 Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
Yesterday two of us set out for a day's skiing. 200km round trip. 40km on mountain road. 15 liters of petrol at 2 euros per litre: 30 euros
Lift passes for 2: 30 euros - oh yes, we were not in a big ski resort, somewhere like Courchevel would have cost us closer to 120 euros.
Tolls: 20 euros
80 euros in total
Economist Jean-Marc Jancovici “tourism will suffer, not from a lack of snow but from a general contraction in purchasing power linked to the cost of oil”.
With Petrol over 1.90 even in French supermarkets I wonder whether we are reaching the point where skiing, or generally travelling except maybe a summer holiday, is getting too expensive. |
Just read this OP out to Mr. O. His input is that that works out to about £70. He went to book bowling for the 4 of us over the weekend. Two games. £60. And that's just the bowling. Not our fuel to do the 40 mile round trip, drinks, snacks, inevitable £10 each child splurged on the arcades afterwards. Bowling can easily be £100 for an hour and half entertainment these days. We'd rather have your day of skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Life is about budgeting and prioritising our budgets. Whether that be buying new clothes every trip, renting 28 places for 15 of you, prioritising a certain area, or a minimum proximity to the slopes, or a specific area, or a gastronomic extravaganza, or affording affording other holidays too, or having a nice house, or having a nice car. (Think I’m sounding a bit Talking Heads ish now, so I’ll stop)
It’s your budget. Prioritise what you want. Very, very few of us never need to cut our cloth.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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just had a look at the flights from Bristol to Geneva one way at the end of march with easyjet, sat departures are march 18...£65 march 25....£67 April 1....£421, now that is to expensive for me, luckilly 1"m a bit more flexible this year and can choose a cheaper midweek flight.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dode wrote: |
Life is about budgeting and prioritising our budgets. Whether that be buying new clothes every trip, renting 28 places for 15 of you, prioritising a certain area, or a minimum proximity to the slopes, or a specific area, or a gastronomic extravaganza, or affording other holidays too, or having a nice house, or having a nice car. (Think I’m sounding a bit Talking Heads ish now, so I’ll stop)
It’s your budget. Prioritise what you want. Very, very few of us never need to cut our cloth. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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#you’d think editing would get easier with time
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@dode,
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renting 28 places for 15 of you,
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to be fair, I think it's 'only' 26 
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Yes, 26 places but the bigger gite is absolute maximum 14, and that requires the "sleeping together in one bed" of people who would prefer not do that with someone with whom they don't have that kind of intimate relationship!! Including me. The accommodation is in the right place, easy piste access, and good cooking and eating facilities and £30 a night per head, so pretty good value compared even to a basic hotel. I am paying most costs for two of my kids and their families and my well-off son is paying for the smaller gite, where I will have my own bedroom and bathroom. As befits my advanced years and tendency to flatulence.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| @oldschool72, Is a car rental not much cheaper for your transfer |
Car rental was approximately the same price when I looked. That's jumped hugely, too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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7 pages into the topic, it may be worth repeating the lessons from the last couple of seasons re DIY holidays (as opposed to Tour Operators):
1. Candidate list of destinations: Always include at least one with easy access via public transport.
2. Booking: Don't book anything until you've checked the price of all the constituents parts.
3. Transport Type: Price-up both self-drive and flying, just in case the alternative is cheaper.
If you're flying into GVA then there are lots of places where you can hop on the train and get there, or at least near enough for a taxi/bus on the final leg. But there are also a lot of places which aren't accessible and where your only option is an expensive transfer or car rental.
If your group is arriving on different flights/routes, one upside of the public transport option is earlier arrivals can just press on and don't have to wait for anyone who is delayed.
It's tempting to just book a flight or a destination as the starting-point and leave the rest 'till later. But Forum feedback reflects this has become a much higher-risk strategy compared to checking transfers, accommodation, equipment rental and lesson etc costs at the same time.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 1-02-23 12:07; edited 8 times in total
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If transfer prices have sky rocketed the answer would be to fly/find resorts that have a much shorter one, would it not?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 1-02-23 10:52; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Layne wrote: |
| If transfer prices have sky rocketed the answer would fly/find resorts that have a much shorter one, would it not? |
I have discovered the train transfer to Saint Gervias, as long as you land pre 15.00 you can get the train for £18.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I will be experimenting with train transfer from MUC to SkiWelt, hope it goes well. What I did notice is that flights back from MUC were barely 300 euros for the 9am flight, or 400+ euros for the mid-afternoon flight which I'll need due to the train transfer beforehand!
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| Orange200 wrote: |
| I will be experimenting with train transfer from MUC to SkiWelt, hope it goes well. What I did notice is that flights back from MUC were barely 300 euros for the 9am flight, or 400+ euros for the mid-afternoon flight which I'll need due to the train transfer beforehand! |
How about a late day transfer with a hotel near the airport? It may cost less than 100 euros?
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You know it makes sense.
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@oldschool72, Keep looking at car rental prices, they fluctuate quite a lot. Avis was looking for over 2k for a 9 seater for a week, I kept checking and booked it when it came back down to the same price as last year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I have discovered the train transfer to Saint Gervias, as long as you land pre 15.00 you can get the train for £18. |
Does the train cost more after 1500?
Or do you mean that is the latest for getting a transfer up to town from Le Fayet? (Last navette 1830, last service bus 1930).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| j b wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I have discovered the train transfer to Saint Gervias, as long as you land pre 15.00 you can get the train for £18. |
Does the train cost more after 1500?
Or do you mean that is the latest for getting a transfer up to town from Le Fayet? (Last navette 1830, last service bus 1930). |
Yes, logistics of getting from station to village.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Asahi is €8 a pint in Les Gets. I’m nursing one right now
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Timmycb5, time to switch to wine! €3.50 for a glass of decent house white in St Jean d'Aulps last week 
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We’re just back from Austria and thought that food and drink prices have definitely rocketed this year.
The ski pass and accommodation seem around the same price as usual and we’ve kept costs down by booking everything ourselves as opposed to a travel agent.
However, the price for our daughters ski school and also eating on the mountain definitely made me wince…
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Nervous Nellie, Fellow cat. Just back from St.Anton .Paid €6.50 for small beer in most place's and €10 for large Fanta also in most restaurants and bars. Food definitely gone up in the mountain huts. Austria probably the same as French prices now.
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@Chick, yup! It feels like most on-mountain food & drink prices up by €1-€2 in the Arlberg. If you are staying for a week, then the total difference is probably not that much in the scheme of things, but for a long stay, it does add up.
One of the more irritating prices is €4.10 for a cup of hot water and a supermarket-quality teabag!
I have noticed more people eating soup from a thermos or their own sandwiches in the mountain restaurants. Have not seen the staff pull up anybody.
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| Chick wrote: |
| @Nervous Nellie, Fellow cat. Just back from St.Anton .Paid €6.50 for small beer in most place's and €10 for large Fanta also in most restaurants and bars. Food definitely gone up in the mountain huts. Austria probably the same as French prices now. |
Blimey! Makes Switzerland look cheap in comparison 
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| Chick wrote: |
| @Nervous Nellie, Fellow cat. Just back from St.Anton .Paid €6.50 for small beer in most place's and €10 for large Fanta also in most restaurants and bars. Food definitely gone up in the mountain huts. Austria probably the same as French prices now. |
Don't think I paid over 6 euros in Saalbach for a large beer anywhere.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This year:
25 March 2023 for a week
Ski Train London to Bourg in Premium Class
Lift Pass for Les Arcs
Accomodation 3 min walk from main lift
20 min Bus transfer
Kit locker for arrival day
Breakfast on arrival day
£795pp
Not that pricey really. We will eat out 6 nights out of 7 which will add to it substantially but that's our choice as we don't like washing up on holiday.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
@Chick, yup! It feels like most on-mountain food & drink prices up by €1-€2 in the Arlberg. If you are staying for a week, then the total difference is probably not that much in the scheme of things, but for a long stay, it does add up.
One of the more irritating prices is €4.10 for a cup of hot water and a supermarket-quality teabag!
I have noticed more people eating soup from a thermos or their own sandwiches in the mountain restaurants. Have not seen the staff pull up anybody. |
I'm surprised the restaurants don't kick people like that out. it's not right, the mountain restaurants have a business to run, and shouldn't allow people to occupy seats that are bringing their own food and drink. You wouldn't go down the local pub and open up some cans of beer that you bought in a supermarket so why would you do it in a restaurant ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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“ Don't think I paid over 6 euros in Saalbach for a large beer anywhere.”
@Gored, that sounds normal, in fact even 5 euros wouldn’t surprise me. It’s well-known that St Anton and Ischgl have higher prices.
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| Quote: |
You wouldn't go down the local pub and open up some cans of beer that you bought in a supermarket so why would you do it in a restaurant ?
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I have seen people with hidden bottles of gin topping up in Englsh pubs and sneaking in a bottle of supermarket wine to a restaurant. I understand that with the wine, when asked to pay £20 for a bottle that could be bought in Aldi for £4 and probably was by the restaurant themselves.
Years ago we went with a party into a piano bar in Saalbach (it was over 30 years ago). Beer was eye watering expensive, so most of us only bought small beers while some chose not to buy any at all. The owner asked us all to leave, not being happy with how much we purchased. We were not even allowed to finish our beers. We had to finish them outside. Things must have changed in Austria in the meen time when you are now allowed to bring your own food and drink into restaurants. Are these the large caferteria type places by any chance?
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You know it makes sense.
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@johnE, yes, I am talking about the large mountain restaurants at Galzig, Gampen, and Rendl. It is not permitted but people still do it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
You wouldn't go down the local pub and open up some cans of beer that you bought in a supermarket so why would you do it in a restaurant ?
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I have seen people with hidden bottles of gin topping up in Englsh pubs and sneaking in a bottle of supermarket wine to a restaurant. I understand that with the wine, when asked to pay £20 for a bottle that could be bought in Aldi for £4 and probably was by the restaurant themselves.
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The restaurants have overheads, they may have only paid £4 for the wine but they have business rates, heating and energy costs, storage space for the wine, wages for the staff who buy it, store it, serve it, then wash up the glasses.
I don't have any connection with the hospitality industry but even I can see there are many costs in addition to what the product costs. It's the same with food too, you could buy a steak a lot cheaper in your local butchers than in a restaurant but the restaurant has other overheads.
If people want to try to cheat their local pub out of business, then they will probably find it closes down before long because it's losing money.
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Years ago we went with a party into a piano bar in Saalbach (it was over 30 years ago). Beer was eye watering expensive, so most of us only bought small beers while some chose not to buy any at all. The owner asked us all to leave, not being happy with how much we purchased. We were not even allowed to finish our beers. We had to finish them outside. Things must have changed in Austria in the meen time when you are now allowed to bring your own food and drink into restaurants. Are these the large caferteria type places by any chance? |
It seems a bit harsh to make the people who had bought beer (even small ones) leave but totally understand why they would not want people who had bought nothing occupying seats. In my opinion that's only really acceptable when parents are with small children who don't want/like the food on offer and the parents are buying full meals.
There was a well known apres-ski spot in St Anton called the underground which was open until the owner retired at the end of last year. She had a reputation for no-nonsense and if she caught anyone sneaking in their own food and drink the people involved would receive some strong language before being kicked out.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I am a cheapskate but I don't take my own food and drink into restaurants and bars.
In bad weather I've had to get a bit creative in places to picnic but there is usually somewhere and these days, certainly in Paradiski/3V there are comfortable places provided.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Onkel Willi’s Hut up the mountain in Schladming (5.5 euro for 0.5 of decent local beer) puts this on the back of the menu (google translate):
U N S E R EP R E I S E I UNDERSTAND
...in euros without tips, incl. 10% or 20% VAT, wage tax, church tax, income tax, sales tax, trade tax, social and health insurance and fire insurance
Liability insurance, life insurance and pension provision. Theft and glass breakage insurance
Gas and heating costs, warm and cold water costs, waste water costs. Electricity costs.
technicians, leasing contracts, rubbish removal, food waste disposal costs. Detergents and cleaning agents. Cloning towels
and soap, repairs, maintenance contracts, telephone charges, decoration costs, musicians' fees, AKM, radio and television fees. Wages and salaries!
T h e a n g fo r a s t a r vis i t :
T h e tax office, the community and w i r T h r e i
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@JohnS4, I don't do that myself, I just don't buy their overpriced wine. However, why should a bottle of wine, that is clearly cheep cost more than a dish prepared by the chef, with vegatables, carbohydrates, sauces etc. with kitchen porters, waiters etc involved?
@ulmerhutte, I had a feeling that some of these motorway service areas type places had a picnic area incorporated in them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@johnE, a lot of restaurants clearly use the drinks to boost their income - perhaps because people tend to focus on the food prices.
Been a thing in the UK for a long time.
To be fair there is still buying, storing and waiter service involved.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Some cheapskate Brits on holiday grab stuff from the breakfast buffet to take out for lunch. Friends of mine who were on a holiday in the Balkans last year said their tour guide specifically asked them NOT to do this and said it was a well known British behaviour.  Disgraceful, really. The absurd price of restaurant wine is one of the reasons I rarely eat out. In Waitrose I can buy wine and fillet steak etc for two for the price of a bottle of plonk in a restaurant. And nobody needs to stay sober to drive home!
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In Norway a couple of years ago (it was a cycling holiday in the summer, not skiing) we were briefed to take pack-up lunches from the breakfast buffet everywhere. The hotels even provided bags for the purpose.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Chick wrote: |
| @Nervous Nellie, Fellow cat. Just back from St.Anton .Paid €6.50 for small beer in most place's and €10 for large Fanta also in most restaurants and bars. Food definitely gone up in the mountain huts. Austria probably the same as French prices now. |
Blimey! Makes Switzerland look cheap in comparison |
Indeed. I have wondered at what point the relative inflation rates will start to make Switerland cheaper again for Eurozone visitors. Up until now it seems that this has been largely negated by the exchange rate changing at the same time, but will that continue?
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| j b wrote: |
| In Norway a couple of years ago (it was a cycling holiday in the summer, not skiing) we were briefed to take pack-up lunches from the breakfast buffet everywhere. The hotels even provided bags for the purpose. |
Well yes, but that's because the rate you were paying included lunch and they're just minimising costs by making you prepare it yourself. UCPA in France used to be like that, maybe they still are, so that in essence you shouldn't need to spend any money on the mountain at all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It’s 680 or 700 SF for a guide in Andermatt this winter , more if your group is greater than 3 people
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It's well-established that the big premium in Switzerland is the cost of instruction, for various reasons. This tends to skew ski cost comparisons between Alpine countries. Of course, if you want instruction/guides then it's significant, but for other cost elements like accommodation, groceries, petrol, meals, etc. the differences are much narrower and it's possible to minimise them if you are prepared to compromise or are careful about your choice of bars and restaurants.
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FAQ
