 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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miranda, how can it be of a different gender if it is an autograft, i.e. from your own body? Or are you playing with the gender assignation of French terminilogy? 
I was surprised as I thought I had read that you had had a hamstring graft like AndAnotherThing ....
Allografts are not all that common on this side of the Pond, especially in continental hospitals. My surgeon just shook his head and pulled a horrified face when I spoke to him about them prior to my last revision. I was not sure where they would take the graft from as I had already had patella and hamstring grafts used on both knees and I was not happy about the chances of using an allograft or artificial fibre graft!
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| Quote: |
| I was not sure where they would take the graft from as I had already had patella and hamstring grafts used on both knees and I was not happy about the chances of using an allograft or artificial fibre graft! |
Samerberg Sue, Old bail twine will be fine ! A knot at each end and job's a good un. Or maybe parachute cord would be better 
miranda Looks like they used a much smaller drill on you. Maybe that hints at a finer graft hence taking it easer at the start ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Samerberg Sue, Yes, sorry, I was amused/disconcerted by my surgeon constantly referring to the ligament as "he" and "him", presumably because he got so involved in explaining it all to me, he forgot that English doesn't work that way as his English is generally very good. I just thought, if my ligament has to have a gender, I'd kind of prefer it to be female 
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miranda,
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I don't know if this is a "French thing", but I'm very much my surgeon's patient
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No, not just a French thing. Once you go under the knife, the wielder of that knife should be the boss, albeit the boss of a good team which should be singing from the same hymn sheet. This is one of the reasons I was so anxious to get back to St Thomas' after I'd had my op: the whole team, including the large rehab team of physios, nurses, OTs etc, work as one, it is a really, really secure and joined-up environment. I feel sure that the physios won't press me to do anything of which either of my consultants would disapprove. Perhaps there are some that would say I am too trusting... 
Good news on your reimbursement, I'm still waiting to hear on mine.
I think you and AndAnotherThing.. are very brave to exchange different experiences on this thread and to expose yourselves to the inevitability of conflicting e-advice and anecdotal 'evidence'.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Samerberg Sue, Yes, sorry, I was amused/disconcerted by my surgeon constantly referring to the ligament as "he" and "him", presumably because he got so involved in explaining it all to me, he forgot that English doesn't work that way as his English is generally very good. I just thought, if my ligament has to have a gender, I'd kind of prefer it to be female |
That reminds me of the occasion when my mother took a call from one of my father's patients in the middle of the night. This woman was in a state of advanced hysteria, having just passed a tapeworm, and my mother - who had occasional slips in English, especially when woken in the middle of the night - did not improve matters by saying to her, as she thought, soothingly, 'Don't worry, it's really good that he showed himself.'
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AndAnotherThing.., I'm guessing the smaller drill also means smaller bone interference, explaining the lack of pain... As long as I turn out like the other people he's operated on and back to normal in 6 months, I don't mind at all if it's a very slow build up. I asked him what kind of stuff I could be doing once I go back and see him (which will be 3.5 months post op) and he said running and muscle work and proper cycling (not flat) etc. So at this stage I'm quite happy to do the flat stuff and swimming so I can get out and about and also not lose all CV capacity and just to take it easy generally (not that I tend towards laziness with regard to this sort of thing of course  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pedantica, that's good about your team at St. Thomas'. I'm not sure how common our experience is, though, as I know other people who've said when they go back for follow ups, they rarely get to see the same person that operated on them. I think my physios are baffled because they've never had anyone with this protocol before and they are not attatched to the hospital, though when I called to explain and cancel my appointments this morning, she did immediately say that we must listen to him as he knows what's going on inside the knee better than anyone - my thoughts exactly thankfully, as I think last time they thought perhaps I had misinterpreted what he was saying because it sounded ridiculously over-cautious. Now I understand a bit more, though, I'm happy to follow orders.
Fingers crossed for your reimbursement too.
I don't mind posting about my experience because there are loads of really depressing threads and blogs out there about this injury, operation and rehab and first post injury google results could really have you reaching for the vodka bottle and never mind the shot glasses! I'll be very honest if I get down or have pain, but I can genuinely say it's just not been like that all for me so far. If the surgeon had said don't do anything for another 2 months, I think clouds of gloom definitely would have appeared on the horizon, but I'm happy with cycling, swimming and walking. The one thing that I did say early on in this thread, before knowing how different our protocols would be, was I had to remind myself not to try to keep up with AndAnotherThing..'s progress!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| As long as I turn out like the other people he's operated on and back to normal in 6 months, I don't mind at all if it's a very slow build up. |
I was back on my skis at 5.5 months after my last ACL reconstruction! Luckily for me my main physio was also a ski instructor and the owner of a ski lift (our local area is a co-operative), so I skied with him for the first few hours. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| miranda wrote: |
| but I'm happy with cycling, swimming and walking. The one thing that I did say early on in this thread, before knowing how different our protocols would be, was I had to remind myself not to try to keep up with AndAnotherThing..'s progress! |
ha ha, but I did have a head start, and cycling, swimming and walking is pretty much all I'm doing, exercises aside. The big difference is I added a bit of fishing too
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AndAnotherThing.., well it's a good job I think competitive rehab and recovery threads are a really stupid idea, because I would definitely lose on the fishing bit - I see loads of people fishing round here and just think... no, don't get it. Though has to be said they all look happy, so maybe if I gave it a try one day, I might see the attraction.
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You know it makes sense.
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So not done any cycling, swimming or walking over the last few days as we have a full house for the Etape and the Tour. As a consequence, though I have been rushing round the building like a mad thing and cooking meals for large groups and I have felt 90% like a normal person. Only 90% because I take it really slowly to kneel down and because I've still been going downstairs putting two feet on the same step.... until just now. Decided I had time to give it a go and made it down the stairs in the normal fashion without any weirdness! So now I feel 95% normal (because I can't see myself just kneeling down naturally, without thinking about it first for a while). Ridiculous how pleased being able to walk downstairs normally has made me - but it has! This is 7 weeks post-op and feeling better and better everyday. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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miranda, brilliant! So pleased for you.
Went to my own gym today, first visit this year!  Back to about 50% of previous fitness now, maybe even a bit more than that, not too bad six weeks and four days after open heart surgery. Even managed some upper body work, as the surgeon told me on Thursday that there's no danger of messing up his handiwork at this point.
Annoying that the leg press at the gym wasn't working - my own creaky knees need a LOT of attention before I'll be fit to ski. At this rate maybe a visit to Hemel by mid-August might be possible, though. Hope so.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Pedantica, amazing to think how much more quickly you will be back on skis after such a full-on operation compared to us with our gammy knees... obviously a great surgeon, but shows you must have been in no bad shape before the op too!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hiya folks,
Thought I'd pop my head in and say hello! It seems everyone is doing well, although I have lost track of how long since surgery most of you are.
I'm nearly 4 weeks. Scars are doing fine. I've hired an automatic car so I can get about, as ive been told not to drive a manual until at least 6 weeks.
I had one to one with a physio for the first three weeks, at the hospital (private hospital but subcontracting for the NHS). On Wednesday this week I join a group physio session, again at the hospital. Its a one hour session in the gym doing some general exercises and some specifics for the knee, with everyone getting some individual attention to check progress. I doubt if there will be many in the group as its a small hospital, and a small gym, although it has all the usual kit. The others in the group have all had knee ops and are all in different stages of recovery. The group is made up of 'young' people - cant be that young with me in it, but what that means is they have a separate class for older people who have had knee replacements due to age.
I don't feel like I've made much progress. I'm doing the physio exercises three times a day. If I spend any time, say half hour, walking around it swells up and so I'm icing regularly. I'm doing an hour in the office morning and afternoon which doesn't do it any favours as I'm sat still and it seizes up, more ice when I get home. I spent a few hours walking, with both crutches, last weekend with family at an animal park and it set me back days. It swelled up worse than ever. Prior to that I had just about got it straight but I've struggled with that ever since. When I saw the physio it was very swollen and sore. She wrapped an ice pack around it, she put oil on my skin to prevent burns, and then put the ice pack directly on. Boy it was cold, but it did the job!
I'm happy with no crutches mostly, but they're handy for making people give me plenty of clearance! I'm still getting quite a lot of pain if I don't take painkillers, so I'm still taking them otherwise I'd never be able to make myself do the exercises.
I saw my surgeon last week and now don't see him until 12 weeks. He seemed quite happy. He asked if I had 'any problems at all with the knee at the moment'. Possibly a bit of a stupid question, as clearly I have lots of problems! But I'm worrying that he's expecting problems because of my bone disintegrating when he tried to screw into it. When he manipulated it, it felt really stable up and down, but it did move side to side. I wish I'd asked to see this on the other leg so I could compare. Has anyone else got any idea how much movement they have in the joint since surgery? I'm hoping to get lots of useful info from all the others in the group physio.
Well it's bedtime, not sleeping well either because of the pain, and then feeling really sleepy during the day. Good job it's our quiet time at work!
Night all
x
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debbiem, Thanks for posting - keep at it !!
I'm only guessing as I'm no medic, but it may be that your 'soft' bone is taking longer to heal after the op causing the swelling. Everyone will have different healing rates and 6 weeks isn't so long. I think my first visit to my 'sports' physio was at about that point and the first thing she did was focus on reducing the swelling further and moderating the amount of walking I was doing.
Be patient and it will come to you 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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debbiem, when I was going to physio sessions, I did always notice that it was harder to fully extend after exercising, so everything you've said sounds normal. I didn't try and walk around anywhere near as much as you did - a few hours (even with crutches) at 4 weeks sounds full on! Main thing is, your surgeon is happy. Are you having tests on your bone? Why not ask your physio to wiggle both your legs so you can actually feel if there's any difference - it definitely does help you to get a sense of what's going on in your knee! Sorry to hear you're still in pain, though. Are you taking paracetamol? Do you have anything to help you sleep?
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Thanks Andanotherthing, and Miranda, glad to know I sound normal! I'm not planning on doing another day trip out in the near future, learnt my lesson.
I'm having a bone density scan on Wednesday so at least if I do have a problem I can deal with it. Done some googling and it seems there are pills that can help as well as extra vitamin D and calcium.
Good idea about asking the physio. Need to write a list - poor chap!
Patience, I don't have any. You both seem so chilled about your knees. I'm a bad patient!
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| debbiem wrote: |
| Patience, I don't have any. You both seem so chilled about your knees. |
I'm not sure about that !! Very keen to be back skiing, walking and climbing ASAP so pushing it as much as I can.
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I'm keen to be back skiing and hiking within 6 months of the op and so am following doctor's orders and not pushing it at all! We had a physio staying here last week as a guest who just couldn't get their head round my protocol (or rather the lack of it!)... but equally she was very surprised at how normal I looked whilst dashing around. One thigh is 2cm smaller than the other though (not that you can tell when I've got my jeans on)! The size difference was actually much more pronounced than that after the initial injury and I got it all back before the operation, so I'm not too worried about it.
debbiem, I am being a good patient because I really like and trust my surgeon and because things seem to be going really well for me so far. My physio was suggesting I might be able to do some very mild hiking soon and that started a few feelings of impatience as I wanted to know when, how far, how long, what sort of terrain etc. But now, after talking to the surgeon, I am resigned to the fact that I will not get to go hiking this summer and having a firm answer on that actually makes it much easier to accept. When I sit on the terrace looking at the sunny mountains, and giving guests the routes to my favourite walks, I remind myself how lucky I am that things have gone well and that if I do as I'm told, I will be able to get up there in the autumn (which is actually a lovely time of year for walking - unless winter comes early and that's no bad thing at all in the Aps, so it's a win-win situation!)
Fingers crossed that you hear some good news from the scan tomorrow, but good to know that there are things you can do - I keep thinking I must make more effort to increase my Vitamin D intake.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hello all.
I did my ACL in the right knee in mid-June racing my downhill bike in the alps, and am having surgery in the next month.
I have read through most of the pages of posts and have seen how people have got back to skiing, but I just wondered if anyone has had the operation and been able to get back to serious off piste skiing on wide skis, and hucking/jumping etc.? It seems that everyone has mentioned getting back on piste and a little off piste but I wondered if there was anyone that has got back to serious backcountry off piste and wether or not they did any extra rehab or anything different to ease back in to that, and did you find it more hard work? Did you feel as confident?
I am dying to get back skiing but as I can only really take 2 or 3 weeks a year on a skiing trip I wondered whether or not I'd be able to get back to using fattys in powder or wether id just have to spend the first winter just on piste.
Hope this makes sense,
cheers
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hazamadcow, Sorry to hear that you have joined the 'club'.
It's certainly my intention to be back skiing off piste and race training again ASAP but as to how long that will take remains to be seen. The 6 month point for me will be the start of November so I'm targeting a trip out to Tignes late November to start some on snow piste based 'rehab'
However, when I mention my intention to be skiing again at that stage to my physio's they do tend to shrug and say "maybe" so perhaps it's not a given. We'll see. I can also see that I'll be educating them about the movement pattens required for skiing rather than this wriggling the hips business they seem to associate with the sport.
Some Snowheads are a bit further through the process than us so have a look at the threads below. The news is pretty positive:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1871684&highlight=acl+rehab#1871684
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=715113&highlight=acl+rehab#715113
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes I've also found that physio's, even ones that ski, seem to think of it as just like big lunges, I want to show them Seth Morrisson videos so they see what the knee really takes (maybe I'll tell them its me and not SM).
January Should be my 6 month mark so I'm hoping that I wont rule out skiing this winter as im only 19 fingers crossed it will heal faster than they expect.
I just hope I havent made a mistake in buying some new Line Blends 100mm, and find that I wont be able to put them to good use, I dont want to spend the rest of my life smashing out red runs!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hazamadcow, I've bought some Coreupt Pow's which are 105 underfoot as my new powder ski. Fingers crossed I'll be able to put them to good use 
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hazamadcow, i've never been much of a hucker but i ski off piste as much as I can. powder really isn't much a problem. crust is much more scary if you have a bad knee until you get your confidence back. i find my bad knee protests more than my good knee if i use wide skis on hardpack - it's only really an issue if i do that all day - not a problem if you are just hitting the odd bit of hardpack and using pistes to get back to the lift.
in terms of getting your confidence back, I guess everyone if different. I ski quite fast when the conditions allow but I am reasonably careful - I don't fall too often. it took a few stacks before i realised that every fall would not do my knee in again
i am skiing now better than I did before my injury so if you rehab right, you have a decent chance of skiing like you did before your injury
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You know it makes sense.
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ps - 100mm isn't wide
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for that reply thats given me more confidence. No 100mm isn't that wide but it is for skiing on piste, and if thats what I have to do for the next couple of trips then I will be bummed that I spent money on something as wide as that underfoot! haha
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Poster: A snowHead
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hazamadcow, wow you are having surgery really quickly. As regards your skis just rent something decent for a couple of days and you can extend if you need to stay on piste longer.
I did my ACL in March a couple of days before AndAnotherThing.., and am still waiting for a decision on surgery or not. I am encouraged by Arno's post above and about positive effects of injuries but am concerned I am too old at 48 to enjoy the same improvement in my skiing. That was meant to be my 14th week...
FWIW my knee isn't too bad and isn't giving way. Still trying to fully hyperextend it though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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hazamadcow, I got hold of some really quite soft piste skis for my return. I quickly forgot about my knee once I was back on the boards as well, although the first tentative turns on an icy nursery slope reduced me to tears initially. Then I went to a better area (a red with good snow coverage) and was fine. I was just being too cautious and not relaxed as a result. After a couple of runs I was back to normal and was tackling the moguls by the end of the day. I returned to off-piste as well but back then we all used the same skis, no fat boogers available unless you were with the heli outfits.
Sadly doing the other knee badly has made me decide that the risks involved should an accident occur are just too great now, so I have become a purely piste basher.
BTW I did the other knee slipping on black ice on the pavement as I was walking to my car! Nothing directly to do with skiing, although I did ski later that day and for 2 days after that until the pain forced me off the hill. As I was only teaching schoolkids I was not exactly being stretched most of the time, so it was doable, just!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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hazamadcow,
Skiing off piste isn't a problem nor is skiing on something as skinny as 100mm on piste (assuming you are male). I took it easy for about the first day back skiing (at 6 months) then thought sod it and continued much as before, even abandoning my Donjoy brace in favour of metal and neoprene jobbies because I found it too unnatural. I had tried it for a hour or so in a fridge before booking the holiday however just to check I was ok.
A properly fat ski (say 120+) will put more strain on your knees on piste and you will probably lack a bit of stamina but if you do your rehab properly it's mainly about rebuilding muscle mass in 3-6 month period (lunges & leg presses). Hucking is probably as much in your head as anything - but then you can blow your knee anyday hucking which, in addition to rank incompetence, is why I don't do it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AndAnotherThing.., that sounds great. Actually knee is feeling pretty good this evening bit of time spent cycling the last couple of days.
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So a new test of the knee this week (2 months on) as I travelled back from London to Geneva on my own, with a suitcase. No big deal.... except I was very late.
Tube to London Bridge, too late to find out where the lift was and had a feeling it would take me to the wrong part of the station so carried bag up the stairs until I got to the escalators, speed walked/half ran across the concourse and made it onto train to Gatwick just as the doors were closing, lovely train conductor went and looked up timetables without me asking and suggested I change trains onto a slightly faster service at a later stop and that I had two minutes to go up and down a flight of stairs and cross under the platforms to catch the other train, made it, got the shuttle to North Terminal and checked in just as they were closing the flight, then another speed walk to the gate which was miles away after security and miraculously got there just as they were boarding.
No twinges, pain or swelling. My knee coped MUCH better than my stress levels!
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miranda, It's nice when it copes with the 'real world' !
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A strange day today. A visit to my NHS physio resulted in her deciding that there wasn't much more she can do for me and she wants close my case as she doesn't think there is more she can do for me. I negotiated an option to see her if needed until the next appointment with the surgeon in September but that was a push.
The odd thing is that although I'm making progress I'm in no way ready for a return to sport which I assumed was the tricky bit !
Looks like I'm in the hands of the physio's at Lilleshall and their cruel and unusual rehab exercises.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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AndAnotherThing.., what are the cruel and unusual things they make you do?
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AndAnotherThing.., strange that the NHS physio is looking to release you just when you should in fact be getting the best input from them on safely upping your work to include strength as well as intensive proprioception work. Do you think this is an indication of the cutbacks, so they have too many patients and not enough time? Lucky you have Lilleshall just down the road as a back up /replacement.
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FAQ
