 Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN, ok think i get that. annoying that it'll be a few months before trying it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, It sounds kind of fun. I am so impatient!!! I will confess it doesn't sound too tricky...  results to be seen...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, David Murdoch, skimottaret, FFS! . . . get a snowboard and do it properly  . . . this is HUGE fun on a snowboard, easier toe-side than heel when the bones of your pelvis are frequently a substitute for an edge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Masque wrote: |
| GrahamN, David Murdoch, skimottaret, FFS! . . . get a snowboard and do it properly :roll |
I suspect this is considerably harder on skis (twice as many edges to catch) which might explain why this is a drill rather than fun! Did this on a course last season - scared the crap out of me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The Chopper Drill - The skier stands facing across the fall line and balances on the uphill edges of both skis. The skier makes a lateral jump down the hill and lands cleanly on the same edges. Progression is to do 3 jumps, then without poles, then do jumping with and landing on one leg and alternate as you go down the hill. Helps develop edge control and a good stacked position.
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Masque, I suppose that's true if being dumped on your ass is included in your definition of fun 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Up and Over Drill - The skier traverses across the slope and every few metres the skier extends the uphill leg and rides purely on the little toe edge of the uphill ski. the leg should be fully extended. On the 3rd extension allow the ski to roll from the little toe edge onto the new turning edge, complete the turn on two skis. Develops a stacked position at the top of the turn.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, GrahamN explains it more precisely but coming out of a left hander on left edges you then start your transition and get the skis flat to the piste, as they are flat you rapidly twistso that toes are pointing downhill.
I have updated the OP and if anyone wants to have a go at defining terms that are TBD please have a go...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| peura wrote: |
| I agree too, very useful. I think "whiteout" and "flat light" should also be defined, preferable qualitatively for the former, since they're often misused. |
peura, good ideas, have a go at some definitions |
 I'll admit that part of the reason for my question is that I don't know the answer. What I was looking for was a definition similar to that for (aviation/marine) fog which is when the visibility is reduced to less than 1km. So far I've not found one but the closest I've got is
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| White-out' is the term used often to describe any condition during snowfall that severely restricts visibility. In the Glossary of Weather and Climate published by the American Meteorological Society, a whiteout is defined as "an atmospheric optical phenomenon of the polar regions in which the observer appears to be engulfed in a uniformly white glow as a result of a lack of contrast between an overcast sky and an unbroken snow cover. Neither shadows, horizon, nor clouds are discernable; sense of depth and orientation is lost; dark objects in the field of view appear to "float" at an indeterminable distance." |
from here.
Having said I'm not completely sure of the definition, I've seen a lot of posts, mostly not on here, where people are posting about whiteout conditions that are much less severe than what I would consider a whiteout.
Flat light is probably harder to define but I'm beginning to suspect that most of my skiing has been done in such conditions  , since it has nearly always been overcast and in clear, Arctic air.
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WHITE OUT - A term that describes any condition during snowfall that severely restricts visibility. An atmospheric optical phenomenon in which the observer appears to be engulfed in a uniformly white glow as a result of a lack of contrast between an overcast sky and an unbroken snow cover. Neither shadows, horizon, nor clouds are discernable; sense of depth and orientation is lost; dark objects in the field of view appear to "float" at an indeterminable distance.
FLAT LIGHT - Low visibility or contrast which makes changes in snow conditions and terrain hard to discern.
Any good?
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't think it actually needs to be snowing to be a whiteout does it? It's like being insire a ping pong ball, but you can have this sensation with no snowfall.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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beanie1, IMO, I agree, thick fog or cloud can produce the same effect.
And to pick nits I think flat light is only to do with low contrast - as often you can have heavy snow (i.e. poor visibility) but plenty of contrast.
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Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, David Murdoch, off you go... have a go at rewording... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FLAT LIGHT - visibility conditions where viewed objects are not obscured or hazed but their shape or perspective is distorted in relation to background, may occur in different ways:
1) The light source is very diffuse, such as from an overcast sky. Because the light rays do not come from one easily defined source, shadows are distorted and significantly reduced from the accustomed ones and the contrast is very low.
(Blue lens conditions)
2) The light source is in an unusual position in the sky (e.g. on the horizon at sunset or from low-mounted lamps during night skiing). Shadows and glints are very prominent, making for high contrast but distorted perception shapes. (yellow, amber, persimmon, pink lens conditions)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, David Murdoch, beat to the line by comprex, (well done) i like the blue/pink lens ratings
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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WHITE OUT - An atmospheric optical phenomenon that severely restricts visibility in which the observer appears to be engulfed in a uniformly white glow as a result of a lack of contrast between a sky obscured by snow, fog or cloud and unbroken snow cover. Neither shadows, horizon, nor clouds are discernable; sense of depth and orientation is lost; dark objects in the field of view appear to "float" at an indeterminable distance.
any better?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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WHITE OUT - When you can't see a whole lot.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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White out- When all you can see is white
Flat light - when you can't see any edges to anything
In flat light you can see the tree but not where the groomer ends and the tree well begins. In a white out you can't see the tree.
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skimottaret, are you editing the wiki still?
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Interesting discussion here. Although I posted it I'm not entirely sure about the NOAA definition given for a whiteout. Specifically this part dark objects in the field of view appear to "float" at an indeterminable distance. Doesn't that sound a lot more like what we're calling flat light?
comprex, good explanations but I'm becoming sure I've skied in condition 1) and found my "orange/red/pink ish" lens very helpful.
Another "interesting" weather condition was when the wind was blowing lots of snow around but it all stayed low down (probably creating a whiteout below knee level). Although I could see objects in the distance I couldn't see the snow at any distance at all. Does anyone know of a (printable  ) definition of this?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| peura wrote: |
comprex, good explanations but I'm becoming sure I've skied in condition 1) and found my "orange/red/pink ish" lens very helpful. |
Focused vision does well with those in almost all conditions; blue is very high gain in the eye (gain = contrast) but biased outside the direct gaze spot and so becomes more valuable at speed, and at all speeds when one isn't both staring directly at the object and focusing on the object.
If you try staring at Christmas lights with the naked eye, blue/violet are very bright but fuzzy if you look right at them - they become sharper if you just don't quite look at them.
The distinction between whiteout and flat light is two fold:
White out means there is material absorbing reflected light from the object
White out means there is something adding light that never hit the object into the viewing path. This is light from the sky, refracted by atmosphere and water in it, reflected from particles in between viewer and object. The term often used is "sky light".
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 2-07-08 17:00; edited 1 time in total
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| comprex wrote: |
| skimottaret, are you editing the wiki still? |
Nope, I think someone else went to the trouble of putting a version of the glosssary on the WIKI but for me it isnt worth the effort as it hardly gets looked at.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, good work, but it needs to be linked to the main glossary page, with individual links to terms: currently one has to go to the catalog of terms and go under Learning, with everything dropped into one's lap en masse.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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WHITE PASS TURN :
skimottaret, check out this definition I provided in the last post on page one of this thread. Apparently it was missed.
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| WEIGHTED RELEASE - Formerly called "The White Pass Lean". A transition made famous by American ski racer Steve Mahre in the early 1980's. The old outside (downhill) leg carries all the skiers weight through the entire transition, and the new turn is initiated by simply rolling that ski over onto it's downhill edge and starting the new turn on that same ski. Weight is transferred to the other (new outside) ski somewhere around the apex of the new turn. |
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comprex, i agree but cant be bothered to edit more than this thread. Just thought of another...
CHATTER - When the edges of the skis rapidly engage and release from the surface during a turn. Typically is the result of applying too much pressure or too much edge angle for the surface you are skiing on.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 2-07-08 17:24; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, this is turning into an excellent resource.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FastMan, I had put your definition in under weighted release, and have just added a see also for white pass turn....
It has come on well with a little and often approach. I am intrigued that we havent even identified all the terms in yet... white out for instance was an excellent addition.
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Poster: A snowHead
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GRAUPEL - aka snow pellets refers to precipitation that forms when supercooled droplets of water condense on a snowflake, forming a 2–5 mm ball of rime ice. Graupel is both denser than ordinary snow and granular. The combination of weight and low viscosity makes fresh layers of graupel unstable on slopes, and layers of 20-30 cm present a high risk of dangerous slab avalanches. In addition, thinner layers of graupel falling at low temperatures can act as ball bearings below subsequent falls of more naturally stable snow, rendering them also liable to avalanche. Graupel tends to compact and stabilise approximately one or two days after falling, depending on the the temperature and the properties of the graupel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| CHATTER - When the edges of the skis rapidly engage and release from the surface during a turn. Typically is the result of applying too much pressure or too much edge angle for the surface you are skiing on. |
That's a good one, but do you get chatter from too much edge angle? I frequently get chatter from too much pressure, especially on icy pistes, but I don't think I've ever managed to get too much edge angle to break the ski's grip
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, I will have to defer to an expert for that one. I think when i chatter it is cause i am trying too hard. either over pressuring or over edging. I could be wrong... but I think if you dont have enough edge angle you will skid, just enough edge you will carve and too much you will break lose and chatter unless you reduce pressure.
ps fancy a go at defining what a BASI UK Senior instructor is
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CRAMPONS - aka couteux and harscheisen. Crampons are fitted to the underside of ski touring bindings and provide the skier with stability when crossing icy or rocky terrain.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| ps fancy a go at defining what a BASI UK Senior instructor is |
Don't tempt me!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
FastMan, I had put your definition in under weighted release, and have just added a see also for white pass turn....
It has come on well with a little and often approach. I am intrigued that we havent even identified all the terms in yet... white out for instance was an excellent addition. |
Ah, yes,,, sorry. I went to the end of the list and didn't see weighted release listed. I unknowingly was in the drill section.
THOUSAND STEPS:
Executing a turn by rapidly linking a series of diverging skating steps.
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Chatter is a tricky definition, as it can result from various things. Here's an attempt. Use, modify, add to, or discard as you choose.
CHATTER:
When attempting to carve on very hard snow or ice, the skis repeatedly lose and reattempt to grip the snow in a rapid pulsating fashion. The result being they skip sideways across the snow. Can have various causes, to include: engaging the skis to harshly at the start of the turn, trying to jam the edge in the snow/ice after a ski has already started to slide, and the presence of bit of steering in the attempted carve.
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FastMan, good definition of chatter. Is it possible to get chattering skis from too much edge angle?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, I was under the impression that a yellow/orange lens was good in flat/hazy light due to the difference in wavelengths between absorbed and reflected light off ice? so a blue lens seems unhelpful to me?
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FastMan, also chatter from a very uneven surface?
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FAQ
i think the reason it is called "cloudburst" is that the first time you try it you crash so hard and everything you have on comes flying off at all angles 
