 Poster: A snowHead
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@Idb1213, mistaken identity, did not read the post correctly 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Holy sweet Jesus, that looks delicious!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kinda weird though, even though it's not very windy, they're only opening a limited amount of slopes/lifts today (4 lifts, 8km).
Also, Cervinia's website is confirming the opening of the Italian side tomorrow.
"03.11.21 INFO: Saturday 6th november Italian side opening : Plan Maison Fornet and Bontadini chairlifts"
https://www.cervinia.it/en/impianti
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gustavo the Gaper wrote: |
Kinda weird though, even though it's not very windy, they're only opening a limited amount of slopes/lifts today (4 lifts, 8km).
i |
It is worse than that - it means no-one from the Italian side can get over to ski. I would be pretty cheesed off if I was in Cervinia for some skiing. They are still showing the Klein Matterhorn lift as “in preparation”. But this would be very late to open it. I can only imagine there is ice on the lift cables. It is still -15 up at Klein Matterhorn.
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@JohnMo, I would have thought they ran at that temp?
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| twoodwar wrote: |
| @JohnMo, I would have thought they ran at that temp? |
Certainly. They run at quite a bit lower than that. But if ice has built up on the cables (eg from the storm) the lower the temperature the harder it is to get the cables clear. At present the fancy new 3S cable cars are having their maintenance period (back in action Saturday). So only the old cable car is running up to Klein Matterhorn and that is more prone to being closed because of ice (and indeed wind).
I always have my suspicion that they don’t try as hard to get the cars running in shoulder periods as they do in peak weeks. But like all good conspiracy theories I have no evidence to support that.
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@JohnMo, sure you are correct. The balance sheet will be out.problem is perhaps Zermatt gets a reputation for late opening, so visitors go elsewhere on shoulder periods and business declines. They perhaps need to run at no profit for short periods, in order to boost overall numbers and profits
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For Cervinia, I think the lift co commercials are more driven by weekend visitors from Milan/Turin on day trips as opposed to planned holiday makers who make other commitments (eg hotel and rail bookings) - the connection between number of lifts open and cash in till is stronger (the Cerv facebook certainly reflects this). For Cervinia, opening more stuff by each successive Saturday is vital - so I think Cretaz and Pancheron will open 13th and links to VT on the 20th... but I am an optimist. 
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| twoodwar wrote: |
| @JohnMo, sure you are correct. The balance sheet will be out.problem is perhaps Zermatt gets a reputation for late opening, so visitors go elsewhere on shoulder periods and business declines. They perhaps need to run at no profit for short periods, in order to boost overall numbers and profits |
I read somewhere that Zermatt AG lost 4 Million CHF last year by continuing to run the lifts throughout the season....unsure how happy they will be to be flexible this year!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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For the more experienced Zermatt visitors: I'm planning to go skiing again in 2 weeks (19-21/11) but I'm very afraid of getting to the Alps just to see the lifts close again. What do you think are the chances of Zermatt (and Saas-Fee) being completely closed? I mean, now they're opening more pistes, so even if it's very windy at the top of the mountain, I assume the chances of closing the entire resort are lower than earlier in the season (because the lower pistes should also have sufficient snow)? Or not? Does that make any sense?
Thanks a lot!
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| Gustavo the Gaper wrote: |
For the more experienced Zermatt visitors: I'm planning to go skiing again in 2 weeks (19-21/11) but I'm very afraid of getting to the Alps just to see the lifts close again. What do you think are the chances of Zermatt (and Saas-Fee) being completely closed? I mean, now they're opening more pistes, so even if it's very windy at the top of the mountain, I assume the chances of closing the entire resort are lower than earlier in the season (because the lower pistes should also have sufficient snow)? Or not? Does that make any sense?
Thanks a lot! |
I appreciate that getting to Zermatt (or Saas Fee) from the Netherlands is much easier than getting to Breuil-Cervinia but the Italian side will still be much better at that time. Weather conditions allowing, on the Swiss side the pistes up on Klein Matterhorn, the pistes from Furggsattel and the pistes from Trockener Steg down to Furgg and the link over to Italy should be open. But as you have experienced this time does see a lot of storms. It would not be surprising if Klein Matterhorn and the link to Italy were closed. Furggsattel is less likely to close but the top lift station is perched right on the ridge overlooking the Italian basin (in fact it is actually on Italian soil) so it too is vulnerable to southerly winds in particular. It would be a long way to come simply to ski Trockener Steg down to Furgg. There is no chance that any of the other areas will open. They could (like the Italians do) but they simply don’t.
I am out there for a few days in 10 days time. Like you I am hoping for more snow before then (looking unlikely on GFS) but then calm sunny days for 3 days – then back to storms!
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You know it makes sense.
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Another great Facebook video from the Zermatt Tourism social media chap. For the first time in 600 days you can ski across the border from Switzerland into Italy. This is going through the Theodulpass. On a blue sky day that view of the Cervinia basin that you get as you come out of the pass is awe inspiring.
https://fb.watch/96bnV60SBg/
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi all! I've tentatively booked 27Nov - 4Dec on the Italian side, legs getting the inch after seeing all those skiing stories. Appreciate it is still a few weeks to go, but with the current conditions, do you feel that the number of lifts/pistes open will be extensive enough for a week's worth of skiing? I read that ski passes have to be bought online, I think I will buy the Italian pass and add on Zermatt pass when weather conditions allow. Is that possible to do last minute?
P.S. This forum has been a lot more useful than google, been reading for years. Thanks 
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Poster: A snowHead
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This is the full list of published prices at bottom of this page : https://cervino.skiperformance.com/en/store#/en/winter/support/prices
Doesn’t mention upgrades (whereas it has in previous years ( when breakeven was 2 trips to Ch) - VT should be open and accessible by 27 so quite a lot open Cerv side… I think best to email the lift co to be sure u can upgrade this year. Though I’d still want to go to Ch whenever I wanted and try to save money other ways!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would be astounded if you cannot buy a lift pass at a lift station in resort. This is what we always do everywhere and we visit Zermatt at least every other year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Wildsmith wrote: |
This is the full list of published prices at bottom of this page : https://cervino.skiperformance.com/en/store#/en/winter/support/prices
Doesn’t mention upgrades (whereas it has in previous years ( when breakeven was 2 trips to Ch) - VT should be open and accessible by 27 so quite a lot open Cerv side… I think best to email the lift co to be sure u can upgrade this year. Though I’d still want to go to Ch whenever I wanted and try to save money other ways!!! |
That is very strange re not showing the cost of a daily upgrade to be able to ski on the Swiss side. I don’t find the Cervinia website very user friendly and that is an important piece of information to leave out.
The Zermatt website is still showing the price of a daily upgrade to be able to travel over to Italy for the day (it is CHF42). It would be extremely odd if you could have a daily upgrade one way but not the other.
https://www.matterhornparadise.ch/en/Current-news/Lifts/Tickets-tariffs/Ski-passes-winter
Most people in Zermatt seem to recommend only buying a daily upgrade as and when you want to go over. However, I seem to be in a minority in that I think it is best to buy the international pass if you are coming for more than a couple of days. It would seem odd not to want to enjoy the “other side”. On one day you just about break even or lose out a very little. Once you cross over on more than one day you are in profit. For example in the “minimum” prices in the link above (Zermatt operates dynamic pricing) a 6 day pass for Zermatt is CH338 and an international pass is CHF380, a difference of exactly CHF42 – the price of a daily upgrade! For most weeks in the season the prices will be more than that (you need to use the pricing page on the website to put in your dates). So the gap will be a bit more than CHF42 but the principle of: one day crossing, small loss; two days crossing profit, holds good.
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| Cookiemonsterhahaha wrote: |
Hi all! I've tentatively booked 27Nov - 4Dec on the Italian side, legs getting the inch after seeing all those skiing stories. Appreciate it is still a few weeks to go, but with the current conditions, do you feel that the number of lifts/pistes open will be extensive enough for a week's worth of skiing? I read that ski passes have to be bought online, I think I will buy the Italian pass and add on Zermatt pass when weather conditions allow. Is that possible to do last minute?
P.S. This forum has been a lot more useful than google, been reading for years. Thanks |
Every area will be open by then (not runs into town on the Swiss side) but not all pistes will be open. So there will be extensive skiing to be had if not quite the full experience. Personally for the reasons I just noted in my previous post I would get an international pass. I would be amazed if you did not cross over into Switzerland on a couple of days. Of course the weather can ruin that by the lift companies having to close the crossing. But you would need to be very unlucky to be locked out for the full week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JohnMo wrote: |
| Gustavo the Gaper wrote: |
For the more experienced Zermatt visitors: I'm planning to go skiing again in 2 weeks (19-21/11) but I'm very afraid of getting to the Alps just to see the lifts close again. What do you think are the chances of Zermatt (and Saas-Fee) being completely closed? I mean, now they're opening more pistes, so even if it's very windy at the top of the mountain, I assume the chances of closing the entire resort are lower than earlier in the season (because the lower pistes should also have sufficient snow)? Or not? Does that make any sense?
Thanks a lot! |
I appreciate that getting to Zermatt (or Saas Fee) from the Netherlands is much easier than getting to Breuil-Cervinia but the Italian side will still be much better at that time. Weather conditions allowing, on the Swiss side the pistes up on Klein Matterhorn, the pistes from Furggsattel and the pistes from Trockener Steg down to Furgg and the link over to Italy should be open. But as you have experienced this time does see a lot of storms. It would not be surprising if Klein Matterhorn and the link to Italy were closed. Furggsattel is less likely to close but the top lift station is perched right on the ridge overlooking the Italian basin (in fact it is actually on Italian soil) so it too is vulnerable to southerly winds in particular. It would be a long way to come simply to ski Trockener Steg down to Furgg. There is no chance that any of the other areas will open. They could (like the Italians do) but they simply don’t.
I am out there for a few days in 10 days time. Like you I am hoping for more snow before then (looking unlikely on GFS) but then calm sunny days for 3 days – then back to storms! |
Good idea; I actually love Cervinia, and it's cheaper overall (even the International skipass is cheaper, which doesn't make much sense haha) so I'll see if I can find a reasonable way to get there instead. Many thanks!
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Thanks @wildsmith @johnmo! I think I'll get the international pass indeed. Fingers crossed more snow kicks in in the next few weeks  can't wait!
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Hello everybody,
Thank you for all these questions and answers, esp. JohnMo. This really is a treasure trove of information!
A different question - we are in Cervinia for NYE. Any suggestions on where to go? Especially since we need to book.
Cheers
Max
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I know nothing about eating in Breuil-Cervinia but I certainly know Chalet Etoile up on the mountain. The idea of replying suggesting it had occurred to me. They don’t seem to specifically discuss New Year’s Eve but as they generally do dinner it would be surprising if they didn’t do NYE.
@MaxiD Chaelt Etoile is one of the most famous mountain restaurants in the Alps. It is absolutely superb. It would be a rather different experience as it is not in town but located just above the Plan Maison lift station on the mountain. It is discussed on their website:
http://www.chaletetoile.it/dinner/
If you were interested I wouldn’t leave it too late to book.
I love the bit that says “we collect our customers with skiido or a snowcat.” That is a big difference! I can imagine enjoying a ride down inside the comfortable cab of a snowcat after an acceptable amount of NYE alcohol. But hanging on to the back of a skidoo!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="JohnMo"]
| Wildsmith wrote: |
| I love the bit that says “we collect our customers with skiido or a snowcat.” That is a big difference! I can imagine enjoying a ride down inside the comfortable cab of a snowcat after an acceptable amount of NYE alcohol. But hanging on to the back of a skidoo!!! |
Book a heli? Or push through till the lifts open? Or push through and go for the top
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| JohnMo wrote: |
If you were interested I wouldn’t leave it too late to book.
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That was my first thought. Would imagine it would book up very quickly if not already.
My favourite restaurant in the Alps #yum
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| Idb1213 wrote: |
No snow for the next 10 daysssssss. Really thinking over if end of november would be a good time.   |
Yep. The GFS graph looks pretty horrible for fresh snow. If things don’t improve this will turn out to be a poor November for fresh snow after an encouraging start. On average Zermatt get 2m of snow in November. For some reason the November average is two thirds higher than the December average.
There will be little or nothing to do off piste (unless you heliski or tour some way out). However, if you want to enjoy pistes they should still be good. Both lift companies look after the pistes really well. Even with the forecast higher temperatures from Thursday for a few days it should still be cold enough to keep everything in good condition and allow early and late snow making (most of the resort has snow making).
If things do turn out as bad as those GFS graphs predict what might happen is that while “all areas” might be open, lots of pistes might not be. For example: they simply might not open Schwarzsee; neither of the best two blacks (Blauherd to Patrallarve and Furgg to Furi) might open; Riffelberg to Furi might not open. It will still be good skiing but more limited than in a bumper year. I suspect Cervinia might still want to get runs into town open but that might be hard. Similarly Valtournenche will be open from the 20th but it too might not open the run into town.
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You know it makes sense.
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@JohnMo,
Thanks,How far does these graphs go? what is the likelihood things will turn around?(does that happen?) strange because two days ago i saw a snow prediciton of 70 cm at cervinia mid-mountain and about 20-3 at bottom for wednesday (at snow forecast app) and now it’s nothing.. I don’t look for offpistes as i don’t usually do. (besides i go again in february), but i really was hoping for some good piste conditions. (I also go with beginners which is why town pistes are quite important).. anyways we have only 2 days left of free cancellation on the hotel, and we really dont know what to do
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@JohnMo, can you tell by the graphs what snow will look like around 20-27th? How certain is it?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JohnMo wrote: |
| neither of the best two blacks (Blauherd to Patrallarve and Furgg to Furi) might open; |
Interested in your choice as to the two best blacks. i agree with the first, but slightly surprised about Furgg to Furi - it has quite a long stretch along the road that I don't particularly enjoy. Having said that, i realise that there aren't that many blacks in Zermatt! I think i would opt for 13 off Rothorn to be in the mix
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@MaxiD, repeat recommendations for Chalet Etoile. My last skiing trip with my wife was March 6th to 13th 2020. We arrived Saturday in Zermatt. I had already booked Chalet Etoile for the Sunday our first day. COVID was just started to get dodgy, and we were out the week of the Liverpool Athletico Madrid match at Anfield, and the Cheltenham festival, both of which should obviously not have happened in retrospect. We made it for lunch, but it was packed! Food was as excellent as ever. I boringly as ever had the fish soup( so good). My wife took a pic I and posted it to our 3 girls and partners on WhatsApp . My son in Law replied ‘ Lunch to die for!’ Needless to say I didn’t but the press back home was getting everyone to fever pitch, and the point was well made. We got back off to Zermatt, and that night Italy closed down all resorts. We got the last day. We skied Zermatt till Friday, and Switzerland closed all resorts that night. A close call all round. The restaurant though is excellent.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Idb1213 wrote: |
| @JohnMo, can you tell by the graphs what snow will look like around 20-27th? How certain is it? |
There are people on this website who understand weather way more than me. I follow the GFS graphs and the MeteoSwiss 48 hour projections.
The GFS graphs are pretty good for the next two or three days – particularly if the runs (i.e. the lines) are all showing the same thing. So you can be fairly confident that there is no snow coming before we get to the weekend at the earliest. But beyond that the confidence level drops very quickly. It is still fun to keep an eye on them. But on 8 November you really can’t have any certainty at all about 20 November.
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| DCG wrote: |
| JohnMo wrote: |
| neither of the best two blacks (Blauherd to Patrallarve and Furgg to Furi) might open; |
Interested in your choice as to the two best blacks. i agree with the first, but slightly surprised about Furgg to Furi - it has quite a long stretch along the road that I don't particularly enjoy. Having said that, i realise that there aren't that many blacks in Zermatt! I think i would opt for 13 off Rothorn to be in the mix |
Interesting. It is one of the (many) great things about skiing that we can all have different (and equally valid) opinions. I love the Furgg to Furi run. You are right that it has that fairly dull end bit – but there is a lot of fun to be had before then. The main problem is that it is used as a home run by people who have been skiing reds and think they can “manage” it (plot spoiler: they can’t). However, if you do it earlier in the day later in the season (so it is in the sun rather than shaded by the Italian ridge) it is glorious.
I am less of a fan of the black on the north side of Rothorn. It is steep and narrow so provides a good challenge. But coming down that side I would more often ski the reds – they are more twisty and windy, which I like.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JohnMo wrote: |
| Idb1213 wrote: |
| @JohnMo, can you tell by the graphs what snow will look like around 20-27th? How certain is it? |
There are people on this website who understand weather way more than me. I follow the GFS graphs and the MeteoSwiss 48 hour projections.
The GFS graphs are pretty good for the next two or three days – particularly if the runs (i.e. the lines) are all showing the same thing. So you can be fairly confident that there is no snow coming before we get to the weekend at the earliest. But beyond that the confidence level drops very quickly. It is still fun to keep an eye on them. But on 8 November you really can’t have any certainty at all about 20 November. |
im wondering tho, can things turn around with a good day or two of heavy snowing?i think that in order for end november to be good, it should be snowing pretty much all month(or at least 2-3days a week)? like, how good can it be? at best we can get by the end of the month another day or two of major snowing(unless it will get a week full of snow which seems pretty unlikely), but how much difference can it really make?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@JohnMo,
now the app (snow-forecasts) shows 15cm on sunday but it keeps changing. frustrating
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| JohnMo wrote: |
| DCG wrote: |
| JohnMo wrote: |
| neither of the best two blacks (Blauherd to Patrallarve and Furgg to Furi) might open; |
Interested in your choice as to the two best blacks. i agree with the first, but slightly surprised about Furgg to Furi - it has quite a long stretch along the road that I don't particularly enjoy. Having said that, i realise that there aren't that many blacks in Zermatt! I think i would opt for 13 off Rothorn to be in the mix |
Interesting. It is one of the (many) great things about skiing that we can all have different (and equally valid) opinions. I love the Furgg to Furi run. You are right that it has that fairly dull end bit – but there is a lot of fun to be had before then. The main problem is that it is used as a home run by people who have been skiing reds and think they can “manage” it (plot spoiler: they can’t). However, if you do it earlier in the day later in the season (so it is in the sun rather than shaded by the Italian ridge) it is glorious.
I am less of a fan of the black on the north side of Rothorn. It is steep and narrow so provides a good challenge. But coming down that side I would more often ski the reds – they are more twisty and windy, which I like. |
Good point. I think I've mostly skied it towards the end of the day when the combination of the road and the high volumes of skiers make it less pleasant. I also really enjoy the runs down from Schwarzee so tend to come back that way if in that area, but must try this black earlier in the day as you suggest.
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@DCG, ditto, this run is a good black, but it’s a bit like rollerball, late middle afternoon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Prep of Cretaz baby slope in progress. Looks like Pancheron, Ventina Gletscher, and Trockener-Furi (fences up and Furi cable car open to stop people using the run!) runs are ready ... I'm still betting they'll open these at least for Sat 13th (plus maybe only a small bet on Cretaz -P.Tourette lift too...). Beginners don't need fresh snow IMHO, though its nice for making snowpeople (if its the right snow)...
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| Idb1213 wrote: |
| JohnMo wrote: |
| Idb1213 wrote: |
| @JohnMo, can you tell by the graphs what snow will look like around 20-27th? How certain is it? |
There are people on this website who understand weather way more than me. I follow the GFS graphs and the MeteoSwiss 48 hour projections.
The GFS graphs are pretty good for the next two or three days – particularly if the runs (i.e. the lines) are all showing the same thing. So you can be fairly confident that there is no snow coming before we get to the weekend at the earliest. But beyond that the confidence level drops very quickly. It is still fun to keep an eye on them. But on 8 November you really can’t have any certainty at all about 20 November. |
im wondering tho, can things turn around with a good day or two of heavy snowing?i think that in order for end november to be good, it should be snowing pretty much all month(or at least 2-3days a week)? like, how good can it be? at best we can get by the end of the month another day or two of major snowing(unless it will get a week full of snow which seems pretty unlikely), but how much difference can it really make? |
It really doesn’t take much to keep the pistes in good shape. Relatively small regular snowfall is fine. It is for off piste that you want some big dumps.
Sunday is too far away to have any significant confidence as to what will happen. Those apps that show an amount of snow depth 5 days out are good entertainment but not a forecast. The models are still all over the place. The apps take one model run (which itself might be a complete outlier) then look at tea leaves (or something less scientific I suspect) and convert it into a snow depth.
Even for the next two days the model runs are all over the place. It is currently raining in the Med. That precipitation looks like it is going to push north past Turin and into the Aosta valley and possibly over the ridge into Zermatt. The GFS models however are not agreeing with each other at all – and that is in the range where you would expect some confidence. That is because the precipitation is not one big band but “bitty”. So you could be fortunate and find a lump of precipitation sits over you and dumps. Or it could all pass you by completely.
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FAQ
