 Poster: A snowHead
|
| Winterhighland wrote: |
... it should be known as the 'Ski Anywhere but Great Britain Club'.  |
One has to delve into the past publications (which began in 1905) of the SCGB to get an understanding of how and why the Club distanced itself from Scottish skiing. It's a long while since I looked at early editions of the British Ski Yearbook (the SCGB's key publication for many decades), but I recall regular coverage from the Scottish mountains. In many ways I think the Ski Club of GB was rooted in the Highlands - you'd probably find that a sizeable percentage of its early membership was domiciled in Edinburgh and Glasgow and communities northward.
Bear in mind that overseas travel was complex, time-consuming and relatively expensive in the early 20th century. It would take the best part of 24 hours to get to the Alps by train and ferry. Native Scots were obviously better off (in every sense!) staying put, and many Edwardian Englishmen must have found the Highlands a great adventure playground until ski lifts became the norm on continental European slopes from the 1930s. Since everyone was hiking up (with the notable exception of the cog railways in Switzerland, and then some early cablecars) there was no great difference in sliding on the Highlands or the Alps.
Overhead ski lifts (as distinct from ropetows) weren't installed on Scottish slopes until the late 1950s and early 1960s, by which time much British skiing had migrated south-west to the great mountains of Switzerland and Austria (in particular), so this didn't help the Scottish cause ... but it was also not helped by a snottishness on the part of southerners at around that time.
It's clear to me that the Ski Club of Great Britain began to turn its nose up at Scottish skiing just at the time that Caingorm was building its first chairlift up the White Lady (1961) and planning the development of Aviemore Centre. We'd have to check whether the Club had reps up there (or at Glenshee or Glencoe) in that era, but the lack of engagement had one disastrous effect, because this was also the time at which the SCGB lost its status as governing body of British ski racing.
If the SCGB had stuck to its principles of being a true Ski Club of Great British Skiing (which Scotland undoubtedly offers) then it would have been on the case when the demand for British ski instructors rapidly developed in the early 1960s. Initially the Scottish ski schools (particularly the many which set up in Aviemore through to the 1970s) required talented immigrant experts from Switzerland, Austria and Norway to run them. Then - crucially - an association of British ski instructors was established.
It the SCGB had been on the scene and engaged it would have committed itself to the training of ski instructors (like the RYA trains yachting instructors) and discovered a very valuable role for itself. What a lost opportunity! [end of sermon]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
PlanetSki reports on the same document ...
http://www.planetski.eu/news/5321
| Quote: |
| The new report claimed there are 1.4m active skiers and snowboarders in the UK, but the figure from the Crystal Ski Industry report is 900,000. |
Swiller said, on the previous page of this thread ...
| Quote: |
| I reckon the number of UK individuals who go on a ski or snowboard trip each year is closer to half a million than a million. |
So Swiller reckons on a figure veering towards 500,000. SCGB (as reported by PlanetSki) says 1.4m.
These strike me as impressively different figures. Maybe we should herd all British skiers into a field and count them.
Swiller's price for priceless information (guesses/guesstimates) of this quality is £0. The SCGB's price for its own data in full is £750 [leading me to wonder if there's a members' discount?].
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
What is a 'UK individual', do all the French/Italian/Swiss resident in London who go back to their own countries for a ski holiday count in this or does the French/Italian/Swiss Ski Club claim them in its own figures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Caroline Stuart-Taylor, former CEO of the SCGB
| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| What is a 'UK individual? |
A first-rate question, albinomountainbadger. You're probably a UK individual yourself - I associate badgers (those poor persecuted and friendly-looking beasts) with the fields and hedgerows of the English countryside.
Another person who is undoubtedly a UK individual - a true blue Englishwoman of impeccable breeding and skier class - is Caroline Stuart-Taylor, former CEO of the Ski Club of Great Britain and a significantly qualified BASI instructor (as well as being an outstanding off-piste skier). As we move towards celebrating today ...
100,000 hits on this thread
... who better to chink glasses with than Caroline S-T, ubermeister of the SCGB for 16 winters and the architect of so much that's happened during that time. This thread - the New Ski Club of Great Britain Chat Forum - is so much a product of her achievements in communication and skiing over the years. 100,000 is - I believe - the greatest hit count of any thread ever started in the 'Piste' section of snowHeads, so this is a cause for great celebration today. Beacons must be lit and semaphore signals relayed for this great day of internet communication.
You'll no doubt argue that "this thread was actually started by Gotoma86 on 18 December 2012". Yes, of course it was, my dear, but that keen young SCGB executive person (whoever it was) was almost certainly a protégé of CS-T before the CEO departed last year - a reflection of Caroline's aspirations for the Club in matters social media.
Caroline, we salute you today!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Perhaps you can get it on Amazon for less.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
100,000 hits on this thread
But only 145 were not you david.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
100,000 HITS
As we mark the moment of this thread crossing an unprecendented threshold of popularity - 1850 postings over 9 months generating 100,000 hits - let's snatch the opportunity to reflect on the SCGB's founding dinner at the Cafe Royal, Regents Street, on 6 May 1903.
How many signatures appeared on the menu, preserved in the Club's archives?
This page says 12:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/infoandadvice/article.aspx?articleID=110#.UjhNvH9q3Ig
"12 men sat down to dinner at a fashionable restaurant in London (Cafe Royal) and decided to form a ski club"
This page says 14:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=8900#.UjhNqH9q3Ig
"On May 6 1903, 14 young men sat down at a table in the Cafe Royal and decided that Britain needed a Ski Club"
Another numerical weirdness amongst the many statistical peculiarities of 110 years!
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 17-09-13 17:50; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Comedy Goldsmith, congratulations on reaching your Zenith. Although a quick look at Wikikowitall makes me wonder if I don't mean Nadir.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Filthyphil30k, thank you. Time for a drop of bubbly ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Is that unique visitors, 'paying units', or some other kind of 'hit'?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Paying units.
Where would you like me to send the invoice?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
More about the Ski Club of Great Britain Industry Report 2013
The SCGB have now posted this ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=8972#.UjlxB39q3Ig
| Quote: |
| It was produced in association with SPIKE Marketing and sponsored by Perkins Slade. |
Spike Marketing produced an independent report last year called 'Ski Base Results 2012: A unique analysis of the UK Snowsports Market'
http://www.spikemarketing.co.uk/SPIKE_SkiBase_Results_2012_report_SAMPLE.pdf
Concerning the price of £750 discussed above, this is actually a reduction from the £795 charged for that 2012 report, though I don't know if the two reports are comparable.
-------------------
I understand that the "1.4 million" figure for UK skiers/snowboarders was quoted by the Ski Club at the press launch of the 'Industry Report' to the assembled journalists. Presumably that figure is in the published document, but this needs verifying. It would be interesting to know what figure was given in Spike Marketing's 2012 report. Anyone got a copy?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Couldn't some industrious soul with connections throughout the industry set up an anonymous online survey and ask each industry player (Crystal, snowHeads, SCUK, SCGB, Thompson, Iglu, ChillFactore, HH, BASI, SnowTrax, ISO, Maverix, Telegraph, etc….) to send their client base the link (so that there was no concern over email lists being shared/nicked) and finally get independent direct feedback from the widest possible sources?
The survey can be used at last to provide definitive data and differentiate family groups from individuals, # of trips, how long (wknd vs week, multi-week, season), independent vs package, gender, sliding preference (snowboard, ski, telemark, touring, etc….), who wears a helmet, and on.
No more conjecture.
More, by giving each entry a unique id linked to their source industry player – whichever player’s ‘link’ they go to the online survey through (some of us might receive multiple ‘invitations’ but so what?), and with a bit of co-ordination it could have a prize draw attached to entice we winter lovers to repeat the survey annually.
Just a thought. hmmmm? Who might be in a good position to kick-off something like that? 
EDIT: grammar
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 18-09-13 14:20; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Interesting? I didn't link Iglu but there it is?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
Swiller said, on the previous page of this thread ...
| Quote: |
| I reckon the number of UK individuals who go on a ski or snowboard trip each year is closer to half a million than a million. |
So Swiller reckons on a figure veering towards 500,000. SCGB (as reported by PlanetSki) says 1.4m.
These strike me as impressively different figures. Maybe we should herd all British skiers into a field and count them. |
But, importantly, I didn't say 500,000 I said "closer to half a million than a million" and that piece of vagueness was because nobody can say. I can believe there are a million trips made but how does that translate to individuals when you take into account multiple trips per season? Loads on this forum take 2... 3... 4... 5... 6... and then attain Admin class.
From what I can tell, the Skibase survey is all about the intentions of those surveyed and probably ignores the demographic time bomb that'll turn casual skiers into cruise holidaymakers. That'll be £7.95 + VAT please.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| That'll be £7.95 + VAT please. |
Not a problem. Do you have a PayPal account?
So you believe the number of individual skiers/snowboarders is nearer 500,000 than 900,000. The SCGB believes or has published (as I understand it) that the figure is 1.4 million (I understand that even 1.5 million was mentioned).
But we need to get a couple of published facts straight. What did Spike Marketing publish in 2012, and how did they define the figure? What did the SCGB publish this month, and how did they define it?
Once you've received my £7.95, please would you be kind enough to pay £795 (+ VAT) and £750 for these two reports. There's a limit as to how long we can leave this in the air.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| So you believe the number of individual skiers/snowboarders is nearer 500,000 than 900,000. |
NO, FFS, I said "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..."
I've suddenly realised I don't care how many there are, where they go or what they do when they get there. Actually, can someone recommend a resort where I bump into none of 'em?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Some where in Scotland?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Swiller, OK OK OK OK you said (do I need an autographed copy FFS?) ...
| Quote: |
| I reckon the number of UK individuals who go on a ski or snowboard trip each year is closer to half a million than a million. |
That means 'less than 750,000'. You believe there are fewer than 750,000 UK skiers/snowboarders.
As for suggested destinations to avoid these dreadful people ... my experience of skiing the Tokyo Ski Dome was being the only UK national in there. [But they've demolished it.]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Dubaian, I know he skied at Beckton Alps and that's gone too 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SCGB v snowHeads
Those more adept than me at interpreting this sort of data may wish to comment.
The graph of relative 'global ranking' was generated today by http://www.alexa.com
Global traffic ranking
skiclub.co.uk: 226,618
snowHead s.com: 121,182
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 19-09-13 16:54; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Best Ranking on the upper Axis 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
boredsurfin, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Don't know anything about global ranking - I'm guessing the lower the ranking number the more popular the site is ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
What's striking about that graph is that snowHeads' current ranking roughly matches its position in early May. But the SCGB's current ranking is way down on early May: it was c.150,000 then, but now c.227,000.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Can we have a swingometer please.
AB Ski, yes.
However... Skiclub has a Google Page Rank of 5, whereas this site has a Page Rank of 3. That means Google thinks Skiclub is more important, carries more weight, has bigger cahoonas etc. But forums typically rank lower so no big deal. And Skiclub are linked to more high ranking sites.
However... Skiclub only has 30,000 pages indexed on Google, whereas this site has 106,000 (which is quite a lot)
So, my considered conclusion is that I don't really care.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Swiller wrote: |
| Can we have a swingometer please. |
Yes you can. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Facebook 2 days ago, but when is the course? The leading SCGB reps make the grade ...
The narrator of this 4-minute video explains the annual SCGB Leader course, promoted a couple of days ago on Facebook (right) ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiclubtv/video.aspx?videoID=11739#.Uj6lEH9q3Ig
"Each year, Tignes sees the latest group of hopefuls all aiming to pass the two-week training course and make the grade. The service is renowned because of the comprehensive training leaders receive, ensuring you're in the best possible hands. The course is run by experienced mountain guides and instructors and is an examination of every candidate's all-round mountain ability and awareness."
So ... when is the 2013 course? The Ski Club's webpage mentions only "provisional dates" for the 2012 course:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiclubleaders/default.aspx#.Uj6oq39q3Ig
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiclubleaders/becomeaskiclubleader/skiclubleaderscourse.aspx#.Uj6own9q3Ig
"Resort: Tignes. Provisional date: 1-14 December 2012. Price: £2,299"
Did the 2012 course actually take place? Facebook has 'closed group' community pages for both the 2010 course and 2011 course, but no mention of a 2012 course.
This seems a bit odd - did anyone reading this do the 2012 course and/or know when the 2013 training is happening? Conventionally the timing would be around 9-10 weeks from now. A couple of other points which have never been quite clear: the price (e.g. above) includes the uniform, which the video shows is worn during training. But much emphasis is put on the pass/fail nature of the training, so what happens to the uniform in the event of failing the course? I guess a related question is what percentage of candidates make the grade?
[That's enough questions. Ed]
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Yes the course took place in 2012.
We had to put up with their general rudeness and oneupmanship all week.
In their braying enthusiasm to get the most fresh snow, they made a right nuisance of themselves: cutting people up, stealing lines and even crashing into folk. The resort was very quiet that week so, as our group numbered over 100, if they were rude to anyone, it was, as often as not, one of us. I heard so many stories that I lost count.
When one pack ( they roamed the slopes in packs of 6 or 8 ) was so desperate to dive in front of us, to get our line, that one of them crashed into me, I didn't even get a 'sorry'. He simply called, in explanation, to one of his cohorts "I missed the turn".
Oh, that's all right then, most reassuring: there was me thinking you'd crashed into me because you were an out of control, selfish dickhead who has conspired with 5 others to inflate all their egos to a dangerous degree and has no respect for anyone else on the mountain. (and breath...)
It makes it all the worse that this was apparently them being taught how to behave as representatives of their club. It's little wonder it has the reputation it does. More than one of our party expressed an intention to write to their management to express their disgust but I think they'd be kidding themselves to expect to dodge the delete key long enough for the recipient to reach the end of their missive.
People often ask why people here seem to care so much about what this club does and what it's got to do with them if they're not even members. It's the fact that they ponce about, abroad, with our country's name all over their clobber, acting like they're king o' the hill and it gives normal Brits a bad name.
Simply, this kind of behaviour, whilst sporting our country's name on their jackets, makes one embarrassed to be a British skier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
x7, what you say is pretty damning and - writing as a SCGB member - pretty shocking. But you're posting from an anonymous code, and it would be interesting to hear from one or two other (identifiable) members of your 100-strong group. Have you exaggerated at all?
Here's what the SCGB's long-term trainer Nigel Shepherd (UIAGM mountain guide) says on the video:
"There are lots of qualities we look for in leaders and one of the greatest strengths is to have a diversity of leaders - who are all characters, all experienced, and all have a desire to look after people and take them around the mountains. Those are the key elements - they need to be able to get on with people, to perform on skis, be very welcoming, show humility and care for people. Those are the most important qualities and they come in abundance, in lots of different guises."
Now, clearly what you say you've seen on the hill stands in stark contrast to what he is saying at the fireplace.
And ... once again ... is the 2013 leaders course (promoted last week on Facebook) actually happening?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Are they the guys with Landrover badges attached to the jacket sleeves c/o velcro?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
In which case, yes, I could believe the post above.
My experience of them on the chairlift was that they owned the mountain.
But the same is also true of the ESF instructor that took me out. And the ESF instructor that more than just buzzed a rookie. So they're not alone in the way that they essentially represent their nation. (edit: in both cases, I hope it's just a minority, but it's that minority that gets noticed and observed).
I found it quite funny that every time they turned round, the badge would half come off and they'd have to stick it back down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
