If fundamental changes like age handicapping is going to be on the table, perhaps a review of the level at which the ET is set could also be on the cards? (Cloud-cuckoo-land I suspect). For a ski instructors qualification any test which needs age-handicapping seems to me to be pitched too high. By all means reserve fleche/chamois openers for those with a race coach qualification and perhaps those who take competition classes through gates, but to use that as a reason for having a tough ET-like qualification for everyone seems to be the ultimate tail-wagging-the-dog example!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar, Are you suggesting an age handicap for ISTD Tech as well ?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, precisely. keep the ET but open the market to ISIA and then let people compete by offering "our instructors are trained to ISTD/racing level" if they so desire. The public can then decide. In the same way that a level 2 can't take people on glaciers it can be decreed that ISIA's shouldn't teach gates at a high level. simples.
rob@rar, Are you suggesting an age handicap for ISTD Tech as well ?
No, it seems to me that ISTD Tech does not rely on such a high level of strength and conditioning. At least I've never heard anyone who has passed it or is training for it refer to this aspect at anywhere near the level of debate that the ET generates.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ski, We also need to start considering what the handicap for the level 1, level 2 and ISIA are going to be and if they are pitched to high. There are physical elements involved in these qualifications. I had a 70 year old on my ISIA tech, he knew his stuff but didnt pass because he could not complete the full days or runs at times (fantastic he was trying he was a great guy and quite inspiring) should he only have had to complete a certain percentage of the day, or length of the bump run etc etc etc? It was to demanding for him so does that make the ISIA Ageist also or pitched to high?
gilo, Simple indeed If you put gates + a few other things im with you 100%
I'm getting the hang of these quote boxes now - bit of a Luddite before I'm afraid
BEANIE1 - Thanks for eliciting a response to Skimottaret's questions. I am unsure why I was quoted a none of my questions appear to have been answered
.
Quote:
BASI are going to pursue the route of supporting both the ISIA and the Eurotest.
I have read the minutes most carefully and I am not quite sure how this can happen. Mr Renouf was a vote counter at the ISIA congress he must know that the positions of ISIA and FEMPS are diametrically opposed. He must know that one party is taking the second party to court on 2 separate counts and that the second party launched a vindictive set of proposals intended to bring into disrepute a duly constituted committee of the first party solely on the grounds that they, FEMPS, did not like the evidence that had been revealed. The second party OSSV (FEMPS) then publicly accused ISIA of being undemocratic, this is a incredible accusation from a self styled group of ski instructors who steadfastly refuse to allow other ski instructor associations to join their small band of 3.
Quote:
The BASI Board of Directors (the members elected group to lead the strategies of BASI) want the ISTD to be recognised throughout the whole of EU and this can only happen by including the Eurotest and EMS within the syllabus.
This is incorrect. European legislation does not require absolute parity of training standards. The host nation (ie. France, Austria etc) can only prevent a migrant from working if they can prove that there is substantial difference in training in one or more area. If a migrant undertook the test of a third party, possibly ISIA (FEMPS being the second party) and it could be a 'race' or a 'safety' test then the host nation would have to prove that the training undertaken by the migrant was substantially different. Mr Renouf may be confusing the "Brussels Agreement" which involves a small number of ski instructor associations who have aligned themselves with FEMPS (Fr., Au. & It.) with real EU legislation. As AG Sharpston noted, and I paraphrase her comments, any such agreements are entirely worthless when placed against the law.
ROB@RAR - Your 5th perspective is, I think, covered in my 4th. I chose not to enter into too much detail as I did not wish to lead peoples thinking, rather it was an attempt to stimulate their thinking - apparently it worked as you did some thinking.
STEVOMCD
Quote:
I read the Sharpstone ruling with considerable interest, but I'm not sure of its relevance to skiing and the Eurotest?
Fair point so here is the relevance.
When the whole race test thing started the sole reason given by the French to the EU (EC as it was then) was - 'safety', this remains the case today. In delivering her opinion Sharpston must have decided that snowboarder instructor's who had not passed the Eurotest were not a hazard to public safety and presumably the training which they had thus far received did in fact make them safe. Now the obvious question is if a snowboard instructor is safe without a Eurotest why can't a ski instructor be safe without a Eurotest?
In their submissions to Sharpston the French (SNMSF) were very damning about snowboarders and snowboard instructors. SNMSF claimed that there were special rules about shared pistes which snowboarders & snowboard instructor did not understand and that only ski instructors were capable of understanding how a ski class under instruction was going to act. Sharpeston dismissed these submissions, read the footnote 40. Has anyone heard of the French running ‘short courses’ - NO because that French submission, like most of their submissions was/is not based and fact and has no evidential proof. But it must make snowboarders want to get really warm and cuddly with the SNSMF.
Where you as a snowboarder do need to be concerned is footnote 13. It is my understanding that this is not the case but the court must have got the information from somewhere and it would have to be either BASI or SNMSF. I’m a bit surprised about Ireland.
SLIKEDGES - I liked the fence bit, It hadn't considered it that way before. It made me think.
Quote:
d of course this would also be the case if the basic pass standard of ET were lowered.
The term ‘re-aligned’ rather than lowered might be more appropriate.
JJC - I only assumed one thing, ie., that you may not have considered that other postee's might have an uberlawyers mindset. My thanks to HURTLE for clearing up my rather clumsy wording.
JJC James – Good man, clearly on the ball. And you are quite right that just because the ESF do it doesn’t mean that the whole world has to do it.
Quote:
but for me it is something to do other than teaching for an hour and is great fun!
Ah. that might not suit me - I just live to teach.
HURTLE – BASI is a company limited by guarantee therefore we need a Legal Director. The current LD is Coral Riddel who practices part time for Pinsent Masons in Edinburgh.
Great thread, best on Snowheads, but we need more people to get involved, tell every BASI member that you know so that they can join in.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
jjc, rob@rar, Thanks for your responses I am not suggesting that either ISIA or ISTD should have an age handicap..but wanted to see what you might think.
Although this does raise the possibility of me having to have look at ISTD Tech - but at 47 that would be a big step.
gilo,
Quote:
In the same way that a level 2 can't take people on glaciers it can be decreed that ISIA's shouldn't teach gates at a high level. simples.
Works for me
After all it is free
After all it is free
beanie1 wrote:
skimottaret and Bindingcheck.
The responses from Dave Renouf to skimottaret's questions are as follows:
"BASI has been sending a TD to ensure fairness, can we not get a report on this?"
I'm waiting for confirmation as to whether we can publicise Susie Berry’s (FIS Technical Delegate) reports about the Eurotest and the fairness of the way they are run.
"Will BASI push for the ISIA test which seems to have addressed the inconsistencies or at least some changes to make it more reliable? or will they kowtow to the French who as sixman says just use it as a filter to keep cheap labour in the ESF pyramid and wages high."
· BASI are going to pursue the route of supporting both the ISIA and the Eurotest. The perception that we are Kowtowing to the French is not a true one. The BASI Board of Directors (the members elected group to lead the strategies of BASI) want the ISTD to be recognised throughout the whole of EU and this can only happen by including the Eurotest and EMS within the syllabus. The perception that this is due to the French requesting this is understandable, as most of the negotiations tend to involve the French amongst others as the French administration is the only centralised system. however this is the volition of all 5 countries who are delegated to be able to run the Eurotest
"can you confirm that BASI has submitted an application to the EU? If so i think that info should be published to members."
· The negotiations with regard the EU are ongoing and it would be imprudent to publish anything without it having official outcomes agreed by the EU.
Good to hear we may see Susie's report(s). It may dispell a lot of rumours and conjecture amoungst the membership and show us how much work behind the scenes goes on within BASI re the Eurotest.
I am puzzled how BASI will be able to "support both the ISIA and ET". ISIA has clearly rejected the ET in its current format even threatening legal action. BASI (and particularly Dave R) has done a great job keeping our interests at the for within ISIA and the Eurogroup. Being at the top table in all the negotiations unlike other smaller skiing nations definitely confirms that. They clearly have a difficult job as if they didnt support the FEMPS position they could lose the equivalence and right to work that was so hard fought for for ISTD's
I hope the implication is that changes will be proposed to the current ET format. It was great to hear from jjc that next season an average will be taken, if you add opening and closing times the ET looks a lot like the ISIA technical test.
Completely reasonable to not publish documents that are under negotiation but is it not in the members interest to know what our associations key negotiating points are within the application that will have deep ramifications for members in the coming years?
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Quote:
Quote:
Why do pass results swing from a few percent to 10's of percent at each ET? are the candidates that different?
This is a great question and one I asked last season. The answer I got given by the French openers is that the candidates are in fact quite different. When large amounts pass on a day in France its often because a college that offers ski instructing as a course or ski instructing with another profession has entered their students. You really can tell when its one of those days because the professionalism, the equipment and everything I mentioned before is spot on. When you see 30 pass from these colleges many of them are comfortably in first time and it isn’t luck. If we want to see our candidates doing the same we need to train and approach it in the same way.
Thanks that is very interesting to hear and makes a lot of sense. I had always assumed it was due to an opener having a storming run and setting an impossible to beat time.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 23-03-11 13:01; edited 1 time in total
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
slikedges,
Quote:
From a pulling up the drawbridge viewpoint, any correction system would obviously allow more over the moat, so bad, but from a training business' viewpoint, there'd be lots and lots more customers looking to be trained. Lots. And of course this would also be the case if the basic pass standard of ET were lowered. Think about it.
It would be great for us BUT as I suggested in a past post when deciding what the correct level is we should not consider our own gratification or pockets. We have to decide what the appropriate level is for the clients our candidates are potentially going to teach. I have no disputes over ISIA being able to teach everywhere but I do believe the level 4 serves a purpose for the more demanding client and the ET is justified in that qualification.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
skimottaret,
Quote:
Completely reasonable to not publish documents that are under negotiation but is it not in the members interest to know what our associations key negotiating points are within the application that will have deep ramifications for members in the coming years?
If I were a member of a professional organisation of this sort, I definitely wouldn't appreciate being fobbed off in this manner! I'd want to see the original application that had already gone out in my name. After that, I'd reckon to allow the board to negotiate as they saw fit without constant updates to the membership, but to revert to members with the final draft, prior to signature on the dotted line.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hurtle, i am too old to fight that battle go on and give us your (now laypersons) viewpoint on whether or not Education is exempt from the Age Discrimination act as per the review Stewart put up for reference. I am told that it categorically is NOT exempt.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skimottaret, on the limited amount I've read and entirely without prejudice ( ) I also think it is not exempt.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
This thread just gets better and better but perhaps we should keep our focus on the Eurotest as that is the title of the thread.
Having said that I crave indulgence to respond to JJC
JJC
Quote:
he knew his stuff but didnt pass because he could not complete the full days or runs at times
Quote:
It was to demanding for him so does that make the ISIA Ageist also or pitched to high?
I suspect everyone is truly impressed, we heartily congratulate his efforts. You may have a point especially as the Her Majesty's Government is currently trying to extend everyones working life. It should be noted that the Training Body spend a lot of time at conferences making certain that the required standards for each Level are applied by all Trainers. Consistency of performance throughout the course is a key element. Perhaps if the gentleman had been able to attend an assessment only, one day test (at low altitude?) he might have been able to satisfy the criteria. Perhaps one day assessment might be a better way forward for all candidates at Levels 3 & 4.
GILO - Welcome. A well worked solution, in many ways this was what BASI were trying to do when they attempted to establish Training Centres in the Alps, But that idea was kicked into touch by the French Government who are, it would appear, directly linked to SNMSF.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
But that idea was kicked into touch by the French Government who are, it would appear, directly linked to SNMSF.
Yep the french unlike our lot pay attention to what is going on in their country... good on them!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
Perhaps if the gentleman had been able to attend an assessment only, one day test (at low altitude?) he might have been able to satisfy the criteria. Perhaps one day assessment might be a better way forward for all candidates at Levels 3 & 4.
Now we move back to our discussion on different levels and its necessity for the client.
Do you think the qualification serves its purpose if you move the goal posts to the need of the candidate rather than placing them at an appropriate level for the needs of the client he or she is going to teach?
Would it benefit the client if the instructor can only ski half a day or half a bump run or half of anything at low altitude?
Before my racing days and on family ski holidays my brother and I often would switch instructors after a day. Why? They couldn’t or didn’t want to meet our demands. We craved to ski bumps, jump and drop off things. Fortunately there were instructors able to do this and identifiable by their qualification we knew it as BASI 1 back then(You may state and quite rightly they may not have had to do the ET back then, but skiing has progressed massivley due to equipment etc and so should the instuctors. Please dont suggest its a test of your athletic ability because i hope i have shown it is not). These were the instructors that inspired me to pursue skiing further. After that we always requested this because we got our money’s worth from these guys. Anyone could have kept the folks happy by saying we were improving and doing really well but would we have in reality? Would the quality of the lesson have been as good as it could have been? Would we have improved at the rate we did without this quality of instructor that possessed both teaching and performance abilities? At a young age and not being in any way, shape or form a fantastic skier or knowledgeable could tell the difference in the ability of my instructor. You will state again that some ISTD’s wont have these abilities anymore for many reasons and I agree with you and further proves the need for re testing.
James makes a good point when he talks about the level he has to teach up to in the ski school. His qualifications prove he “potentially” can do this and therefore serve a purpose. He is valuable to the ESF because he can teach at every level required. If you re position the standard so to speak, the ESF and many ski schools that offer lessons up to a high standard (most do) would be inundated with applications. How do you suggest they identify who is up to the job?
Why does everyone want to work in France? Because we all know ski instructing pays more and can be a career in France. Why? Because they can employ less people to do more by having higher standard instructors. If you employ someone who can only teach to a certain level you have to employ another person to teach the next level up and so on therfore everyone has to be paid less. If your instructors are versitile and can teach everything they can be further spread. The value of that instructor goes up. If you got rid of the level 4 and the qualities required for it the level of pay would go down and more importantly the level and quality of snowsport instruction. Job protecting or maintaining standards? I would be keen to hear what the person paying for the lessons would prefer.
You stated James is on the ball by mentioning “not everyone has to do it this way” and you are quite correct he is and they don’t. Would it not be better you suggest ski schools should be allowed to exist that specialise in beginner to intermediate lessons that can employ accordingly with no barriers? Rather than trying to disprove the relevance of having the ISTD?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 23-03-11 15:25; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jjc,
Quote:
Rather than trying to disprove the relevance of having the ISTD?
I don't think anyone is doing that. The Eurotest, only, is being questioned.
I think you answered it yourself...
Quote:
We craved to ski bumps, jump and drop off things. Fortunately there were instructors able to do this and identifiable by their qualification we knew it as BASI 1 back then
Had those BASI 1s passed the Eurotest ?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Rather than trying to disprove the relevance of having the ISTD?
I don't think anyone is doing that. The Eurotest, only, is being questioned.
Bindingcheck and I have been discussing levels of ski instructors on a whole alongside the relevence of the ET.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jjc, Just out of interest in all your combined time as "regular" ski instructors how often have you had regular clients ask to spend time skiing gates (in contrast to those who seek you out for specific race coaching programmes as racers or aspirant ETers etc themselves)?
fatbob, I think you need to start looking at it from another angle. The ET is not testing your ability to teach someone else how to ski gates. It is testing the candidates skiing ability. The instructor’s ability to ski is going to come in to play at any level of lesson in or out of gates and I would suggest a long time before they are at a level to go in gates. Free skiing and racing go hand in hand (check Jon Olssson or Darron Rahlves out) how well you can ski translates pretty well into how well you can race and vice versu.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
fatbob, I teach three group lessons with gates, 3 star, Bronze and Gold. There is a competition group but my french isn't quite there yet! Many brits are in these lessons to.
On top of that i teach kids privately to go for their fleche and chamois so quite a lot actually. One more thing, some hotels where i work have their own weekly fun races, so their group lessons often have time in gates.
If i were a parent i'd want the instructor that is responsible for the safety of my children to be competent at what they are being asked to do. Visual learners require this at high standards.
After all it is free
After all it is free
jjc, I don't want to pick a fight. Your post suggests that the people who most inspired you - BASI 1s, had not passed the ET. So what I don't understand is why when there is already the ISTD Tech - which is the successor of the training that produced the instructors that inspired you - there needs to be the ET in addition ?
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jjc, I'm not arguing that high level racers aren't very good all round skiers and don't really have any skin in the game but as I see it even if the level of the Eurotest were set 20-30% lower would it seriously diminish the quality of the lessons that 99.99% of clients want or need?
And as I think you've already identified its only a test of the skier's ability at the peak of his/her training programme on the best of equipment, mental focus etc etc.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
ski, I think it comes in with the progression of the sport and equipment. Plus the recognition of what James has just pointed out. Lots of qualifications chop and change with time as things progress. They learn new things and try to make them better. The ET will undoubtedly change at some point, to what i dont know. Sorry if i appeared blunt.
fatbob, 20%-30% I would say massivley, yes. I have identified these things need to be improved for those taking and failing the test and if we want to start helping them pass. For 15,000 + others (explained in a past post) It can be a very very long way from their peak. This is part of a top, high level qualification.
20% is a huge amount in skiing. I think there was a graph that concluded that some of us in the British development team would be getting lapped if we were 1500m runners
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
fatbob,
Quote:
I'm not arguing that high level racers aren't very good all round skiers and don't really have any skin in the game but as I see it even if the level of the Eurotest were set 20-30% lower would it seriously diminish the quality of the lessons that 99.99% of clients want or need?
"If i were a parent i'd want the instructor that is responsible for the safety of my children to be competent at what they are being asked to do. Visual learners require this at high standards."
99.99%, i'd go as far to say that the ESF teach more individuals than any other group of instructors in the EU, as many of the ESF lesson lead to racing in some form it is therefore important to have a test that ensures the safety of those participating. As other nations have backed this test they obviously agree that instructors in their system should also have this level. The little ones must be looked after properly!
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 23-03-11 17:27; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
jjc james wrote:
The little ones must be looking after properly!
Sorry in the context of the ESF I find this a little amusing - I've never seen a ski school of any nationality cram more kids into a class than the French.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Group lessons have a max of 12 were i work, thats less than half the average class size in Uk schools. What is more important in the long run, wether they can read and write or ski?
Largest group i have ever had was 22! it was actually because some kids in a school group didn't like the older instructors and would wait until i set off from the meeting point and then "lose their group" so they could come find me. Little oiks, i felt like i was leading a train longer than some runs!
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 23-03-11 17:20; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
fatbob wrote:
Sorry in the context of the ESF I find this a little amusing - I've never seen a ski school of any nationality cram more kids into a class than the French.
Maximum 8 per group adults/children in Tignes le Lac, except French holidays when it is max 12
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jjc james,
Quote:
99.99%, i'd go as far to say that the ESF teach more individuals than any other group of instructors in the EU, as many of the ESF lesson lead to racing in some form it is therefore important to have a test that ensures the safety of those participating. As other nations have backed this test they obviously agree that instructors in their system should also have this level. The little ones must be looked after properly!
I didn't realise that the ESF only allowed those who'd passed ET to teach children.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This, as others have said, is a very interesting thread and I've mostly been content to read and learn, however a couple of things strike me that I guess I ought to pitch in and mention.
First off my POV is that of someone who is currently a BASI L2 starting to go for modules for L3 ISIA. I teach regularly on dry and work busy periods at Cairngorm and have done more than the 200 hours of teaching necessary for L3 already. I will shortly be doing the ADC 1 and perhaps the AD 2, then Common Theory over the summer and next season ... well who knows! My added interest in this is as someone who came late to BASI and being in my 40s I view the ET as probably being a long shot. If there was an age related rule brought in I guess I'd benefit but I'm currently kind of agnostic on the main argument/discussion here because I can see good points in all of the perspectives being discussed.
However, as I say a couple of things strike me; firstly:
Being devils advocate for a moment, if BASI or anyone else believes that the only fully qualified instructors are those who have passed ISTD this really ought to be made clear. In France as I understand it (I'm not sure what the situation is in the other FEMPS nations but I presumke it's the same) all other levels are viewed as only having trainee status, you can work in France for the ESF (or any ski school given training status ... which effectively means the ESF as I understand it!) as a L2 or L3 provided you have passed the Test Technique and are working towards fully qualified status, i.e. ISTD. If BASI really believe this is the correct way to go why do they not make it very clear that all other levels give semi-qualified status and nothing more, if you like they are simply exams you have to pass on the way to being qualified a bit like say GCSEs and A Levels on the way to getting into university and then perhaps getting an undergraduate degree and then a post-graduate qualification? I say this because I think there are a lot of people at the L1 and L2 stages who view their qualifications as being complete of and in themselves, yes they know they could take it further but for many valid reasons (job, age, commitments etc.) they cannot. However, remember that GCSEs, A Levels and degrees are accepted by employers as being qualifications in themselves which don't necessarily have to be taken to a higher level, the qualification being asked for presumably suiting the job that is being advertised.
Secondly, following on from the points made above, it strikes me some people reading this thread might get the impression from the comments made that if you hire an instructor in France you'll get an ISTD but this isn't always the case. If you book with a British run ski school yes you'll get an ISTD but with the ESF you might very well get the equivalent of an L2 or L3 (ISIA) because they employ them too unless you specifically ask for a higher qualified instructor. Surely that must mean that there is a place for L2s and L3s in the ski schools and not just because they need to get trained but because they fit some clients needs? This being the case then does that not invalidate some of the points above about ISTD status being necessary for visual learners etc. or are we saying either that demonstrations by L2s and L3s are fine up to a certain level of client or that some levels of client can be fobbed off with poorer demos? If it's the former then surely that means that effectively we already have a system in France that allows for different levels of instructor to suit different levels of client, although it doesn't seem to be clearly pitched as such, I trust it's not the latter!
Perhaps I'm missing the point somewhere!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
T Bar, No but those that train them in gates and at the higher levels have the diploma (qualification of which the ET is a part of).
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stewart woodward wrote:
fatbob wrote:
Sorry in the context of the ESF I find this a little amusing - I've never seen a ski school of any nationality cram more kids into a class than the French.
Maximum 8 per group adults/children in Tignes le Lac, except French holidays when it is max 12
So a reasonable cap except during the busiest/most dangerous periods when it is increased by 50% for economic reasons? .
I'm just having a little fun here but I think we can all see gaping holes in the ET = safety of customers argument. I think the allow ISIAsfreedom of trade the most reasonable argument but this is largely due to scepticism that a test with a pass rate as low as single digit % is anything but an artificial barrier to entry.
Now we move back to our discussion on different levels and its necessity for the client.
Well actually I wasn't trying to move back to the levels of instructor posting that you made yesterday. I plan to respond directly to you via email as I was of the opinion that we may be taking the thread off track.
Additionally I was not suggesting that the 70 year old should have a lowered standard. but if he had sat one of the old only assessment days in, for example, Cairngorm his performance might have been different which would in turn have possibly resulted in a pass.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
JJC - James
Sorry, but using the class sizes in schools is not comparing like for like. Not even for PE class sizes. You were going really well up until that point, but don't get too hung up on the 'visual learner'. No one is solely a visual learner, not even a deaf person
T Bar, No but those that train them in gates and at the higher levels have the diploma (qualification of which the ET is a part of).
James. Thankfully my clients this afternoon managed to survive their gate training with myself. Not really sure how they managed without myself having the ET. I will also be one of the openers for the Fleche on Friday but as i don't have a claibration my time will not count. My boss & the other opener still ski to 30 FIS points at weekends! so they will be opening.
I believe that BASI ISTD gives equivalance for BEES 1, the lowest level of Diploma in France. There is also BEES 2 & BEES 3 which are for higher level race training and includes attending university.
I believe yourself & Craig raced to about 50 FIS Points (which i wish i could do) but you would not be allocated the high end race training in Tignes as 50 FIS points is not considfered low enough!
Were you in Morzine today? It appears no Brits passed
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Bindingcheck,
Quote:
Sorry, but using the class sizes in schools is not comparing like for like. Not even for PE class sizes. You were going really well up until that point, but don't get too hung up on the 'visual learner'. No one is solely a visual learner, not even a deaf person
If you can teach 1 person to ski you can teach 12.
It also makes no difference how i do, as this miniature battle of words we all enjoy is unfortunately never going to get past the stage it has been at for the last few days. I do believe we have hit a wall, it will take action from an external party, Basi, Femps, Lawyers etc to move our discussions further than they are now.
However the visual learner is just as important as a kinaesthetic or audio learner. Each has a right to be taught in the fashion that yields the best results for them. These 3 forms may from a spectrum in which each learner will benefit to different extents but the need for a suitable teaching standard in each one individually is still required.
May i ask Bindingcheck, your point of view to this issue? Which side interests you the most, the legal side? the challenge of debate? working as a ski instructor?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Bindingcheck,
I answered one of your questions whish was a rewording of skimottaret's question.
Quote:
And does BASI intend to align itself with ISIA (where it is on the inside) or with FEMPS (where it is on the outside)?
with
Quote:
BASI are going to pursue the route of supporting both the ISIA and the Eurotest.
I passed your other question (how did BASI vote in St Christophe) on to the office. I will also pass on your additional comments made today.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
I believe yourself & Craig raced to about 50 FIS Points (which i wish i could do) but you would not be allocated the high end race training in Tignes as 50 FIS points is not considfered low enough!
Doh, guess we better start training again. Although I might just have to accept its beyond me, Im not up for university.
Stewart I have been thinking about other ways of doing the test and you might be able to help me remember something. When they tested the proposed ISIA test in Garmish last year, I think I am right in saying it worked out a lot harder than the ET would have? I remember being used as the current 50 point skier for the ISIA tests calculation and I am pretty sure it worked out that less would have passed.
James is in Morzine. JJC athlete Jack was less than a second out yesterday and I hear Todd was 3 tenths out in Sestola.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
JJC
And would you be embarrassed if Jack & Todd were working in your ski school?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
If you put gates + a few other things im with you 100%
Works for me 
