 Poster: A snowHead
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off to solden, St Anton, Ischgl and Obergurgl on 9 Dec - loooking a bit grassy for me!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote="davidof....... Val Tho is scheduled to open at the end of the month though but they will need to make snow to do so.[/quote] VT were planning to open on 19th Nov but looking at the current conditions even with epic snowmaking that appears unlikely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| FraserP wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| ....... Val Tho is scheduled to open at the end of the month though but they will need to make snow to do so. |
VT were planning to open on 19th Nov but looking at the current conditions even with epic snowmaking that appears unlikely. |
Yes, delayed opening to the end of the month might have been a better expression. Maybe the first time they open in December?
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| Quote: |
I wonder how much to blame are the ski movies and ski mags, they create expectations of powder-perfect trips, and we're left disappointed with our regular trips.
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No! At the moment, most on here are worried because they create an expectation of snow - ie not green pastures at valley level or boulder fields at altitude 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well,the old wives tale around here is ,if there is no warm wind from the South today(16th) we will have good snow .Also looking around the hedges and bushes there are plenty of berries to feed the wildlife for the coming Winter(mother nature usually knows best)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| smifffymoto wrote: |
| mother nature usually knows best |
COBBLERS! Mother nature knows NOTHING! And there's thousands of years of human endeavour to prove it! If we went around relying on Mother nature we'd be up to our eyeballs in plagues, floods and poison monkeys. Bit of technology and a good dollop of bloody mindedness needed to fix this. Nip over to Italy, chop up a Dolomite on the cheap, bring it back to Blighty, glue it back together, dome it and hit the Make Snow NOW button! Bobs your uncle, and were all home in time for tea and crumpet.
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Verbier opening put back to first weekend in December (at the best).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Where are the so-called "global warming brigade" now then, eh?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I think we've still got around 12-15C afternoon temperatures and that looks to continue towards the end of November
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Exactly the same in Chichester today - and FL around the northern Alps looked like being up around 2500 at night.....that's definitely not cold....
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| and FL around the northern Alps looked like being up around 2500 at night |
I can assure you that the freezing level at 7:00 this morning, was at precisely 446.8 metres.
Using the rule of thumb of 1 degree temperature drop for each 100 metres of altitude, I calculate that at 2km higher up the temperature was, approximately, b*llocky cold.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Are you going to explain it to him Pam or shall I? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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You can. Go on.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Zugspitze
They are not expecting a single snowflake next week.
According to this you have to go back to 1983 to when there was a similar weather pattern, then it started snowing on the 28th Novemeber. But according to the predictions this record will be broken and we will have to go 60rs back to 1953. Also due to the current temperature inversion on the Mountain it is only possible to make snow in spots.
http://www.wetteronline.de/wotexte/redaktion/topthemen/2011/11/1116_zg_Zugspitze-Fast-kein-Schnee.htm
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Inversion layer, cold air, being dense, sinks into the valleys during the night, so the temperature is colder at 400 meters than at 1400. The cold air then gets trapped often with a cloud sea at 800-1500 meters.
FL was around 2300 m last night in the Savoie, which is about what Pam said.
-0.6C per 100m btw.
You'll notice one effect of the inversion layer is the annual winter air pollution alerts have started, with speed restrictions on the roads, breathing the Alpine valley air in winter is like smoking a packet a day. 
On the positive side, Annecy is slightly better than Geneva pollution wise.
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For a surprising amount of time in the winter there's a sharp inversion - Beaufort is a lovely spot in summer, very warm (much warmer than up the mountain) full of flowers, people sitting outside cafes etc etc. In winter it's often miserable, very cold, dark (deep valley) and with a freezing fog mixed with woodsmoke etc which can't escape. It's very strange seeing trees covered in a thick film of frost, all up to exactly the same level, with no trace of frost on the higher branches. The weather up the mountain, on a south facing slope, is incomparably more enjoyable in winter. More snow, more sun, not so bone-achingly cold.
We have next door neighbours who come up from Geneva most weekends, to escape the weather. I believe Grenoble is often very bad, too - I've encountered pollution-related speed limits there several times, and I don't go there often.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bottom of the Tarentaise can be spectacular for this in winter. It can be a mild, Spring day up the mountain, but the flood plain down at 800m can be covered in a thick frost all day long. Very little sun too.
Remind me why I'm thinking about buying a house down there? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I refused bookings for any earlier than the 2nd week in december for my apartment in VT to avoid people turning up and blaming me for no snow.
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On the bright side there are no post from people worrying about the snow that's there melting before they get there 
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stanton, I'm ignoring your posts on weather on principle - frequently over the last few years you have assured us that going skiing was a waste of time as there would be nothing to ski on.
Have been skiing on each occassion
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Remind me why I'm thinking about buying a house down there?
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pam w, ...can everyone please look down the back of their sofas....it's got to be somewhere....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Glacier skiing was operating in Laax last weekend - pretty busy too
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| -0.6C per 100m btw. |
Ah right. In that case the temperature 2km higher up was probably only b*stard cold.
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There's an interesting article (in German) from wetteronline.de here, giving details of previous Novembers with little snow (particularly with reference to the Zugspitze). It seems that 1983 was the most recent similar period. But then a metre of new snow arrived around the end of November, within about four days (there's a chart in the article showing snow depth over the month).
Before that 1953 and 1948 were the poorest years for early snow. Then snow only arrived after the middle of December. Seemingly the Zugspitze needs at least half a metre of snowfall before the end of this month if it isn't going "beat" the 1953 figures.
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You know it makes sense.
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A distinct temp inversion around my neck of the alps too in Austria. There's been continuous frost lower down in the shade for 4 or 5 days now whilst higher up it's been +5 or more .Snow making has been ongoing for several days now but only below about 1100m. My local hill has had one slope open for a few weeks now thanks to getting some man made down a in the last cold snap. Looks like soon we could have piste open at the bottom of the hills, one at the top and green grass in between. This link has a pretty good chat about inversions http://blog.skialpine.com/2008/12/01/2-experts-demystify-temperature-inversions/
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| -0.6C per 100m btw. |
That's not right either. A minimum 0.5 and a maximum 1.0 per 100m, depending on the moisture levels. This ignores other factors that will affect the real-world which means that the rule-of-thumb is just exactly that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapse_rate
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well according to our lead advertisers Inghams it's now only 13 days and change to the start of the ski season. .
More seriously I expect that there are a number in the industry for whom a poor Xmas/New Year would accelerate the end as it's tough to recover a public perception that it's a decent snow year after that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Ah right. In that case the temperature 2km higher up was probably only b*stard cold.
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No, it was unfortunately rather warm. Read the link posted by waynos about inversion.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Going to Les Arcs for 10th December. Trying to stay optimistic, need to remind myself a lot can happen in three weeks, but the predicted onset of high pressure is unnerving. In a weeks time it'll start getting towards squeaky bum time if snow isn't even at least forecasted.
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waynos, do you think I should pack my walking boots when I come out to Schladming on the 16th?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| fatbob wrote: |
More seriously I expect that there are a number in the industry for whom a poor Xmas/New Year would accelerate the end as it's tough to recover a public perception that it's a decent snow year after that. |
All it takes is a few photos of people standing on their skis in the mud at a low altitude resort and suddenly people just don't spend a lot of money on a ski trip and do something else instead.
Interesting that we have a space on our VT trip 9th Dec, a few weeks ago we had more people than we could take wanting to book on, I've not had anyone contact me since the space came up and was advertised. People are not booking early season trips right now.
But then all it takes is one big dump of snow over the next couple of weeks and all will be forgotten.
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The model previously highlighted by Samerberg Sue is still showing precipitation in about a week's time - but seemingly only over the western end of the Alps . At least it might be a start eh?
http://www.meteox.com/forecastloop.aspx?type=1
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Dr John, 16th Dec? I'm sure it will be fine by then, that's a whole month away yet. The snow machines are slowly get a white covering down, mainly lower down at the moment. There's one lift / piste already open (in it's self very very limited skiing but at least a sign), there's Dachstein glacier (ski amade pass) and further away Kitzstinhorn / Kaprun glacier (on the salzburg superpass) Walking boots? Well there's some very nice winter wanderwegs with or without schnee.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Ah right. In that case the temperature 2km higher up was probably only b*stard cold.
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No, it was unfortunately rather warm. Read the link posted by waynos about inversion. |
It can't have been. 2500 is much higher than where I am.
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waynos, cool, cheers. I'm not overly worried about Schladming because, as you say, there are plenty of options nearby. I'm more concerned about general coverage over PdS, where my mate has a chalet this season and I'm booked in for 2 separate weeks, Jan and late March.
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FAQ
