonix, who I would note is not a huge fan of the Brits, at least not those the French consider to be working on the sly.
The article says that the original penalaties were upheld not quashed. It is not up to Bonneville to quash the fines but up to the appeal court in Chambéry. After that they can appeal to the court de Cassation in Paris then they might be given leave to appeal to Europe.
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En 2004, ils étaient condamnés pour avoir employé des personnes qui n'avaient pas la qualification requise d'éducateur sportif. Peine d'amende de 10 000 € confirmée par la Cour d'appel de Chambéry.
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The article says that they continued in their infractions and that there was a new control by the Gendarmerie in January 2006 for which further fines were levied by Bonneville court. They were let off one charge of employing a ski instructor without proper qualifications. That might simply be that the prosecutor didn't understand emloyment law and is unrelated to the earlier offence we discussed here in 2004. It doesn't confirm or otherwise what you have said above. As an aside they risk being excluded from France, the URSAAF charge is very poorly considered.
That is not to disagree with your point about the benefit their clients bring to Megeve or the unfair status given to the ESF in some resorts.
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You know it makes sense.
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Not a problem understanding French. Thanks for the background on the author. Unfortunately the article doesn't include all of the information that was on the page. There was additional material in the supporting articles, including one that made clear that the International qualifications were now being accepted and saying that the Court's decision set a precedent that was difficult to fault.
The article doesn't say that the original fine was upheld by Bonneville at the hearing on 31 August 2006, it says that the original fine was upheld by the appeal court in Chambery, which was some time ago. It also says
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En revanche, ils bénéficiaient d'une relaxe pour l'emploi d'un étranger exerçant les fonctions de moniteur de ski sans s'être soumis aux tests prévus.
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Indicating that the qualifications are now accepted without the need to pass the French tests. An achievement which will benefit other foreign instructors wishing to work in France. There was also a side article explaining the International Standards and the BASI grades.
The fact that the article is no longer available on the newspaper's website is perhaps as a result of a complaint from SB's lawyer of factual inaccuracies. I am told also that the majority of the legal issues resulting from the Gendarmerie's check (contrôle means "check") on 25 Jan 2006 were attributable to JBB's business, not SB's although the article rather unfairly lumps them both together without identifying what penalties were imposed on who.
Also interesting is
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Sur plainte de l'ESF, les gendarmes effectuaient un nouveau contrôle le 25 janvier 2006 et épinglaient les deux employeurs et cinq de leurs moniteurs pour récidive.
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The article makes it clear that the original charges of working while not holding valid Instructor Qualifications were not upheld, therefore there can have been no re-offending. As Sir Humphrey might put it "Some may say that having failed to get them for re-offending they went through the businesses with a fine tooth comb to find something they could be nailed with. I couldn't possibly comment."It is unfortunately a very badly written piece of work that confuses rather than clarifies and it's a pity that we can't see all of the supporting text that was on the original page.
In the other article it says that Gérard Apertet, who complains of unfair competition from foreign instructors is the same person who in an official capacity as Adjoint aux Sports de Megève rented municipal space to the ESF, of which he was a Director, at 10% of the Market Value, for which the Mairie was found guilty by the tribunal administratif de Grenoble in February 2003. I understand he is currently an Assistant Mayor of Megeve. Despite the newspaper article referring to him as "Gérard Apertet l'ex-directeur" he is listed on the official website of the Mairie de Megeve as "Directeur E.S.F."
All wonderful stuff!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Greytop, As I have understood the situation SB did not do the necessary to get his qualifications accepted. He had the chance and didn't bother. The others weren't properly qualified. ENSA have accepted international qualifications for some time (at least 15 years), but if you're not fully qualified then you can expect to be "controlled". The whole qualification thing is done and dusted anyway now, but I don't see why anyone should benefit from cheating the system.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| easiski wrote: |
| Greytop, As I have understood the situation SB did not do the necessary to get his qualifications accepted. He had the chance and didn't bother. The others weren't properly qualified. ENSA have accepted international qualifications for some time (at least 15 years), but if you're not fully qualified then you can expect to be "controlled". The whole qualification thing is done and dusted anyway now, but I don't see why anyone should benefit from cheating the system. |
I didn't read anything in the original article saying that French positions had actually changed. When I find it I will post a scan here.
Antoine Chandelier's original article seemed to be whinging about the fact that British instructors (BASI 1s and BASI 2s) are allowed to work in France at all and mixing this whinge with some stuff about SB and JBB.
To recap:-
1. SB and JBB prosecuted for some controventions of French employment law in Bonneville court, notably not having completed some paperwork to get their BASI 1 equivalance and employing trainees without training center status or without sufficient qualifications to work in France
2. charges appealed but the appeal rejected in Chambery - they may appeal further of course
3. New charges on different counts at Bonneville
> Indicating that the qualifications are now accepted without the need to pass the French tests.
I don't really see that in the text, there are a myriad of reasons, which Chandelier doesn't give, for why the court may not have pursued this charge. There may have been some technical problem with the way the charge was brought. The instructor may have been a BASI 2 therefore able to work in France as a trainee and I note that they were still charged prosecuted on: non déclaration des moniteurs auprès de la préfecture.; which may have involved their employment of a trainee without getting the necessary training centre status.
The only "French" test that needs to be passed is the Eurotest (which BASI seem to support as an idea). Indeed things are slightly easier for BASIs as they can take this test towards the end of their training whereas French trainees have to pass a technical test early on. [edited: Easkski provides some clarification on this point earlier in the thread]
I think this was pretty much covered in the the thread and hopefully Easiski can put me right but
i. BASI 1s can work as instructors on their own account if they have the Eurotest (ex test de capacite)
ii. BASI 2s can work in France as trainees in registered training centers
iii. BASI 3s cannot work in France as they are expected to gain experience in their country of origin before working abroad
iv. BASI snowboard instructors can work in France if they have followed the BASI mountain safety and other common modules (tronc commun in the French equivalent exams) and have FIS points
The only changes I can see post the original prosecution are the French acceptance of BASI snowboard instructors and an attempt to restrict training center status to ESF schools in small resorts (which is probably illegal under European competition rules).
> the Court's decision set a precedent that was difficult to fault
Bonneville court cannot set any precidence as it is a lower court. Only the Cour de cassation can establish jurisprudence for other courts to follow. As Easiski says, British BASIs have been able to work in France for a long time; but this seems to have been news to Chandelier.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 15-01-07 11:50; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Terry Wells wrote: |
| Jonpim, It's not a secret. France (like most of Europeland) just applies whatever euro-laws are convenient for its own nationals and ignors the rest. It's mainly just the stupid British who actually enforce euro-laws, usually against the interests of British people. |
Im with the French on this one.
Protect your own home Job Market first. Locals first should take the jobs rather than imports.
It maybe European Law but it sucks IMO. Some of these local people do not have any jobs all year & when winter comes they get an influx of foreigners taking the very few jobs available. I wouldnt really care how many qualifications an outsider has I still think the local job market should come first.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stanton, are you working in Switzerland?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Davidof
I said "Indicating that the qualifications are now accepted without the need to pass the French tests." to which you replied:-"I don't really see that in the text"
How about
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| En revanche, ils bénéficiaient d'une relaxe pour l'emploi d'un étranger exerçant les fonctions de moniteur de ski sans s'être soumis aux tests prévus. La stupeur est montée cet automne à mesure qu'on prenait conscience de la portée du jugement. L'excellence du diplôme français s'en trouverait-elle fragilisée? |
Which I render as:-
"On the other hand, they are benefiting from a relaxation that allows them to employ a foreigner as a ski instructor without the need to pass the tests that were previously required. Stupefaction mounted as they (ESF) began to understand the ramifications of the judgement. Has the excellence of the french diploma been weakened?"
The whole thrust of the article is that the "Pulls Rouges" are under threat as a result of the judgement.
Easiski
It looks as though the French have now accepted that EU law prevails and that they were wrong. If that is indeed the case then "cheating the system" is wide of the mark. If you want some evidence of cheating the system read the other article where it says that a public official was involved in a scam in which municipal property was let to a private company of which he was a Director at 10% of the market rate. What penalty would that merit in the UK?
To be sure SB could have submitted to the French demands and got french acceptance without having to do the test, taking advantage of the exemption that was available to him and just filling in the paperwork. This was merely a paper exercise and would have proved nothing. He was pig-headed enough not to knuckle under and to challenge them. Doing so has cost him a lot of money but as a result he has made it easier for other foreign ski instructors to work in France, something for which he should perhaps receive some acknowledgement.
Stanton
Whether you agree or disagree with the law that allows a free labour market within the EU is perhaps irrelevant, it exists.
In my post yesterday I said "Would anyone with local knowledge care to enlighten us?" Unfortunately that hasn't happened so we're stuck with trying to interpret the not very concise article by Antoine Chandalier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Greytop wrote: |
| a public official was involved in a scam in which municipal property was let to a private company of which he was a Director at 10% of the market rate. What penalty would that merit in the UK? |
My guess is suspension on full pay for 18m while the matter was investigated followed by parting 'by mutual agreement' with a large 6 figure pay off and full pension rights. The person would then become a director of a well known financial institution or the like.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Greytop wrote: |
Davidof
I said "Indicating that the qualifications are now accepted without the need to pass the French tests." to which you replied:-"I don't really see that in the text"
How about
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| En revanche, ils bénéficiaient d'une relaxe pour l'emploi d'un étranger exerçant les fonctions de moniteur de ski sans s'être soumis aux tests prévus. La stupeur est montée cet automne à mesure qu'on prenait conscience de la portée du jugement. L'excellence du diplôme français s'en trouverait-elle fragilisée? |
Which I render as:-
"On the other hand, they are benefiting from a relaxation that allows them to employ a foreigner as a ski instructor without the need to pass the tests that were previously required. Stupefaction mounted as they (ESF) began to understand the ramifications of the judgement. Has the excellence of the french diploma been weakened?"
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I read that as:
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| On the other hand they were acquitted (or discharged) for having employed a foreigner who was working as a ski instructor without having taken the required tests.... |
It is like if you are charged with speeding, just because you get acquitted by the local court doesn't mean you can speed everywhere in future. As I mentioned earlier regarding the ramifications of the judgement (if any). The Bonneville court doesn't set jurisprudence as it is the lowest level of French court. If they appeal the earlier Chambery verdict and win at the Cass this would be significant.
Anyway I will try to find out a bit more about why SB was acquitted on this count but it won't be until tomorrow. However as you know him well you could just ask him?
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I've suggested that he might care to put something on here so we'll see if he does when he gets off the slopes. I know him as a result of 9 trips to Megeve as a satisfied customer. As an instructor I rate him very highly. His team of instructors get ongoing instruction from him and he takes no prisoners when it comes to making them perform the way he wants them to, i.e. to a consistently high standard. He has a very high rate of return business based on the quality of the instruction, typically around 6 students per instructor. They certainly don't return for the quality of the accomodation. Last week we had 3 guests in our group plus a couple of chalet staff and our instructor was a 23 year old BASI 2 who had the unenviable task of coping with three fifty-something male guests whose preparation for the lesson consisted of an extremely convivial lunch every day. We were indiviually debriefed after every exercise. By contrast I counted 12 people in a snake following a single ESF instructor during one of the quietest weeks of the season.
If we go skiing elsewhere we don't take instruction, nor would we if we were staying elsewhere in Megeve. SB gets our money because we like Megeve and we like the camaraderie of the chalet-hotel. I've been to Val d'Isere, Courchevel and Zermatt with Scott Dunn and also to Courchevel St Anton and Val with Ski Val. They both offer an entirely different product where the quality of the catering and accommodation is much superior to what SB offers. While you might compare Ski-Val and Scott Dunn as two levels of a similar product, SB is something else entirely.
I'm not an apologist for SB, a hotelier and a diplomat he is not. Also don't ask me to apply logic to why we do what we do 
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Stewart has posted the latest information on BASI status here:-
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22979#525319
so as from this year BASI 3's can teach as a stagiere if they complete the test technique - same as French trainees. So there appears to be a pretty good equivalance. As I mentioned above British BASI snowboard instructors can also teach in France (there is no equivalant French exam) with some caveats. This again is new for the 2007 season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stanton wrote: |
| Terry Wells wrote: |
| Jonpim, It's not a secret. France (like most of Europeland) just applies whatever euro-laws are convenient for its own nationals and ignors the rest. It's mainly just the stupid British who actually enforce euro-laws, usually against the interests of British people. |
Im with the French on this one.
Protect your own home Job Market first. Locals first should take the jobs rather than imports.
It maybe European Law but it sucks IMO. Some of these local people do not have any jobs all year & when winter comes they get an influx of foreigners taking the very few jobs available. I wouldnt really care how many qualifications an outsider has I still think the local job market should come first. |
There are enough French and Austrians working in England, to make it fair should this be restricted?
The French own various English companies (e.g. London Electricity) should this be stopped?
When the market is closed to competition the service and costs tend to be less than fair. When I ski with an instructor / guide I want a good one not just what the ski school throws at me.
........ and what would these ski villages be without us Johnny foreigners spending our money on skiing? small farming villages? What about the seasonal workers, do they get the same as the locals in terms of pay?
The bottom line is an Austrian or French person can come to England and get a job no problem, but it's a one way street.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| stanton, are you working in Switzerland? |
1. Switzerland is not in the EU
2. I Consult in Switzerland and have a permit to do so. I consult for a 100% Swiss company, paid, taxed, insured in Switzerland. I was hired from outside of CH for specific knowlege transfer to locals.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stanton
1. I'm well aware of Switzerland's status.
2. I'm glad you're so special as to be exempted from your general rule - and that you don't regard people working in a foreign country as a wholly bad thing.
As you know, we have free movement of labour within the EU, which means (or should) customers deciding who should have jobs, rather than bureaucrats splitting hairs on the nature of a particular employment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| stanton wrote: |
| laundryman wrote: |
| stanton, are you working in Switzerland? |
I Consult in Switzerland and have a permit to do so. I consult for a 100% Swiss company, paid, taxed, insured in Switzerland. I was hired from outside of CH for specific knowlege transfer to locals. |
All Swiss companies who employ non-Swiss staff say this.  They have to otherwise the people won't get work permits. It is, of course, bollox in most cases and the companies just indulge in a bit of creative writing to satisfy the law.
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You know it makes sense.
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laundryman,
Work in Ski Resorts is very seasonal & locals rely on this work to make ends meet for the rest of the year.
I just think as a general rule locals should have first option on any jobs that are available. OK if they do not want to do the jobs available then bring in the externals.
Look after number 1 first. This im afraid is where the EU has gone completey mad. You have your own Nationla on the unemployment register while foreigners do the work
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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stanton, you've fallen for the "fixed quantity of work" fallacy. In this case, I know the ski instructors I want in Megève and if rules are constructed so as to render them unavailable, it's not going to do any Megève resident any good, and harm to plenty as my (and others') business is taken elsewhere, probably beyond France. Fortunately, this does not seem to be on the cards at the moment, as sanity has prevailed for now at least.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stanton wrote: |
laundryman,
Work in Ski Resorts is very seasonal & locals rely on this work to make ends meet for the rest of the year.
I just think as a general rule locals should have first option on any jobs that are available. OK if they do not want to do the jobs available then bring in the externals.
Look after number 1 first. This im afraid is where the EU has gone completey mad. You have your own Nationla on the unemployment register while foreigners do the work |
I know of a french ski instructor who decided to go and work in London as a broker. His ability to speak native French was a big positive as he is dealing with the French market. Turn that around and even though I speak German I can understand some English people wanting an English instructor. There's a difference between speaking a bit of conversational English and being able to explain ski terms and concepts to students. If the teacher can't get himself/herself over to the student it doesn't matter how well the teacher skis.
Haven't you worked in a ski resort at some time? if so didn't you do exactly what you are arguing against at the moment?
I'm not against the local people earning a crust, I'm against these big ski schools running the mountain as though they own it. When they know there's no competition they can treat and charge us what they like.
To take St Anton as an example there's possibly more ski instructors now (a few hundred) than there were people in St Anton before the ski boom. It's not a case of work being taken away from the locals it's a case of the ski Schools wanting to take all the profit and pushing competition out from the new business created by the ski boom (even if it is against European rules).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've never understood why other EU citizens can't set up ski schools in Austria. It seems a total closed shop, I guess even an enterprising young Austrian instructor couldn't set up his own school either.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| In this case, I know the ski instructors I want in Megève. |
It does seem like it should be up to you how you spend your money as long as the people offering you the service are not trying to deceive, which doesn't seem to be the case with SB.
After a long struggle ski schools are pretty open in France compared to areas like Chemists, Tobacconists and Notaries where the government operates a “numeros clauses”; only a certain number can operate in a designated area.
This all seems to go against the free market but is the French way of state capitalism.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laundryman,
I have not fallen for anything. I have an opinion & it not the same as yours. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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D G Orf,
Its not just in the UK . The problems you refer to are exactly the same in Holland,Denmark,Germany,Austria,Belgium,Sweden to name just a few.
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FAQ
