IMV, the Ski Club of Great Britain IS demonstrably non commercial.
Well, it's non-commercial in the way it blows massive amounts of money on services which benefit small (but very vocal) minorities of the membership. This is an extremely non-commercial thing to do, in the sense that the majority of members do not gain the benefit and may then feel their subscription fee is poor value for money.
On the other hand the SCGB is very commercial in the way it prostitutes its independence for businesses who waltz around to Wimbledon for support in punting goods and services. A very good example is the way the Club has promoted or directly sold ski helmets over the years ... initially with this garbage editorial (combined with mail order offer) in full colour, splashed all over a page ...
Ski Club of Great Britain wrote:
"All the Latest Gadgets
Headline NEWS
Did You Know?
A Porsche can accelerate up to 4 m/s2, comes equipped with ABS, a steel cage, air bags and seat belt for protection. But did you know that a skier can acclerate up to 9 m/s2?
With just a woolly hat on for protection, even if it does have the latest in fleece technology, Newton's law still equates this to a large sledge hammer striking a melon in the event of a bad accident.
A ski helmet can save your life or prevent a drama and with head injuries accounting for 50% of reported accidents it makes more than good sense to invest in one ...
That article featured a range of helmets, with "Ski Club Members Prices" and a handy direct phone line to "order your helmet".
Then there was the scandal involving a press release which the SCGB jointly released with the discount ski rental chain Ski Republic. This made false claims about head injuries and ski helmets which the Daily Telegraph unwittingly used in good faith. The Press Complaints Commission was asked to investigate ...
There's obviously a case to be made for ski helmets, but it's a sad disgrace that the body most responsible for disseminating technical facts about skiing won't provide those facts (there is tons of scientific evidence, freely available) because it has become a 'commercially ignorant' promotions agency for third parties in the ski trade.
-----------------------
For reliable facts about head injuries and ski helmets, published by the Aviemore doctor and international ski safety expert Mike Langran:
Bang to rights then DG. Well done, it's like the A team, righting wrongs etc.....
Just ask Masque to snoop the ip addresses?
Been 4 different ones in the last 7 months for PJSmeg and one missing . . may have changed internet provider. I don't have one for Geraldine. Though much has changed in the access to many sources of information in the last 4 months many doors are closed now. Though you have to love the adaptability of the Torrent teams
Respect the Mountain ... the Green Jackets ... and the missing money
Over recent years, the SCGB's principal public campaign has been 'Respect the Mountain'. This environmental project was started in 2004, following a discussion about heli-skiing at the Club's annual general meeting. It's a member-driven fund (50p levy on annual subscriptions), administered by an Environmental Working Group which reports to the Club's Council. Respect the Mountain was given a high-profile launch, with 35,000 green wristbands manufactured (for sale at £2 each) and a range of other merchandise (t-shirts, hoodies etc. etc.). All SCGB reps were re-equipped with green jackets to promote the campaign in the Club's resorts.
50p from every members subscription fee is put into a fund called the Environmental Levy, this is then used to support and fund projects that help the environment.
The Respect the Mountain campaign has donated £34,354.22 to date. This money came from the following sources:
£6,816.22 was raised from the sale of Respect the Mountain wristbands
£27,538 was raised from the Club's membership environmental levy of 50p per subscription
The Ski Club supports projects which will have a direct and visible impact in mountain environments and snowsports
Projects may relate to responsible tourism, environmental awareness, sustainable of renewable local energy sources, sustainable snowsports, pollution, travel within mountain areas, habitat, wildlife, hydrogeology, snow cover or biodiversity. Research study proposals are also considered which can be considered to be preliminary, but likely to lead on to specific projects.
Suitable projects are researched and identified by the Club's volunteer Environment Working Group, (EWG) which makes recommendations to Council.
The campaign has made donations in the following areas:
- Woodland Trust tree planting scheme - £7500 donation to plant 600 indigenous forest trees in Britain. A further £1500 donated this year.
- Research project by James Lewis, entitled "Sustainable Alpine Tourism: the British Ski Industry's Role in Developing Sustainability in the French Alps" - £4250 download the full report as a pdf
- Eco-boxes through Summit foundation in Verbier, Switzerland - £816.22
- Makesnowsportsgreener campaign and snowsports sustainability and resort makeover - £4000
- "The Big Spring Clean" - Scottish resort clean up day. This year's cost was £2600
- The Eco-guide to Mountain Gear - £1788
- Ski Club Leaders Train Travel subsidy of £100 each to encourage travel by train has been popular. 23 Leaders took it up this year. Cost £2300.
- Freshtracks is including train travel options to Les Arcs for members in this year's holiday programme. The EWG is allocating £1600 to help keep the travel costs comparable with plane travel.
- Disposable ashtrays have been handed out in resorts by Club Leaders - £1500
- The Chamonix Lac Blanc Refuge hydroelectric project has been approved in principle. This project is to replace an aging and polluting diesel generator. Cost £7500.
- The historic Britannia Hut near Saas Fee was built many years ago with the help of the Club. Solar panels have been installed to help save fuel, water supplies and environmentally intrusive heli lifts - £3000
- Researchers at Bristol University are looking into the role of micro-organisms in snow, and how snow longevity and possibly snowfall is affected. The Club has given a grant of £4000.
- We have commissioned snowcarbon to provide the Club with ongoing information on 'green travel'. This will be included in the Green Travel section and help members to plan journeys by rail. Cost £850
- Contribution of £4000 towards the University of Bristol's research into the biogeochemistry of snow in the Alps and the potential impacts on the snowsports industry and ski resorts.
Since Respect the Mountain is a quasi-charitable enterprise (an early decision was taken to fund a "long-term tree-planting project" via the Woodland Trust), it's important that the figures add up and are reported annually. Unfortunately they don't and they aren't, which is why I wrote to the Club's treasurer last year to request an annualised breakdown of income and expenditure. Let's start with the income:
Over the minimum 8 years that the fund has been in operation, an average of around 18,000 subscriptions have been collected - i.e. 8 x 18,000 x 50p - generating a total fund of around £72,000, as far as I can make out [this really needs checking]. To that sum can be added the income from merchandise: the Club declares £6816.22 as the revenue from the wristbands (though 35,000 were made), but nothing in relation to all the other products. Would a total environmental fund of around £80,000 be a fair estimate, pending a declaration of the actual amount?
Now the expenditure:
The breakdown in the panel seems far lower than the income raised. A £34k allocation of funds is declared to date, but the items specified below don't match that amount.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 22-08-13 9:22; edited 3 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've just added up the expenditure figures above, which come to £44,604 (i.e. not £34,354 stated at the top).
So the discrepancy between income and expenditure seems to be very approximately £35,000, based on an estimated total income figure of £80,000. As I say, all this needs checking and a proper declaration.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Sorry to pepper this thread, but I had a call this morning from a old friend who called himself a 'Mountain Respector', or maybe it was 'Mountain Respecter' [not sure how he's spelling it]. He'd spotted the figures above and was particularly struck by ...
Quote:
Researchers at Bristol University are looking into the role of micro-organisms in snow, and how snow longevity and possibly snowfall is affected. The Club has given a grant of £4000.
and
Quote:
Contribution of £4000 towards the University of Bristol's research into the biogeochemistry of snow in the Alps and the potential impacts on the snowsports industry and ski resorts.
Are these the same item, or has the uni been given £8000 in total? I'm no scientist, but it's the first time I've heard of "micro-organisms in snow"/"biogeochemistry of snow" having any bearing on snowsports or ski resorts. Is there a scientist in the house ... who could explain what this might be about?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque,
Quote:
Been 4 different ones in the last 7 months for PJSmeg and one missing . . may have changed internet provider.
If you have the facility to check out the IP(s) of the late and unlamented sH Tim Brown who is banned - you may well find a similarity with one PJSki...
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Dubaian, Masque et al,
My recollection, on discussing this with someone in the know, was that the SCGB had more than one genuine Tim Brown on its membership list at the time and the name may therefore have been considered a useful foil by the person using that name.
Any claimed matching of IPs used by Tim Brown to those used by PJ Ski is not something I can comment on. My recollection is that 'Tim Brown' is one of only two posters banned by this forum in the 9+ years it's operated. That's a testament to the wisdom and tolerance by which this forum has been administered and moderated over the years. If it turns out to be the case that 'Tim Brown' is the same person as 'PJ Ski' then that person hasn't respected the banning and has defied the moderators. We'll recall that Tim Brown exceeded any bounds of normal human decency in achieving the ban. PJ Ski hasn't gone that far / made that mistake.
It's worth pointing out that another poster calling themself 'Pippin' has popped up recently on the Winterhighland forum ... see page 10 for the first post by 'Pippin', datestamped 16.42hrs on Mon 10 Jun 13 ...
Quote:
ONlY bothered to register because I wanted to tell you you're completely wrong. Ski Club Leaders have never been asked to measure snow depths. That's 'never' as in for at least the last 50-years.
Seems like you observed something and then lept to a conclusion.
... and then ensuing posts by 'Pippin' over the following pages. Who on earth could 'Pippin' be?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
...Who on earth could 'Pippin' be?
Could be a bit of a cox.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
More 'Pippin' quotes from the Winterhighland thread linked above:
Wed 12 Jun 13
Quote:
Leaders don't/have never measured snow depth, fact. Going back a few years they would give the Club the snow depth they got from the resort, however they don't do this now as the Club get those figures directly from the resorts'websites.
It really is as simple as you being confused by what you saw/heard.
Wed 12 Jun 13
Quote:
Yeah, they copy and paste the official snow depth.
Thu 13 Jun 13
Quote:
Fuck sake, I said they passed on the official snow depths recorded by the resorts to the Club, usually by FAX. Since the internet, however, the Club collect all the official depths directly from the resorts' websites.
This is what I actually said: "Ski Club Leaders have never been asked to measure snow depths.
I did the Reps' course in 1989, and we were NEVER expected to measure snow depths ourselves. Fuck knows what you saw, but it clearly wasn't what you thought you saw. "
Fri 14 Jun 13
Quote:
Fuck sake, this thread is unbelievable. Pippin is my family name, you imbecile. Do you want my address and bank details as well as the names and addresses of the people the Club use to gather info on Scottish snow?
I really am starting to detect that some of you people aren't exactly all there, so to speak and not to put too finer point on it.
It's maybe worth relating the quotes above to some official SCGB statements about snow reports:
Ski Club of Great Britain wrote:
"What makes the Ski Club’s snow reports different is that it’s not just automated data from the resorts – we have a team that gathers and checks the information every day. This is how we can deliver unbiased and accurate snow reports to you."
[SCGB Snowcast, 26 Nov 2010]
"The Ski Club’s snow reports are the best online ..."
[Statement on skiclub.co.uk]
"The most accurate and up to date snow reports around"
[Statement on skiclub.co.uk]
"Regarding depths, then there are no official depths available from the Scottish resorts so we aim to report representative depths as it states in our site. We do this through various means including talking to skiers in Scotland as well as people within the ski industry who are in Scotland."
[SCGB statement on Facebook 3 May 2012]
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Poor Gerry.
Caught bang to rights.
He is the last of the guilty few who did so much damage to SCGB.
The sooner they expel him the sooner they can start to repair the damage.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
We'll recall that Tim Brown exceeded any bounds of normal human decency in achieving the ban.
Oooo....what did he do/say/write???
Just want to make sure I don't do/say/write the same kind of thing.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
My recollection is that 'Tim Brown' is one of only two posters banned by this forum in the 9+ years it's operated. That's a testament to the wisdom and tolerance by which this forum has been administered and moderated over the years.
+1 and the regulars standing up to misbehaviour and generally remaining polite(-ish).
Who and why was the other person banned?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
beeryletcher wrote:
Is it proven yet that PJSki is Gerry Aitken?
The former hasn't denied that he is the latter (he's been invited)
The latter hasn't denied that he is the former (he's been invited)
Latest clue?
On 18 August at 15:08, Gerry Aitken posted a Karl Pilkington video on his Facebook page (publicly visible).
https://www.facebook.com/gerry.constantinopleaitken?fref=ts
On 18 August at 22:15, PJ Ski posted a Karl Pilkington video on this page (above)
No one else in the ski community (that I'm aware of) took any interest in Karl Pilkington videos that day. Gerry rarely posts on Facebook, so who - apart from him - noticed his FB posting and bolstered the belief that they're the same person?
I've believed for a while that they're one and the same, having discussed this with several other people with access to evidence that I don't have.
On August 17th, on a closed Ski Club group within the Facebook community, someone shared that Karl Pilkington helmet safety video, along with the comment that 'Karl is as stupid as Goldsmith'. So, the idea that 'No one else in the ski community took any interest in Karl Pilkington videos that day' is wrong. A load of other Karl Pilkington videos were shared through the group over the next couple of days.
Once again you have proved nothing except that 2+2=whatever you like.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Comedy Goldsmith, I suspect GA hasnt vanished, he's just blocked you
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Shimmy Alcott wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith, I suspect GA hasnt vanished, he's just blocked you
Are you saying that this URL (quoted on the previous page, by which the screengrabs above were obtained) still takes you - or anyone else - to a Gerry Aitken Facebook page?
PJSki/Gerry Aitken/Tim Brown/Pippin, or various combinations, wrote:
On August 17th, on a closed Ski Club group within the Facebook community, someone shared that Karl Pilkington helmet safety video
This group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/skiclubleaders/
Why doesn't that group communicate openly with the membership of the SCGB? It seems to me that the SCGB operates - as it has done for a very long time now - as 'a club (of reps) within a club'. A tiny elite who control the club for their own ends. There's virtually no communication on the Club's own forum now ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/default.aspx#.UhkwLn9q3IU
... though between 2002 and Feb 2004 it was extremely busy and a huge benefit to SCGB members. Not to mention huge potential for membership growth at virtually no cost of acquiring new members. Much more recently ... did the private member-to-member messaging service - promised as a new member benefit in the Club's magazine back in Feb - ever materialise? That's a standard function of any social networking facility (be it Facebook, or almost any online forum).
PJSki/Gerry Aitken/Tim Brown/Pippin, or various combinations, wrote:
Once again you have proved nothing except that 2+2=whatever you like.
Well, we established that Gerry Aitken took the Karl Pilkington video off his FB page as soon as the 'coincidence' was revealed on the previous page of this thread. For what reason?
Oh, ffs, doesn't everyone know (I use the word loosely) by now, that Gerry Aitken=PJSki=Tim Brown. Old news.
+1
And boring news.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
Shimmy Alcott wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith, I suspect GA hasnt vanished, he's just blocked you
Are you saying that this URL (quoted on the previous page, by which the screengrabs above were obtained) still takes you - or anyone else - to a Gerry Aitken Facebook page?
Well you're an extremely lucky person, then.
This is all I get for my trouble.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Looks like he's blocked you old chap
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Yes. Facebook have a peculiar way of explaining this, with that 'skier's thumb' graphic.
Fortunately I've found another Gerry Aitken, who probably isn't in the Ski Club of Great Britain, so things should be less complicated
Comedy Goldsmith, you've done well not being blocked by him before now
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Shimmy Alcott, if you can still see it, you'll have to take on Comedy Goldsmith's role now and let us know all the gossip!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
maggi,
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
As hilarious as it is watching a few grown adults bicker like children for 44 pages, I'm starting to think primary school children may be far more effective at conflict resolution....
New plan, we corner off an area of the playground and you guys can just have a proper fight like the olden days, no one tells the parents, over in 3 minutes, one clear winner and both end up with far more spare time for stamp collecting, train spotting or whatever it is your generation do for fun....
plan?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Shimmy Alcott wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith, you've done well not being blocked by him before now
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Shimmy Alcott wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith, you've done well not being blocked by him before now
Well I hasten to point out that last Tuesday was the first time I can recall ever looking at Gerry Aitken's FB page ... and there it was in all its glory, as the most recent posting ... a link to a Karl Pilkington video on the same day as PJ Ski's posting to this thread with a Karl Pilkington video.
"Well, blow me down with a snowflake" I thought.
Now ... PJ Ski is apparently trying to spin the story ...
PJSki wrote:
On August 17th, on a closed Ski Club group within the Facebook community, someone shared that Karl Pilkington helmet safety video, along with the comment that 'Karl is as stupid as Goldsmith'. So, the idea that 'No one else in the ski community took any interest in Karl Pilkington videos that day' is wrong. A load of other Karl Pilkington videos were shared through the group over the next couple of days.
So ... how does PJ Ski know all that? He's either saying he's a member of this 'closed group' [the 'SCGB Leaders' Hangout'?] or is terribly well connected. Alternatively, is what he is saying just a load of cock? Why are we now being told that there's a big following of the obscure Karl Pilkington amongst SCGB leaders?
Is any of this credible ... or did Gerry Aitken simply delete the video because he'd been rumbled as PJ Ski?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Comedy Goldsmith, Who knows, quite frankly I suspect you are the only person who actually cares, I know I don't
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Comedy Goldsmith, Who knows, quite frankly I suspect you are the only person who actually cares, I know I don't
+1
Seriously, how much time a day do you think you dedicate to this Gerry guy?
Vendettas don't just run themselves y'know. They have to be nurtured, fed, watered and cultivated into a rich, creamy loathing that can nourish the soul and warm the spirit on those cold, lonely nights up a tree with binoculars observing your nemesis.
... how much time a day do you think you dedicate to this Gerry guy?
I wouldn't necessarily use the word "dedicate". About 23 hours per day. Gerry Aitken is halfway through his second term (4 years this time) as a SCGB director/councillor and - as anyone hereabouts knows - has had some influence (perhaps a lot of influence) over the SCGB's web and social media enterprises (into which a budget of £100,000 p.a. was said to be running a couple of years back) ... but it's never been clear to what goal those influences have been directed.
The 'New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum', to which this thread was ... err ... 'dedicated' [spammed] ... from December 2012 ... has not been a successful revival. It's not clear whether the SCGB wants to be part of the discussion of UK skiing, or whether it's all 'closed groups' now (like the Facebook one), behind the scenes.
During his first term, Gerry Aitken was the chair of the Club's 'New Media Task Group' which presumably recommended the new media budget to the Club's council.
Harking back to Feb 2004, it was never clear as to whether Gerry supported the SCGB forum's closure to non-members or opposed it. There were mixed messages.
Ten years on ... the chips are down.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The Pitch:
DG and a band of all-star international terrorists take over SCGB towers during the christmas party. Aitkin escapes into the air conditioning ducts and fights a desparate one-man rear-guard campaign to stop DG using an elite hacker to break into the sealed archive of the SCGB forum and publishing the content on Wikileaks.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Richard_Sideways, very good. You've obviously seen Alpha Papa, with hostage-taking siege defused by skier (and potential SCGB member) Alan Partridge. My hero and mentor. Here is an out-take ...
Anyone, apart from the White House (clubhouse) in Wimbledon, want to know how big the German Ski Association (Deutscher Skiverband or DSV) is?
Have a guess!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Is it ...
a. 30,000 - 130,000?
b. 130,000 - 300,000?
c. 300,001 - 600,000?
d. 600,001 - 800,000?
e. 800,001 - 1,000,000?
f. 1,000,001 - 3,000,000?
g. Over 3,000,001?
First correct guess wins a 2013 snowHeads media pack
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
regulars standing up to misbehaviour and generally remaining polite(-ish).
