 Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, line 1 of one of your posts:
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| Listen folks, the day I go for in for emotional blackmail it will come with a suitable health warning - OK? |
...and from the next post:
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| preaching or moralising I am not, and don't intend to |
Back to the first post, emotional blackmail in red, preaching/moralising in blue.
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Call the situation hypothetical if you wish, but I still believe that if you send someone out to rescue someone who has an injury that could have been avoided you endanger those sent and also cost someone somewhere cash and resources - the helicopter sent to retrieve an avoidable injury could therefore be unavailable for a more serious unavoidable incident.
Sorry, but its just how I was bought up, I was always taught the difference between right and wrong and that includes deference to services that are provided by the emergency services and similar folks. You try to avoid putting yourself in a situation which requires their assistance so they are free to do their jobs elsewhere.
So now you are going to say that I ski and it therefore invalidates my own argument. I think the fact that skiing is not the safest sport on the planet has to be accepted, however, we all like doing it, it ranks alongside driving a car, riding a bicycle, riding a horse, motorbike etc. as risky things we all decide to do. I think the emergency services probably accept it as such - if they are local it no doubt provides employment for someone in their family so they are probably pleased to see you on their mountain. However, in terms of managing the risk I think the addition of a helmet is a relatively small thing to do and could prevent an unnecessary call out. I also feel the same about horse riders that I see in hi-vis jackets - this is becoming more popular and I am always pleased as a motorist to see a rider wearing one - I think it shows a responsible outlook and it could avoid a nasty accident. However, as with the ski helmet issue you couldn't say though shalt wear a hi-vis jacket because we still believe in free speach and in the ability of each individual to make their own decision. As I've indicated above these are only my thoughts, I am as entitled to them as the rest of you are to your's.
Whether you wear a helmet or not makes no difference to me, until the day when I might find myself snowploughing an adjacent black run to save you from unconsciousness and possible suffocation on your own tongue because you've tumbled without a helmet and your head has struck a rock and I'm the one that saw you fall from my nearby blue run - don't worry I'll come though regardless of what anyone has said here 'cos I'm trained to do so.  |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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laundryman, All you seem to do is take the p1ss out of people who choose to wear a ski helmet. You could say that was a form of emotional blackmail too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| laundryman, All you seem to do is take the p1ss out of people who choose to wear a ski helmet. You could say that was a form of emotional blackmail too. |
As an occasional helmet wearer I can't recall a single comment from laundryman when I felt he was taking the p1ss out of me. In fact, I couldn't really say whether he was for or against helmets (personally or for others), although I'd guess he is pro-choice.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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just to make another point about "trained to do so" in the context of injuries........ i spent time many years ago working on the ski patrol part time at nevis range and did an EMT course to go with this...the average first aiser i have come across is great if granny falls in the street but wouldn't have the balls to deal with may of the accidents i have seen BTW a snow fence through the leg and an open fracture of the femur can happen whether or not you are wearing a helmet
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[quote="laundryman"]Megamum, line 1 of one of your posts:
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| Listen folks, the day I go for in for emotional blackmail it will come with a suitable health warning - OK? |
...and from the next post:
| Quote: |
| preaching or moralising I am not, and don't intend to |
Back to the first post, emotional blackmail in red, preaching/moralising in blue.
Those are, of course, puurely your opinions, just as what yuo were highlighting were just Megamum's opinions.
My opinion is that while there was certainly stuff in there that could reasonably be described as moralising/preaching, there wasn't anything that I would describe as "emotional blackmail".
I also feel it likely that 2-3 people are letting the fact they don't like Megamum affect their reading of her posts, and the way they react to those posts (and I recognise it is difficult not to be affected that way).
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| laundryman, All you seem to do is take the p1ss out of people who choose to wear a ski helmet. You could say that was a form of emotional blackmail too. |
As an occasional helmet wearer I can't recall a single comment from laundryman when I felt he was taking the p1ss out of me. In fact, I couldn't really say whether he was for or against helmets (personally or for others), although I'd guess he is pro-choice. |
Then perhaps it would be useful if he did state his opinion, since he's being so critical of some others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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alex_heney, I only "know" Megamum through my reading of her posts.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Then perhaps it would be useful if he did state his opinion, since he's being so critical of some others. |
Maybe, like me, his opinion is that being preached at is a bad thing, and people should make up their own minds about the advantages and disadvantages of wearing a helmet? Seems to be a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold, in my opinion of course.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Then perhaps it would be useful if he did state his opinion, since he's being so critical of some others. |
Maybe, like me, his opinion is that being preached at is a bad thing, and people should make up their own minds about the advantages and disadvantages of wearing a helmet? Seems to be a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold, in my opinion of course. |
Of course people should make up their own minds, but you'd think that some people reading threads like this are in the process of deciding whether or not to buy a helmet and would be interested to hear opinions and experiences on both sides. I just think it's a bit unfair to slate someone's personal opinion without fully disclosing their own.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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wow - this thread is heading for full blown train wreck status 
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Of course people should make up their own minds, but you'd think that some people reading threads like this are in the process of deciding whether or not to buy a helmet and would be interested to hear opinions and experiences on both sides. I just think it's a bit unfair to slate someone's personal opinion without fully disclosing their own. |
I think for those people who are using these threads to make a decision having opinion (whether that be preaching or not) clearly delineated from fact is probably a good thing.
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You know it makes sense.
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uktrailmonster, I don't wear a helmet in most circumstances. I have done when recommended by an off-piste guide or when it's been a condition of entering a race. I don't mind if others do on a routine basis. I don't want anybody to be forced into wearing one or not for recreational skiing.
As far as I my own decision making is concerned, there are factors on either side: when other people are weighing the factors, which is inevitably partially subjective, they may come to a different conclusion, which is no less valid. What I object to is an insistence that the arguments are all on one side (whichever side) and that by making one choice or another a person is intellectually or morally deficient.
Edit: I see that rob@rar accurately represented my opinion before me!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bit by bit health and safety issues are drifting in to our lives. I have never formally boarded off piste, but I believe that if you book a guide/lessons etc you must have a the necessary safety equipment to participate. Likewise you are prohibited from riding certain lifts that access offpiste runs with out a guide (St Anton?). Over the pond some resorts have decided not to build jumps for the snow parks this year. In some countries cyclists are required to wear helmets. Now I am sure that not too long ago such restrictions were not in place, and I would not be surprised that in 20 years time that it will be a requirement of ski resots that to use the piste/lifts that you will be required by law to have a head protection.
At the moment it is a personal choice, but the choice may well be taken away from every one in the future.
I think the biggest risk to skiers is when they attempt to ski runs that are way beyound their ability, and not whether or not they may have a helmet on their heads.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AxsMan wrote: |
uktrailmonster, Anyone using (the opinions voiced on) these threads as their sole guide in the helmet wearing decision, er, needs their head examining  |
Maybe they're crazy, that's your opinion, but people still do make decisions based on forum threads. It's a dedicated ski forum afterall, so people make lots of ski related decisions based on reading threads here. Whether it be skis, boots, gloves, jackets or even helmets.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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On the point of Helicopter availability (I speak of the French Alps, other ski areas are available) there is a thread with reference to the 4 or 5 organisations who are available for medivac in the mountains.
In Helicopter flying terms the area covered is 'relatively' small. The time delay is quite often waiting for landing space at the hospitals and loading / unloading.
Davidof provides a little more info and pics here:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=391750#391750
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| AxsMan wrote: |
uktrailmonster, Anyone using (the opinions voiced on) these threads as their sole guide in the helmet wearing decision, er, needs their head examining |
Maybe they're crazy, that's your opinion, but people still do make decisions based on forum threads. It's a dedicated ski forum afterall, so people make lots of ski related decisions based on reading threads here. Whether it be skis, boots, gloves, jackets or even helmets. |
er, OK , that was a joke  (the clue is in the smilie  )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AxsMan, Don't give up your day job to become a comedian then!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you wan to see mad or what , without a helmet, look no further. OK not skiing - but still awesome - and mad. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| I stand by my quote. I was dead serious. No defibs or gases available on the mountain, |
Well there are at the five Scottish Ski Areas at any rate.
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Winterhighland, not for use by the average punter skier surely? Those aids would only be for the use of piste patrol / emergency crews yes?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| saikee wrote: |
| However the those who promote the wearing of it seem to think not wearing one is daft, crazy and mad. Very few of them seem to have long experience on skiing. I find this rather disturbing. |
indeed
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I suppose I have to nail my colours to the mast. Wearing a helmet is a good thing but it does not make you invincible! On the other thread I was debating that it is more important to take care of others on the slope being considerate. I was ridiculed that I believe that I would prefer to be on a hill with someone not wearing a helmet but considerate to others than with a helmet wearer but is listening to music via an ipod, or someone that was drunk or out of it on drugs. I wonder what the more rational 's believe. Keep the debate alive its great craic!
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You know it makes sense.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| flowa wrote: |
Well, let's look at the numbers:
14,400 collisions reported last season in France
260,000 skiers transported on the 183 lifts in 3 Valleys PER HOUR
So, if all the accidents that were reported in France last season were by some bizarre twist of fate to have happened within 1 hour across JUST the 3 Valleys ski area, that would be a figure of 6% of injuries being caused by collision!
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Yes, let's look at the numbers then. How can you state what percentage of accidents (not percentage of skiers like you seem to have calculated) are due to collisions when you don't even know the total number of accidents reported? The French report actually claimed that 20% of accidents were a direct result of collisions. It also stated that the collision injuries tended to be more serious than the single accidents. Your calculation above is a load of dangley bits. |
You seem to be exibiting a dramatic lack of logic. You supplied the figure "14,400 collisions reported last season in France" in an earlier post. As I have previously stated, if one is responsible for one's own risk mitigation against other accidents - trees, pylons, etc.... then the only debate 'for' everyone wearing helmets is to defend against collisions. Isn't that why you posted the figures?
The simple case is made by my example that the number of actual collision injuries vs the actual number of skiers makes the likelyhood of you being involved in one unbelievably remote.
The emotional string to the argument for everyone to wear helmets is unbalanced when you present a figure like "14,400 collisions in France last season" without looking at how many skiers there were in France that season too.
There are times when a helmet is appropriate but IMHO not everyone should wear one all the time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| For God's sake you lot, just take your heads out from up your bums |
...I suspect it's a lot easier to put your head up your bum if you're not wearing a helmet, purely on the size side of things.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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flowa, but what about the unreported collisions? I have had loads
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, maybe lizzard meant 'take your head out of your bum and put it in a helmet'? (much more comfortable and probably ensures a more balanced skiing stance)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JDC, didn't realised Dan Osman had died (though not from rock climbing as such) when I posted that.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 25-02-08 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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AxsMan, I've yet to find a helmet that would fit my bum. (only been skiing for a decade or so, and had a helmet for about half that length of time, so I'm not a very experienced skier, I hope some don't find that too disturbing )
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Wear The Fox Hat, Does wearing a Fox hat on your head and a helmet on your bum help with the 'on the pot stance'? If so I need to get me one of each, I know where my helmet is but where's the fox hat ?
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AxsMan, ahem. Vulgar to talk about these things - but shouldn't one have bum helmets - one for each cheek? I think you'll find that that was why WTFH couldn't find the single large one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, could work, but I'm a tad concerned as to where the straps would fasten
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FAQ
