 Poster: A snowHead
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holidayloverxx, Royale in Deux-Lacs was 14€ so obviously not there. We also paid 14€ in town for a Margerita a couple of years ago. Anything more elaborate was around 20€. In Serre Chevalier, the more expensive ones (with foie gras and smoked duck) were 14€.
We did notice (but didn't eat them) that the price of the Knife and Fork flip-flops had been reduced to 6,50 from 7,50 since last year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had an excellent pizza (Chorizo I think) at Chalet Toura in L2A a couple of weeks ago for 12€, in fact my daughter and me shared it along with a huge plate of chips, 5€, for lunch.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Monium, good to know, when I was in VT for the EOSB we paid 16€ for a not bad pizza in town. Where did you get your 11€ pizza on the slopes? The one I refer to was the Miason Vieille just below the nursery slopes in Courmayeur, if anyone's wondering 
moffatross, I see what you're saying, but 1) I was referring to "on-mountain" prices and 2) some villages *are* traditional artisan villages, while others are purpose built and thus less steeped in tradition
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supply and demand
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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To talk pizza prices: In La Toussuire, on a resturant terrass by the nursery slopes, from 6euro (kids pizza) to 12euro for the most expensive luxury one. and to eat " Plate de Jour" 11euro50cent including a beer, and its was excelent and very good service to, France is so expensive 
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Skiing is an expensive sport (in general). The top resorts (everywhere) charge huge prices because people will pay for it. Nickski, has it absolutely right. Also people commenting that we (generally referring to the Brits) will simply not go may not concern resorts too much....there are plenty of people taking up skiing from other countries who don't object to the prices. Just look at Courchevel....
Swiss franc trading today at 1.43 to the pound.....not sure I'll be venturing back to Zermatt next season unless the franc falls substantially. 1.55 in January was bad enough. The interesting comparison there was that Cervinia was substantially better value (both in terms of buying the same 'area' lift pass and for on mountain eating).
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Lizzard,
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There's a point of view effect going on here - when you're selling it's what the market will stand and legitimate business practice.
When you're the one being asked to pay, suddenly it's a rip-off.
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Spot on Lizzard. Sad but true. So, on the home front, all snowheads who charge what the market will stand hang your heads in shame.......anyone want to own up? 
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I could wonder why you're all wasting time stuffing your faces at a time when the lifts are running. 
However, if you have a budget for lunch and you don't want to pay what you consider to be unreasonable prices, I suggest you look at the menu board before you go in. Every restaurant is legally obliged to display a basic tariff listing the prices of certain of its beverages and at least the plat du jour. If there's no price list, go somewhere else. If you don't like the prices you see, go somewhere else. Don't employ Wayne's technique of paying in excess of 30€ for a snack and then whining about it afterwards. If you all indicate your disapproval of the rates charged in the traditional way (ie by not paying them) then either prices will come down, the product on offer will change or restaurant owners will decide to pack up and push off elsewhere.
But don't drone on about how 'France' is expensive when you're only skiing the high-status premium resorts. There is, as several people have pointed out, a lot more to French skiing than the 3V and the Espace Killy. Behave like a sheep and you're likely to get fleeced. Anywhere.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The tipping point may not be very far away. The reduction in tax in France a season or two is a case in point. The fact that some establishments didn't pass this reduction onto the customers speaks volumes, and we would't eat in a restaurant that didn't display the "we pass the tax saving to our customers" sign thingy as a result (this was in the 3V). Across the board the % of British visitors to French Alps has reduced (according to some research I read a couple of months ago), and apparently there have been many discussions between the TO's, Lift companies and local businesses to sort out the situation but to no avail (again, this was in the 3V). I seem to remember a uniform price for beer was mooted, but rejected.
My point (if there is one) is that it isn't the case of a few people moaning about high prices, but it's a very real issue that has been identified by all sectors of the skiing industry, and solutions have been investigated, but local short term interests still hold sway over longer term sustainability. The pendulum swung from Austria to France in the 80's due to high prices in Austria and massive investment in France. The pendulum looks like it may swing back again due to greed in France and massive investment in Austria.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 3-05-11 9:42; edited 1 time in total
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Frankly 250 roubles for a pint is f*ck all
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That's exactly the point......I paid £9 for a half pint in Moscow last year and somewhere around £200 for an ok bottle of wine and two burgers. Compared to that the Alps are cheap 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| .......I seem to remember a uniform price for beer was mooted, but rejected. .... |
It would be illegal under EU competition law
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| Agreements are almost always illegal if the participants agree to: fix prices.... |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, where there's a will there's a way. Of the 4 exemptions in your link, 3 are directly applicable to the subject in discussion:
But an agreement may be allowed if it:
- has more positive than negative effects
- is not concluded between competitors
- involves companies with only a small combined share of the market
- is necessary to improve products or services, develop new products or find new and better ways of making products available to consumers.
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Lizzard,
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look at the menu board before you go in
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thought you said the voice of reason thing wouldn't work. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Dr John, I can't see it would get through. I've been a bit involved with EU competition law and taken legal advice on it in matters to do with work. Of course, each case could be contested on its own merits - but it would be hard to justify a beer price fixing cartel, I think.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles, perhaps not, but it would be nice to see them try something. I'm not convinced there isn't a cartel running to keep the prices high, a cartel to keep the prices down might be viewed in a different light.
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Poster: A snowHead
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not sure that an agreement to fix beer prices amongst a few bars in the alps would find its way to top of the competition commission's priorities list
going back to the pizza price thing, what price do people think is reasonable? pizza express charge at least £8 in one of their restaurants and they don't have to transport the ingredients half way up a mountain
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, French law should already encompass the relevant European competition directives. Pizza prices are high because customers are prepared to pay high prices. I remember discussing the point with an Alpine resort restaurant owner - he loved pizzas because of the profit margin on them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Pizza prices are high because customers are prepared to pay high prices.
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just that,, the resort that have the highest prices is the resort where the most Brittish and scandinavian skier travel to, so not complain about the price, pay or go somewhere else,,
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achilles, indeed, and on soft drinks. If you see a restaurant owner serving someone with a pizza, salad and large coke/fanta, you'll know exactly why they have a large grin all over their face.
Best value meal in a French mountain restaurant, buy a long way, is the plat du jour and a glass/caraffe/bottle of the house plonk.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Arno, French law should already encompass the relevant European competition directives. |
of course but is anyone really going to care enough to enforce it?
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going back to the pizza price thing, what price do people think is reasonable?
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How can anyone on here make a sensible judgement on that? Given that they don't know:
- cost of raw materials
- transport cost in an Alpine situation
- staff overheads in France
- utility cost up a mountain (I can tell you now that water costs twice what it does in the valley)
- rent on a mountain restaurant
- French business taxes
- etc.
All people can tell you is how much they want to pay, which doesn't actually have anything to do with what a business needs to charge. And no doubt it's true that they make a packet on pizza and soft drinks, but the margin on (for example) steak tartare will be less. You need to know what they're making overall before you can judge whether or not the pizza price is reasonable.
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| Dr John wrote: |
achilles, indeed, and on soft drinks. If you see a restaurant owner serving someone with a pizza, salad and large coke/fanta, you'll know exactly why they have a large grin all over their face.
Best value meal in a French mountain restaurant, buy a long way, is the plat du jour and a glass/caraffe/bottle of the house plonk. |
Spot on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Dr John wrote: |
achilles, indeed, and on soft drinks. If you see a restaurant owner serving someone with a pizza, salad and large coke/fanta, you'll know exactly why they have a large grin all over their face.
Best value meal in a French mountain restaurant, buy a long way, is the plat du jour and a glass/caraffe/bottle of the house plonk. |
Spot on. |
Hurtle you are slipping. No mention of the spelling mistake.
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No mention of the spelling mistake.
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Either of them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lizzard, i was looking for a subjective view really - I don't think EUR 12-14 is too bad for a decent pizza in a slopeside restaurant, provided that the service is decent and it's a pleasant place. I have no idea what that costs to provide and I don't really care TBH. i look at it in the context of what i would pay for something similar at home.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Latchico, you haven't been paying attention. It's rude to pick up on innocent spelling mistakes, and Hurtle isn't rude. Sometimes people do ask for it (especially if the spelling mistake is in a post complaining about poor English ). Fair game, then.
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| Monium wrote: |
It was downstairs in the knife and fork. They had a bar with pizza oven, proper hot stone jobbie. It was quick, convenient, and good. No idea why everyone else was upstairs eating those sandwiches for £6.50 when they had pizza downstairs for just a little bit more  |
Aah - I had heard good reports of the K&F pizza place - I never buy food at the K&F as the staff are a surly lot; I'd rather pay the 14e elsewhere. I wouldn't buy coffee either if it wasn't the meeting point.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Latchico, you haven't been paying attention. It's rude to pick up on innocent spelling mistakes, and Hurtle isn't rude. Sometimes people do ask for it (especially if the spelling mistake is in a post complaining about poor English ). Fair game, then. |
When was this decided?
Was I on holiday at the time?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| The tipping point may not be very far away. |
I think we all understand "supply and demand" and "what the market will stand", but the whole deal is knowing where the tipping point is. Due to the inertia of the effect it will probably take several years before the full extent is known, and then, for a few years, it will be too late. But as the whole cyclical thing goes around, it will restore itself, evetually.
From a Brit point of view, the whole economic situation here has undoubtedly hastened the effect, has has the exchange rate (although a similar collapse has occured as regards the Ca$, and though people comment, grumble even, not many complain of being ripped off).
And replacing Brit punters with others may not be the complete answer, either, having spent three weeks in each of the last six years seeing that happen first hand in southern Goa, and hearing the comments of local businesses.
What would be interesting would be some kind of straw pool as to why people are turning away from France, if indeed that's what's happening.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Val d'Isere this year:
Beer (pint) about 7 Euros
Spag Bol: 12-16 Euros
Going for a pee 50c-1Euro (And this in toilets I wouldn't force my mother in law to use!)
Mayrhofen this year:
Beer (Pint) About 3.50 Euro
Spag Bol 6-8 Euros
Going for a Pee Free (And that in every restauarnt I went into in a spotless, warm, and sometimes quite arty, toilet) Special commendations for the Scneekar Hutte's loos (as usual), Vogel Nest and Hohenhaus Tenne, but really, they were all fine.
Skiing a a family of four I can't afford to spend upwards of sixty quid on lunch (well, I certainly don't want too) every day, and my ideal lunch is not a slice o pizza and a coke in the vilalge (which we did a few times). It definitely detracts from the whole experience, Austria seems to be able to have decent sized resorts with modern infrastructure and keep prices reasonable. Why can't France? (I know the answer, it's not that they can't, it's the fact that they can charge what they do). I'm avoiding France for a while, until my wallet recovers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ghost Dog, U compare the most expensive resort in france with a medium costs resort in Austria is that fair?
La Toussiure this season
Beer (pint) 3 Euro
Spag Bol: 6-7 Euro
Going for a pee: Free
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agree re the loos - in Saalbach recently, they had fantistically claen, free and modern public loos on the mountain. Compare and contrast with those in France... my daugther thought she had inadvertetnly gone into the Mens' when faced with one of those holes in the ground recently in Val Thorens.
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freeheelskier, no he has compared two resorts that figure highly in British Tour Operators brochures. Ask most one-week holiday skiers in the UK for the name of a resort in France and one in Austria - odds are that they will come up with those two.
Read the whole thread and you will see why!
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Samerberg Sue, Thats not the point, sorry but U have wrong, U can´t compare this two resorts, but to compare Val d´Isere with St Anton its more OK,,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Samerberg Sue, that doesn't mean that Val d'I is a perfect representation of "France" any more than Mayrhofen is a perfect representation of "Austria". You could just as easily contrast between Val d'I and a nice french resort with 150km or so of pistes like, say, La Troussiere, or between La Troussiere and an elite Austrian resort like St Anton
most brochures will describe Val d'I as one of the world's leading resorts. how many would describe Mayrhofen as such*? why on earth do people expect one of the world's leading resorts to be cheap? how many people are surprised when they have something to eat by the harbour in St Tropez and it costs miles more than it would somewhere less glitzy?
*not hating on Mayrhofen. I've never been but would probably prefer it to Val d'Isere in many respects
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Arno, I' was just pointing out that the comparison was not as so wrong as FHS was stating - the average punter would be comparing "like with like" as far as they are concerned.
You seem to be forgetting that this is a forum for people who mainly know quite a lot about skiing and ski resorts - the average Joe who picks their holiday out on price and height blah blah blah from a TO's brochure takes everything at face value. I was neither supporting nor denying the original concept of this thread.
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FAQ
pay staff, rents etc