 Poster: A snowHead
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I think TOs have their place in terms of economies of scale in buying flights, accommodation and transfers. And a rep on the ground who is in the resort for the season will probably know more about the place, and be able to help people unfamiliar with the resort. But much TO publicity wrongly tries to give the image of them as some sort of winter equivalent to Voyages Jules Verne. When things go badly wrong - as they are bound to do at least one or twice a season, if not more - then there's not a lot of value-add the Rep brings. I think a lot of people eventually move away from them. In part because they develop preferences that DIY better addresses and in part because they have more control over events if there are problems.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 30-01-23 15:27; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
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flying was already familiar to millions of Brits
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and your point is? I was speaking about my own experience as part of a discussion about how skiing holidays have become hugely more accessible to many families |
and my point is that by the late 60s taking a plan to go an a bucket and spade holiday was quite common for Brits even if you couldn't afford it.
Firms like Crystal extended the summer beach holiday to winter solving the condnumdrum of transport and accomodation with things like cheap club hotels.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| LaForet wrote: |
| When things go badly wrong - as they are bound to do at least one or twice a season, if not more - then there's not a lot of value-add the Rep brings. So I think a lot of people eventually move away from them. |
badly wrong in what sense?
Ski accident the rep can help liase with the authorities.
If it is to do with accomodation or transfers then the package holiday company has a duty to get you to your accom and back home and the rep is part of the organisation. He or she may book a hotel in the valley for a coach blocked by snow or liase with head office to organise alternative flights home etc or liase with the coach company to rescue late arrivals from the airport.
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Badly wrong examples.
When our flight was diverted to another airport they didn't think to organise any water or snacks on board for the long coach transfer to the new departure airport (and no, the original departure airport had run out of all food and drink). When we talked to our rep, he said "Oh this happens regularly....".
Hanging 'round in the freezing cold waiting for the transfer bus at 4am - no sign f it for an hour. Temps around -15°C. When it turned up with the rep we asked what the problem was and when did they know we'd be waiting? Turned out they thought it was 80% probable when the came 'round the previous evening to check everything. Didn't think to mention it.
Really, this is when you realise that you have more life experience in dealing with logistical problems and a family on holiday than most 18-20 year-olds, plus that most TOs don't give their Reps any leeway or budget to help with problem situations anyway. So even if they are competent, their hands are tied.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
and my point is that by the late 60s taking a plan to go an a bucket and spade holiday was quite common for Brits even if you couldn't afford it.
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Well if this thread was about bucket and spade holidays that would have been a relevant point. "Ordinary people" didn't generally go on ski holidays in my young days. My grammar school (grammar schools being what they were, and hugely favouring kids from "better" areas) was full of girls from expensive parts of Cardiff. But nobody that I was aware of had been on a ski holiday before our school trip. None of my uni friends went skiing, either. It just wasn't a topic of discussion and there was no "uni" ski trip. Ski holidays (and other sorts of holiday) became a lot more accessible and affordable later - as, indeed, did "bucket and spade" holidays. Loads of kids from those parts of Cardiff will now be quite accustomed to ski holidays. I get the impression things were different in France and more "ordinary" kids went skiing - one young French guy who stayed in our apartment talked about having been sent off to ski camps in winter, like Americans go to summer camps. He was from Burgundy, so it wouldn't have been on the doorstep.
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Well I went to a comprehensive in North Yorkshire and there was a ski trip every year. Although mine was in the early 70s, via Hourmont (specialist school travel company), my older sister went in the late 60s and the trips had been running for some time before her trip. I went to Vinje in Norway, which had one lift. I was useless but absolutely loved it. My parents were too poor or too mean to take me on a "winter ports" holiday again so I had to wait until I was in a job and could pay for myself 10 years later. Curiously my father had skied in Switzerland in the early 50s when he was a Sous Chef at the Palace in Gstaad, though it seems he spent most of his free-time learning intimate German than skiing.
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| LaForet wrote: |
Badly wrong examples.
When our flight was diverted to another airport they didn't think to organise any water or snacks on board for the long coach transfer to the new departure airport (and no, the original departure airport had run out of all food and drink). When we talked to our rep, he said "Oh this happens regularly....".
Hanging 'round in the freezing cold waiting for the transfer bus at 4am - no sign f it for an hour. Temps around -15°C. When it turned up with the rep we asked what the problem was and when did they know we'd be waiting? Turned out they thought it was 80% probable when the came 'round the previous evening to check everything. Didn't think to mention it.
Really, this is when you realise that you have more life experience in dealing with logistical problems and a family on holiday than most 18-20 year-olds, plus that most TOs don't give their Reps any leeway or budget to help with problem situations anyway. So even if they are competent, their hands are tied. |
I think this is it : reps are kinda trained not to scare the horses, and probably to avoid being pestered avoid notifying of problems until they absolutely have to. Then their hands are tied by whatever the ops team in HO are arranging and telling them about. Not a lot of room for proactive initiative. In a real difficulty like a snowmaggedon I'd expect to be on a cold floor in a hall somewhere, long after the more agile have nabbed the last beds in the valley.
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| pam w wrote: |
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and my point is that by the late 60s taking a plan to go an a bucket and spade holiday was quite common for Brits even if you couldn't afford it.
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Well if this thread was about bucket and spade holidays that would have been a relevant point. "Ordinary people" didn't generally go on ski holidays in my young days. My grammar school (grammar schools being what they were, and hugely favouring kids from "better" areas) was full of girls from expensive parts of Cardiff. But nobody that I was aware of had been on a ski holiday before our school trip. None of my uni friends went skiing, either. It just wasn't a topic of discussion and there was no "uni" ski trip. Ski holidays (and other sorts of holiday) became a lot more accessible and affordable later - as, indeed, did "bucket and spade" holidays. Loads of kids from those parts of Cardiff will now be quite accustomed to ski holidays. I get the impression things were different in France and more "ordinary" kids went skiing - one young French guy who stayed in our apartment talked about having been sent off to ski camps in winter, like Americans go to summer camps. He was from Burgundy, so it wouldn't have been on the doorstep. |
Likewise, nobody I knew at School had ever been skiing, and neither did they do any school ski trips. I think the height of ambition for school trips was an exchange trip to France in Summer which didn't appeal to me anyway. (I lived in NW England back then which made European travel more difficult I guess)
I was always fascinated by snow though and still am in my 50s. Despite having been on many ski holidays and seen amazing amounts of snowfall I still can't help looking out of the window when we are lucky enough to get a few flakes falling in the SE England.
I used to watch Ski Sunday and pester my parents why couldn't we go on a ski holiday but they were not interested at all. Perhaps even more annoyingly it wasn't even a cost issue, they were happy to spend lots of money on expensive hotels for us in Summer but they couldn't see the attraction of going somewhere cold. Eventually I got my wish though once I could pay for myself and I was quite happy to forgo summer holidays to go skiing instead.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What are people arguing about? TO and chalet both cater to ‘group’ of people. So if you fit the group’s characteristics, you’ll be happy. But if you don’t quite fit the group’s norm, you’ll be better off DIY. Simple as that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| abc wrote: |
| What are people arguing about? TO and chalet both cater to ‘group’ of people. So if you fit the group’s characteristics, you’ll be happy. But if you don’t quite fit the group’s norm, you’ll be better off DIY. Simple as that. |
I would say it's more of a discussion than an argument. Isn't that the point of a discussion forum ? Of course there is plenty of opportunity for a full on argument where personal insults are flung around on the Brexit and Scottish independence threads for people that like that kind of thing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kettonskimum wrote: |
It's all a bit argumentative eh?
Look, people's budgets are different at the end of the day. If you can afford a week at half term up high with lunches out every day then I say well done!
Personally I'm more like Money Saving Ski Expert. Yes, I'm tied to half terms at the moment, but I make it work to suit my budget.
All it comes down to is priorities. Eating out at lunch isn't one for me but ski in/out is for example.
I'd love to eat out everyday but then I also want a family summer and autumn holiday. So you tighten your belt in the right places to make it work. |
+1 for all of this.
We also want a family summer holiday. And if Mr. O and I can squeeze in a weekend away sans children too, all the better. So we do exactly as the above.
We're incredibly fortunate to be able to afford to go away abroad even once a year, never mind at least twice. I know many families that don't even go on holiday at all. Growing up, neither of us had this lifestyle.
Complaining that our ski holidays are too expensive is rather 'my diamond shoes are too tight'.
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I agree with @Owlette, we also want to go on other family holidays throughout the year, that's why we don't want to spend more than necessary on a ski holiday. So we are happy to not have lunch on the mountain every day and not eat out every evening (when not staying in a half board hotel, like we will do this year), book our holiday DIY instead of as a package from a travel agent and stay in a less luxury hotel/apartment, as long as the location is convenient. As we have children, we are tied to the school holidays, which makes a ski holiday considerably more expensive than a "fly and flop all inclusive holiday" for us, especially if we fly and/or book a packaged holiday. There is also the extra cost of buying new ski gear (jackets, trousers, thermal underwear, fleeces, goggles, snow boots...) for everyone in the family every year, as children are growing and my husband and I ideally don't want to wear the same clothes on each ski holiday (I know this is vain, but I enjoy posting photos on social media when on holiday!) Like other people in this thread have said, inflation in western Europe (apart from Switzerland) is currently very high, which is why the prices of everything from petrol/flights to food, lift passes and accommodation have gone up in price since last year.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 30-01-23 19:55; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| Owlette wrote: |
Complaining that our ski holidays are too expensive is rather 'my diamond shoes are too tight'. |
Clearly ski holidays aren't possible for those on the subsistance level or below but there are plenty of people who spend alternately on other stuff like new kitchens or cars or extragavent nights out etc that knock ski hols into the cheap thrills bucket. But it seems there is still attached a "lah di dah" label to skiing by non skiers : seen this weekend by Mike and Zara Tindall being accused of being out of touch with the cost of living crisis for posting instas from a ski weekend. She's Queenie's granddaughter FFS the skiing is the least bit of her privilege.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Motherofthree wrote: |
| I agree with @Owlette, we also want to go on other family holidays throughout the year, that's why we don't want to spend more than necessary on a ski holiday. So we are happy to not have lunch on the mountain every day and not eat out every evening (when not staying in a half board hotel, like we will do this year), book our holiday DIY instead of as a package from a travel agent and stay in a less luxury hotel/apartment, as long as the location is convenient. As we have children, we are tied to the school holidays, which makes a ski holiday considerably more expensive than a "fly and flop all inclusive holiday" for us, especially if we fly and/or book a packaged holiday. There is also the extra cost of buying new ski gear (jackets, trousers, thermal underwear, fleeces, goggles, snow boots...) for everyone in the family every year, as children are growing and my husband and I ideally don't want to wear the same clothes on each ski holiday (I know this is vain, but I enjoy posting photos on social media when on holiday!) Like other people in this thread have said, inflation in western Europe is currently very high, which is why the prices of everything from petrol/flights to food, lift passes and accommodation have gone up in price since last year. |
I'm not sure how these two sentences can live in the same paragraph !
'we don't want to spend more than necessary on a ski holiday'
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'don't want to wear the same clothes on each ski holiday'
Maybe it's just me but the thought of buying new ski clothes every year just to look good in facebook photos is bizarre. I think I need a beer to get my head around that idea 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Maybe it's just me but the thought of buying new ski clothes every year just to look good in facebook photos is bizarre. I think I need a beer to get my head around that idea
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@JohnS4, I agree - I'm having a glass of wine whilst contemplating how I managed to wear the same jacket so long. Bizarrely, I can't find it (despite having turned the attic upside down) but I have bought one second hand from a fellow Snowhead for £40 and that will do fine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@JohnS4, I agree that those two statements are contradictory and I'm aware that it might sound a bit odd. We each have our personal preferences on how to spend our money and what I meant is that I personally would rather spend money on buying new ski clothes/gear, than expensive/luxury accommodation in a ski resort and eating out multiple times during the week! So I'd rather have a packed lunch say three days out of five, stay in a modest accommodation and spend the money I save on a new ski jacket and/or goggles (which don't have to be expensive/branded) instead. Plus I sell the gear we don't need anymore second hand whenever possible.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@JohnS4, Not at all, each to their own and thanks for your understanding! If I was buying premium branded ski clothes, I would also keep them for a few years before replacing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Motherofthree wrote: |
| , I agree that those two statements are contradictory and I'm aware that it might sound a bit odd. |
I think it's easy enough to understand, but I would question what you're doing in a thread about skiing becoming too expensive if that's the way you think. It's all very well suggesting that you can manage without restaurant lunches, but all you're really showing is that you clearly have money to spare, such that skiing is _not_ too expensive for you.
Oh, and nobody cares what you're wearing on your ski holiday pics. Really. Nobody even notices if it's the same stuff you've been wearing for years - if it looks good, it looks good.
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I like to have ski stuff which looks OK but I don't think any of the people I might send photos to would have any recollection at all of what I wore in last year's photos! And my kids always complain that most of the photos are of the mountains, not me. There's an easy answer to that...... 
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@Chaletbeauroc,
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Oh, and nobody cares what you're wearing on your ski holiday pics. Really. Nobody even notices if it's the same stuff you've been wearing for years
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Maybe not in your circles, but you really can't speak for others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@Chaletbeauroc,
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Oh, and nobody cares what you're wearing on your ski holiday pics. Really. Nobody even notices if it's the same stuff you've been wearing for years
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Maybe not in your circles, but you really can't speak for others. |
Of course I can. Welcome to the internet 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And if is too expensive, as in we are being ripped off, or legitimately too expensive, as in nobody is making a fast buck here?
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Given that the "ski market" is as competitive and close to being a "perfect market" as one can imagine, it seems unlikely that there is any large scale ripping off going on.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Most of the British skiers prefer to book catered ski vacations. This option turns out to be very expensive. A much cheaper option is to rent self-catered ski chalets. In Plagne 1800, there are some lovely self catering chalet like Chalet Dakota ( www.chalet-dakota-laplagne.com ). When the chalet is located close to the supermarket and if you can gather as many as 15 friends to organize a ski trip this option will cost you much less. This is indeed a DIY option but more and more british ski fans are choosing this option.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 31-01-23 15:01; edited 1 time in total
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Having just returned from a 4 day lads trip, I can advise the skiing part of the trip was not the expensive part. I dont think I would have spent any less going away for a rugby weekend or stag.
So sure it is an expensive weekend but so is any weekend away.
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You know it makes sense.
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Having just returned from a 4 day lads trip, I can advise the skiing part of the trip was not the expensive part.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Coming from Dublin, either you go with the two main TO's that do packages from Dublin, or you do DIY. Driving isn't really an option for our 'one week a year' family ski holiday.
The thing that struck me most when organising this year's holiday was the transfer cost. Taxi transfer quotes for 3 people from Lyon to Paradiski went from €650 two years ago to between €875 and €950. I priced up several resorts, and the transfer price increase was similar across the board. One way we save a good bit of money is by using a home exchange website and going to someone's holiday apartment using the 'points' we've earned on the site. In Ireland, there are no fines for taking kids out of school during term time, so we go in January or March. February midterm is completely unaffordable to us.
The other noticeable price rise is in airport food and drink, but this isn't exclusive to ski holidays!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@oldschool72, Is a car rental not much cheaper for your transfer
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
The other noticeable price rise is in airport food and drink, but this isn't exclusive to ski holidays!
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It always surprises me to see families eating lots of airport food. Even travelling alone, I'm just as likely to take myself a cheese sandwich and an apple and buy a coffee. Transfer costs or car hire (which has also got much more expensive) is unavoidable, but spending big ££ in airports is a mug's game. It's not as if it's enjoyable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| sebgauthier wrote: |
| Most of the British skiers prefer to book catered ski vacations. This option turns out to be very expensive. A much cheaper option is to rent self-catered ski chalets. In Plagne 1800, there are some lovely self catering chalet like Chalet Dakota ( www.chalet-dakota-laplagne.com ). When the chalet is located close to the supermarket and if you can gather as many as 15 friends to organize a ski trip this option will cost you much less. This is indeed a DIY option but more and more british ski fans are choosing this option. |
Spam alert 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Cheapski where that from? Looks like a vail resort page, if so lot cheaper to buy a season pass.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Was looking at the transfer costs from Innsbruck Airport to Serfaus over the last few years.
2019. 2 people in a minibus both with snowboard bags was 301E return.
2021. 4 people in a minibus all with snowboard bags was 352E
Quote for this year. 2 people in a minibus both with snowboard bags is 385E.
A clear increase over the 4 years but not as extortionate as I expected.
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| sebgauthier wrote: |
| Most of the British skiers prefer to book catered ski vacations. This option turns out to be very expensive. A much cheaper option is to rent self-catered ski chalets. In Plagne 1800, there are some lovely self catering chalet like Chalet Dakota ( www.chalet-dakota-laplagne.com ). When the chalet is located close to the supermarket and if you can gather as many as 15 friends to organize a ski trip this option will cost you much less. This is indeed a DIY option but more and more british ski fans are choosing this option. |
Spam alert |
Indeed. He'd make an ideal Tory MP with his undeclared financial interest.
https://www.societe.com/societe/chalet-dakota-898698873.html
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It's pretty expensive. I am renting two piste-side gites in Les Saisies for the first week of April. I know the proprietors and we've rented one of the gites before. They have now made a second and I looked over them in October. They are extremely well-appointed, super great kitchens and loads of bathrooms. One sleeps 14, the other 12, but we are a party of only 15, so will have loads of room. The rents (first week in April) are 1700 and 1400 euros and even with linen and cleaning added, cost a lot less than the cost of that gite in mid April (4700).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Transfers are insane. We considered getting transfers when planning our last trip, from Salzburg airport to resort. Once we got the quotes back, we opted to get the train instead. Mr. O will be the first to say that he doesn't mind spending the money, but he does want to feel hes had good value in doing so. Expensive transfers didn't make the cut.
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not just go with packages.
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packages aren't necessarily expensive, though half board packages are. If you can find the right size self-catering accommodation without ridiculous "under occupancy" charges, but with transfers included, it can be an economical option.
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FAQ
