 Poster: A snowHead
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stoatsbrother, sorry, a fast-moving thread and a vitally important lavish bash to go to last night  so missed it. No, never had any involvement like that. And I'm not one of those ski expert witnesses that makes a living from blood wagon chasing. I know one guy who is kept busy more than full time writing reports for lawyers purely on ski accidents. Dry slopes, snow domes, tour ops, instructors, guides... there are a surprising number of cases affecting injured UK skiers going on against all of them at any one time which is why I know that SCGB must have to be looking hard at what their reps can/cannot do. According to the club's annual report, the club is being sued over the death in Verbier last season.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| ...According to the club's annual report, the club is being sued over the death in Verbier last season. |
Is it? I have missed that. The chairman and the chief exec both note the tragic death of a Club member who was snowboarding with the Club at Verbier. and the treasurer notes costs of £32,000 in association with this. But I can't find the bit about the Club being sued. Could be a senior thing. Can you point me at it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| davidof wrote: |
| jasonc wrote: |
I still think that some people here are missing the point. A ski club rep is there to help the ski club members. It is not there job to teach or get more cash for the club. |
Do the reps still have targets to recruit 2 members per week while in resort? I know it used to rankle a bit as some reps felt under pressure about this. It doesn't seem to be a normal approach for a pure ski club... more like the Scientologists. (note I have nothing at all against the Scientologists). |
IIRC the target no longer applies
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 24-10-07 8:50; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Do the reps still have targets to recruit 2 members per week while in resort? I know it used to rankle a bit as some reps felt under pressure about this. It doesn't seem to be a normal approach for a pure ski club... more like the Scientologists. (note I have nothing at all against the Scientologists). |
According to a rep we skiied with last year, they do have targets of recruiting new members. I think it was in the range of 2 or 3 each week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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cathy, there you go, I have had another senior moment then. I thought I had read the target no longer applied - I accept I was wrong.
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I'm thinking of starting a new thread of Ski Club Quotes, I liked this one:
"It's amazing how stupid people are!" - Ms Bettany Garner
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achilles, ah - we cross-posted! You may not be wrong.......any reps want to comment?
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| jasonc wrote: |
| Elizabeth B, Unless you say up front what you are comparing the ski club system with and do not only mention another group which we know nothing about, it is totally unfair for you to continue to compare the SCGB system of rep assistance with another unknown one. Please be open or it is not worth engaging in this further. Sorry to be so blunt but all this secrecy gets us nowhere. |
I'm not trying to compare the ski club to anopther club, merely raising an issue that I am trying to get to grips with myself, that had already been raised on this thread.
The reason I am trying to be vague, is that the group concerned have raised the issue in a private discussion, and I don't feel that it is my place to bring their specific situation into the public view. Sorry if you find this as "secrecy" and that you don't feel that you can trust my word when I describe it as a similar situation.
I will go as far as to say ot involves a club that employ no-one, but that undertake "adventure sport".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| ...According to the club's annual report, the club is being sued over the death in Verbier last season. |
Is it? I have missed that. The chairman and the chief exec both note the tragic death of a Club member who was snowboarding with the Club at Verbier. and the treasurer notes costs of £32,000 in association with this. But I can't find the bit about the Club being sued. Could be a senior thing. Can you point me at it? |
note 14 to accounts... contingent liabilities.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Where are you on the Ball of red string policy btw?
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stoatsbrother, I think I answered this earlier. I'm just stuffing some cord up my troser leg as I write. I reckon, in some circumstances, it would enable you to locate a victim faster than by electronic means. Will it ever catch on again? No. Not fashionable enough 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, must be a marketing opportunity. Grungey camo string for snowboarders. Tiny useless little lengths for bladers, and white lengths made by Spyder for snow bunnies?
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Bode Swiller, got it - thanks.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
the treasurer notes costs of £32,000
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achilles, the way I read it, £32k is the tip of the iceberg.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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stoatsbrother, white avalanche cords might be hard to spot... I'm no expert tho'. Meanwhile I'm working on Swiller's Incredible Whole Body Inflatable Bubble Avalanche System - only weights 96 kilos.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, certainly looks open-ended. The treasurer seems to think that the Club may make a large loss but weather the storm. We shall see.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| stoatsbrother, white avalanche cords might be hard to spot... I'm no expert tho'. . |
That was sort of the point...
Anyone ever tried a noise alarm - which you could trigger? or would that just get muffled?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Does the club not carry insurance for such incidents?
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Frosty the Snowman, they must do but there will be a very hefty excess and a limit to the maximum payout. Who knows, this one might have brought both ends into play. If the victim was young, had dependents and a bright earnings potential ahead of him, the payout could be mammoth... especially if negligence comes into it (but we don't know that).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty the Snowman, should do. One can but speculate at the moment. Here are my thoughts:
1. The Club did not arrange adequate insurance. Or -
2. The insurance company is trying to wriggle and there may be legal costs in getting the claim settled by it. Or -
3. The rep acted outside his/her remit - so Club not covered by insurance - but the other side are going for the Club since it has assets.
Dunno. In the dark at the moment. I guess we'll know in time. Could be something else altogether.
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achilles, I hope for your club's sake you're wrong. A combination of 1,2 and 3 would add up to commercial suicide - they are already predicting a trading loss because of this. Imagine the impact of another incident... and they do have a nasty habit of coming along when you need them least (better than a .00000000001% chance )
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Bode Swiller, I hope I am wrong, too. I just don't like the bit in Note 14 which says the contingent liability cannot be assessed, which has led me to the above thoughts. I would have expected a contingent liability to have been expressed in a relation to the maximum insurance excess - and a prudent estimate of possible arbitration costs. No estimate at all for me throws a shadow over the accounts - and if there were a share market in the Club shares, I would be selling. That said, I may have grabbed entirely the wrong end of the stick. It is a pity there is not more detail in the Note.
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achilles, I guess as a member you have the right to ask. The uncapped nature of it would worry me too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Ski Club seem to be in a no-win situation: if they don't restrict reps skiing off piste they risk big financial loss, and if they do they risk losing some of their reps (and they will tend to be the best skiers) and, more importantly, reducing the number of skiers skiing with reps. I notice that in the current Ski and Board they cheekily represent the changed rules as "to encourage more skiers to ski with our reps" which is laughable - it will clearly do the reverse.
The pleasure of introducing skiers to the thrill of skiing virgin snow well away from the piste (and repaying the club for having done the same for them) is part of what motivates many reps to do the job and was certainly a big factor in getting me to ski with reps and continue skiing with them.
If it isn't already obvious, I am an SCGB member (and went on the reps course nearly 20 years ago - but I'm not a rep).
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 24-10-07 11:22; edited 3 times in total
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Bode Swiller, could be a lively AGM.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, Almost worth a snowheads trip to it?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, could be a lively AGM. |
Ooooh I can visualise it now... you and DG like brothers in arms bombarding the chair with impossible questions. Think I'll join.
Ok, off now. Ski Show is calling.
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stoatsbrother, could be. I wasn't going to go - but there are questions:
1. What exactly can the reps do now?
2. Why cannot a maximum contingency limit be shown in the accounts?
3. Why were we not told the reps rules were changing before our subs were collected?
4. Why was the rep-rule change promulgated by a drip-fed letter - I still haven't seen mine, so I am relying on forum chat and emails?
So it could be worth making the effort - but it does cause me considerable problems to come down.
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, see page 135 in the current "Ski and Board" magazine which I assume you must have by now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowball, ah yes. Found it, thanks. Written in very lightweight font which I find a deterrent to read, I wonder if that is a co-incidence. Or maybe I am just becoming too cynical for my own good.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well the ski club quickly moved the discussion posted on their website from the general skiing area of Members Chat to the Ski Club area (used for internal matters). Looks to me like they hope it won't be noticed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, I think Joe actually asked them to do that. I started another thread over there before that one in the ski club section, but made the thread title too opaque.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, I noticed someone called Joseph McDonnell asked for it to be moved. I assumed he had something to do with the ski club but I don't know who he is. I just wrote on the thread that I didn't think it should have been moved, but I very much doubt it will be moved back.
The "The" thread however, which has only an occasional link to skiing and none to real skiing, has remained in the General Skiing area of Members Chat for months.
I just added something to your thread but didn't realize it was yours, if you see what I mean.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 24-10-07 16:14; edited 8 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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snowball, also a snowhead currently taking a looooong sabatical 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| achilles wrote: |
| snowball, ah yes. Found it, thanks. Written in very lightweight font which I find a deterrent to read, I wonder if that is a co-incidence. Or maybe I am just becoming too cynical for my own good. |
i dont think that is actually possible..
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Further to my worries on Note 14 to the accounts, a couple of accountant types have pitched into the conversation. Basically, FSR12 applies, and until "amount can be reliably estimated and it is probable that the amount is due" the liability cannot be provided for, and so Note 14 is quite correct. I may have been reading too much into it - I'm happy to wait until events unfold. My apologies if I have been unduly alarmist regarding the accounts.
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Ah. Just opened the Club's letter - which had been with me a few days. As it was in a plain white envelope it had just peen dropped in the pending tray.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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By my count there must be at least a dozen if not more ski club members posting in this thread, I wonder how many are Reps themselve. If they are willing to stand up and be counted, or maybe i should say stick there necks out, a question to them. What do they think of this change to off piste rules?
On another point, the death in verbier was posted on the ski club site a few months ago. It said that the person was a French member with a British wife that ran a chalet somewhere, according to what was written about him, he was a very experienced snowboarder and it seemed to say that the club were not being held responsible. Sorry cannot remember any more of the details. Does any one else know any more? It was a very tragic thing to happen and I feel very sorry for the family but what has brought the change that has been hinted at in a few posts that the club may now be being sued. The club needs to come clean and tell the members what has really happended. I have tried to raise this on there site and the post was deleted, Why the cover up if nobody has done anything wrong?
So that nobody thinks i am getting at the reps. I think they do a great job and I always try to ski with them when on holiday. I do not agree with the changes to what they can offer but have no other facts available to me despite asking the SCGB. Therefore I can only guess as to the reason for the change as are many others. One thing for sure, if the clubs asks the members, they will i am sure find that this change is very unpopular and WILL cost them members. If the Ski Club officials are reading this notice board. they need to post something on there site in the main forum before even more searching questions start to be asked.
I wish i could go to the Ski show and ask them again face to face about the change. I am sure that some of the Executive will be at the show, they should be I would have thought. Might I suggest that any members going to the show this week do just that and ask them why this change has been made. If you do please share the response with us.
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| jasonc wrote: |
| On another point, the death in verbier was posted on the ski club site a few months ago. It said that the person was a French member with a British wife that ran a chalet somewhere, according to what was written about him, he was a very experienced snowboarder and it seemed to say that the club were not being held responsible. Sorry cannot remember any more of the details. Does any one else know any more? It was a very tragic thing to happen |
Thanks for reminding us. I remember now. I remember the thread on the SCGB forums at the time. I did not know the family ran a chalet or even that he was skiing with a rep. Very sad.
If you can get to the ski show can you not get to Wimbledon in November ?
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FAQ
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