Converting a van to a camper to ski (and avoid covid)

A snowHead

There are an awful lot of vans out there asking for too much based on a nice fit out of an old or high mileage van with dubious MOT advisories- a bit like every tradesman in the country has converted his knackered old van to cash in. And as for the price of actual motorhomes -seems you can ask the earth for anything post 2000. I know some of those may have been cherished but there seems to be no correlation with traditional motor vehicle depreciation.

A snowHead

@Layne, I fall very much in to the covid crew on campervans, having bought ours November 2020, but it was something we'd been talking about pre covid. I got rid of my car last summer and just used the girlfriends up until November, then the van came up for sale, and as we had rescued a dog, it made sense to just get the van then, albeit it probably cost a lot more than pre covid. I still think for what we got it was a good price, on autotrader currently, the closest equivalent to our van is on at £16k, ours though had windows in the back and a row of seats, where as that van doesn't, I paid £14.7k.

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@swskier, I wouldn't say everything is massively overpriced and I am guessing even with Covid November 2020 would have been a slower time for people buying and selling. For us it was more not needing to or wanting to rush halfway across the country feeling almost compelled to buy and/or compromising too much on spec. We know a lot more about what we want now but kitchen renovation is a higher priority and our usage is more related to kids growing up, semi-retirement a couple of years down the line.

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OH has just done this feature on what it's like to spend seasons in a motor-home in a ski resort.

Our friends have done a fair few seasons and Steve is a truly massive reference book of information and experience.

https://stylealtitude.com/motorhome-campervan-ski-resorts-guide.html

If you have any questions I'll bounce them off him over a beer.

I only get remotely envious when they up-sticks to avoid the French Half term hordes.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Weathercam, Nice little article and your friends use their van very much as we do, in fact we would never have started snowboarding or skiing if we hadn't bought the motorhome. We've owned it for 13 years now and would get 85% of the purchase price if we sold it today, trouble is the 10 month waiting list for the new one and the hugely increased price.

For anyone contemplating a motorhome an A class van isn't absolutely essential for ski trips, many European built C class vans are more than adequate but UK vans aren't.

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@BoardieK, interested in your perspective. I know supply and demand but would your vehicle honestly be worth the price you could get or would it be a ticking bomb of things that are on the verge of wearing out/ leaking/ corroding? (Appreciate you may have invested significantly in ongoing upkeep). As i said there appears no correlation with normal principles of depreciation at the moment with many bragging of getting back what they paid for vans etc.

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@Dave of the Marmottes, 70,000 miles. I had to spend a week under it last year undo the rust on the Alko axle (8mm thick), the Fiat body and Alko chassis are both galvanised. Body is grp and comes up like new, there is minor damage on the rear bumper, interior is almost unmarked. All appliances work perfectly and I've replaced a few skylights but not because of any water ingress.
The engine bay shows many winter's of driving on salty roads and there are a few brackets need replacing plus a bit of rust on the seams around the front I've gone through several brake discs as it sits unused in misty wet Cornish Spring when we return but all are currently perfect.
Two years ago it was probably worth 70% of what we paid and might well be again by this time next year. The price of an equivalent new van has doubled in 13 years: and there are NO discounts on new ones Sad

The glow plugs don't all work but garages don't seem interested, nevertheless it's only been a bit of a problem once in the last 2 winter's.

After all it is free

@BoardieK, "I've gone through several brake discs as it sits unused in misty wet Cornish Spring when we return but all are currently perfect."

Some industrial pallet/shrink wrap to cover the front wheels is quite rudimentary but effective when standing for a while.

Just parked on the street for us here when they fling salt and grit it's terrible for the disc even over a period of 2 to 3 days, the above is quick and cheap but stops it.

@Dave of the Marmottes, @BoardieK, when I see how much time my mate works / maintains his "truck" it's akin to having a boat, where apart from being a skipper and all that entails, you have to be an engineer as well. Otherwise, you're going to be spending a lot of cash.

Only a few days ago he was having to clean all his tanks out, as in the summer heat, there's the fear of nasties (legionnaire disease) from the water in them etc

He says modern vans don't enable you to get to all the parts (pipes etc) that have a tendency to go wrong.

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@SnoodlesMcFlude, think in this thread the main gist is about using a van to ski, and I for one do not see too many VW camper-vans parked up in the depths of winter doing the whole season etc

The vans you do see are substantial, plumbing, heating, generators, solar panels, insulation etc all stuff that can and does go wrong.

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Which is why I prefer the modular approach to a camper van. You just put things in the back of the van yourself, and remove/replace them when they stop working.

Then you need to focus on the mechanics of a van, the brakes, the engine, rust.

The idea of spending £100,000 on a camping van and then driving it up narrow, windy, icy roads and parking it permanently in 3 feet of snow and ice and salt, is madness. (a bit like buying beer in ski resorts)

Get a mechanically sound small manoeuvrable van for £5,000 with good brakes and no rust. Put a bed in it. Insulate it. Get a heater, but not a permanent installation. A pee bucket. No need for a fridge/cooker/shower etc. You could spend another £5,000 on the van and have some great accessories which you remove and put in your next van.

Bear in mind a season let for a 1 bed apartment in a ski resort can cost upwards of £10,000. (before utility bills)

You know it makes sense.

@Bigtipper[/b], I'll put the "bucket" suggestion to my wife but I suspect she will stick with forking out the extra for the en-suite:

It's not just about ski trips, we spend the autumn touring in it and retirement isn't too far away.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@BoardieK[/b], your picture does not make me envious.

I expect mine will do nothing for you either!

A snowHead

@BoardieK, Yeah that's very nice but I assume it comes with a price tag of around £120k+. That seems closer to the money you could acquire a small appartment for in reasonable distance of slopes in some places (or at least fund a decent chunk of mortgage) plus a bit for a more modest van for the autumn travels. I guess that logic doesn't hold in any way for e.g CH and futher that if depreciation is genuinely minimal it is superior to property in many respects like security while absent/taxes/communal costs.

The depreciation lite economics I find really confusing at the moment. Which means I'm finding it hard to assess upside v risk even on a more modest van.

A snowHead

@Dave of the Marmottes, assume second hand van prices are also reflecting a huge upturn in 2nd hand car prices, so probably not a good time to buy?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/used-car-prices-continue-surge-131424186.html

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https://www.autotrader.co.uk/van-details/202106274306086 - it's not cheap, but it is insulated, ready to roll, low mileage, high spec, but needs a table and maybe a conversion from the lounge space into a bed area unless you like single beds and a sleeping bag. Probably low mileage because bands haven't toured much lately wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

"If" life goes back to normal then next year could see a lot of nearly new motorhomes on the market at good prices, but I think things would have to start getting better pretty soon. We bought our current van 1 year old with 1,000 miles on the clock with a 20% saving from what the first owner paid, that could be realistic again next year.

An apartment wouldn't suit us, we enjoy touring around too much and have been doing it for long enough now to know what we like. I wish I still had the 1964 VW Devon conversion I had in the late '70s!

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@ousekjarr, the seating area already has a table and I suspect converts to a double bed

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@BoardieK, No criticism - if that's what your lifestyle looks like in pisteside/lakeside/mountain col locations you're doing better than most shoebox appts.

After all it is free

@ousekjarr, Looks a very smart van - but £50k for a six year old van seems way over the top to me.

@RobinS, I'm not in the market for one, but with 5K miles on the clock, that level of quality, insulated and with a loo and shower, I suspect that it will sell for very near that asking price. Yes, you could buy a newer Sprinter on the second hand market for about £15K + VAT, but they'll all have done over 100K and be dented and/or rusting, and then you'd have to spend about £25K to even come close to matching the basic spec here, plus the time to do it.

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I wouldn't touch anything like that. It says it has central heating but all I can see is a cheap domestic water heater, I've no doubt that plumbing will freeze up in winter and there probably isn't much insulation plus look at the size of those single glazed windows!
Ps. And the rear axle looks way overloaded

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@BoardieK, Yeah - I wasn't interested - other than to see where bids went - too long/ not winterised enough for me but a 2.5 season camper for a family maybe? No idea about the axle but you see that's the value of your experience.

@ousekjarr, it’s around 5k and 10k less than a new custom conversion of that spec. The windows are double glazed but the cab of course isn’t. Insulation will be minimal and probably without vapour barriers; essential to stop your van rotting due to condensation when living and cooking in very cold weather. My dot conversion has 50mm insulation in floor and ceiling and 75mm in the walls plus insulated front bulkhead

You know it makes sense.

@Dave of the Marmottes, ime depreciation depends on:
The usual… age, mileage, condition.

But also:
Van make & conversion company.

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again, buy a VW. They hold their value far far far better than any other.

Next look at the conversion. I have only owned two. Both Autosleeper. They are sought after, and when combined with VW, they are very very sought after.

Bought our first, a camper van, at 17yo and just about 90k on the clock. Sold it 4yrs later and over 100k on the clock for 33% more than we bought it for. Bought our second again at 17yo and 80oddk on the clock. It is also worth more than that now (another 4yrs later).

We decided on the camper to do nothing to it. To keep it as original as possible. Original is what a future buyer wants. Our present one we have just reupholstered and are going to keep on personalising it. We aim to keep it til it dies coz it is the perfect MoHo for us.

Ps. That is a lovely looking MoHo @BoardieK, plenty of daylight ingress, which can be limited in a lot of the newer models.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@BoardieK, that looks lovely, forgive me if you’ve already answered but what is it?? We keep flip flopping from getting a camper van to just doing Airbnb/renting a different place each season/doing B&B in Yorkshire as part of a retirement plan in a few years time!

A snowHead

@kitenski, Hymer Masterline 790 is the one we are about to order, same layout as our current Rapido but 50cm longer. I've never been particularly drawn to Hymers but this new range does it for us both and the technical aspects of the chassis are superb. Sprinter vans also get the newish Mercedes OM654 engine shortly.

I had a look at ebay this evening, I've never seen such a high proportion of camper vans to motorhomes in the 25 to 40k range, looks like you have to spend over £35000 to get a decent winterised motorhome under 10 years old but there were several with modest mileages (unlike the van conversions).

A snowHead

Very interesting thread, I want to try it (one day). I have done hours of research since reading this and can see that camping ski holidays are popular in a lot of European resorts, and RV camping popular in many North American resorts. My guess is that everybody who reads this would consider it for a while.

I have since looked at nearly every van and camper available currently. I would prefer a coachbuilt motorhome, but in lower budgets of up to and around £4,000 I am unsure whether a 1990's example would make it to the alps (and back). Probably a self built camper conversion of a much more recent van would stand more of a chance. Maybe a converted ex ambulance (maybe newer with sky high miles) might make it (most of them are Automatic). I did so much research I found out that it is possible to sleep in a Jeep Commander as both the back and the middle seats fold down leaving space to sleep in or on, but people only really do that for the odd night, not a skiing trip.

Maybe even towing a real caravan with a better car might be an option, but well insulated caravans might cost as much as an average example standard van's.
Up to around £4,000 might get a fairly decent fairly recent Long Wheelbase High Top van (2013 - 2014) that has been round the clock at least once, maybe twice, maybe three times.
If I do a trip like this over the next three years, I will post something on here. Ski Camping in a 200,000 mile Long Wheelbase High Top van. Maybe I will become a ski camper, who know's?

Definitely worth some research, but it might not be your thing. But if it is going to keep someone skiing for longer, and they personally enjoy it, good for them and good for you.
I think buying a van like that for this reason will make someone ski for longer, as it would have been one of it's main purposes, and to not make use of what it offers would be a waste.

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A few years ago some "old geezer" well into his 80s spent a January night next to us in the back of his estate car at Passo Falzarego. I was up for the first lift, he was already up there!
I guess it was a one night trip but I suspect he did it frequently.

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I’ve nearly finished diy conversion of winterised campervan and starting to think of forthcoming ski season. Any recent tips of best places to go or book in advance for parking? Minimum requirements water and waste disposal but electric and separate showers ( our van has one) would be good

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Here's some starters:

http://www.haute-savoie-tourisme.org/services/pratiques/aires-stationnement
https://www.campercontact.com/en/france/haute-savoie

and a previous thread: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=3172896&highlight=motorhome+aire#3172896

I've only ever booked in advance for new year, just rock up somewhere the rest of the time.

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I've been examining the power use of the fridges and freezers with a view to setting up a stand alone battery power solar kit. (which could be transferred to a van for winter use when the sun is low in Scotland and produces low power with an average solar panel tilt)

Tried to buy something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164755064577

to verify my calculations from the electric meter. Unfortunately, the order was cancelled by the seller and money returned before it was due to arrive in the post.

Anyway, I calculated that the power use of an ancient fridge (over 30 years old) was about 100w compared to 98w power input rating. Now this fridge should use half of this per hour, but I had turned the fridge off for so long that the fridge was 20C when I turned it back on so it took a while to get to a temperature which would allow it to switch off.

The peak power of such a fridge is said to be about 5x-7x this input power, which means to run the fridge I need an ac invertor which has a peak wattage rating of at least 700w. So probably better with 1000w or 1500w peak invertor power (the upshot is none of my existing invertors would be useful)

Looking online for a new fridge it says an A+ rated fridge with ac power uses 168kwh per annum or about 0.5kwh per day on average. (depending on conditions)

This is about 0.5 kwh less than my existing fridge (before precise calculations using a usage meter as linked).

A saving of less than 10p per day on even the most expensive electricity grid prices. At best a saving on average of £40 per year, for the cost of a new fridge at £160. Taking 4 years to recover the outlay.

An adequate solar system to power the old fridge would require at least 1kwh per day, with overnight battery storage required for about 0.5-1kwh. The new fridge would require less power and so would easily use the same system.

Such a system might cost upwards of £500 minimum. (depending mainly on whether you use lifepo4 batteries or not which are very expensive but last longer)

It could take up to 20 years to recoup this outlay, during which you would probably need to replace at least the batteries and probably the whole system.

I cannot justify it on cost, but it is interesting to note that when the summer heat is strongest fridges have to work harder (depending on location). This is when you would get the most power from a solar panel system.

Not worth it yet, especially if you do not do it yourself when the costs of labour and damages to a roof are increased.

My reading has also given me an extra bit of knowledge that invertors waste 10% of the power consumed by heat dissipation and fans. It is therefore better to use a dc fridge. Dc fridges online appear to be more expensive and use more power than equivalent ac fridges. Meaning that it is not worth doing this, better getting an efficient cheap ac fridge and accepting the loss of power from an ac invertor.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Some may have seen a thread I set up about a summer road trip we were planning:

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=158656&highlight=

Mainly visiting Austria and Germany.

Currently the van is set up with a fixed bed across the back that we sleep sideways in, which isn't particularly comfortable as it's not quite long enough.

It also means that we have no space to just sit in the van, if the weather was bad for example, except in the front seats.

It's a very basic set up:

Having done our 1.5 weeks in Scotland last summer i've definitely come to the conclusion that we can't sleep sideways, and we need to be able to sit inside the van, particularly if it's bad weather etc, as we do have the awning, but, sometimes we might just pull up somewhere and want to chill in the van.

So plan is now to re-configure the van in to a U shape with the sofa area extending right down to behind the driver's seat, but on the sliding door side, it'll stop in line with the door, which is where the bed currently finishes.

I'll then create some form of extension by the door so that the bed becomes long enough to sleep from the back doors towards the front.

The sofa extending right down to the driver's seat also means that we can sit with the side door open, and look out to a nice view hopefully.

Building it this way will also mean we have more storage than currently as i'll create storage underneath the entire sofa structure.

Hoping that I can re-use most of the frame I currently have for the bed, and make it a bit lower as currently it's too high to sit on the edge of the bed.

@Harvamnia,

Hi i came across an old post about winter skiing in a crafter motorvan . Your layout sounded different to the norms. Can you describe the layout? Thx

Help!!

Converting a van to a camper to ski (and avoid covid)

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