Skiing without supervision on school trips.

A snowHead

I could certainly make a generalisation that no children should ever ski on their own on a school trip: that is a matter of opinion. I could not make a generalisation that no school ever does allow pupils to ski on their own: I do not have access to that sort of information. But then I haven't said that.

My reaction - unfortunately a bit of an exasperated over-reaction - was to the statement "There is no reason why a school party couldn't permit a group of older/experienced students to go off on their own, especially if they are adults in their own right" when many posters in the thread had indeed given many reasons. We could have done without my regrettable exasperation which is why my reply to Multijoy started with a "Sorry", which I am happy to repeat. I normally discuss things more politely and there are plenty areas of agreement.

The appeal judgement in the Woodbridge/Chittock case seems to have been based on the fact that the boy was on-piste at the time of the accident rather on any judgement as to whether he should have been denied skiing, but it is clear this is one instance where a school has agreed to allow pupils to ski on their own. But I can't help marvelling at the idea that parents should try to blame the school for their son being irresponsible. Now whose responsibilty is it in the first instance to make a youngster responsible?

6) WOODBRIDGE SCHOOL V SIMON PAUL CHITTOCK, ORIGINAL HEARING BY JUDGE LEVESON, 25 JULY 2001, APPEAL COURT HEARING 13/14 JUNE 2002

Six years ago Woodbridge School permitted three senior boys to join junior pupils on a ski trip. It did so on terms agreed with parents and purely as a favour to the three boys. The boys, while under overall control of the supervising teacher and his colleagues as to their conduct on the trip, were to be permitted to ski unsupervised on all the slopes at Kuhtai and as they were older than the other pupils were to be treated as such. But they were to remember they were representatives of the school and expected to behave as such. The parents agreed to these conditions.
Simon Paul Chittock one of the 16 year-old senior boys on the school trip behaved so badly on the ski slope that he had to be repeatedly reproved by the teachers who were giving their time to escort him. Twice he skied off-piste. Finally he had a serious accident and broke his back. The parents sued the school and won the case in the lower courts, on the grounds that their son should have been prevented from skiing once he proved irresponsible. This would have meant either leaving him unsupervised in the resort or an instructor staying with him, denying other youngsters the opportunity to ski.
This case was overturned on Appeal but not because the higher court denied the premise that Chittock should have been left at the hotel. The grounds for the appeal were that he was on-piste, skiing normally when the accident happened.

[http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmconst/754/754we26.htm]

A snowHead

There's no reason why skiing with supervision would be boring either. One of the best school trips I went on (12 years ago now!) had us snowboarding in a group of three plus an instructor after an epic snowfall in Les Deux Alpes. We spent an awesome week off-piste and learnt a hell of a lot in the process. Granted it was probably a bit more of a unique situation as few people in my school had any experience on a snowboard at that time so perhaps we got lucky. Even still there should be some effort made to incorporate skilled skiers/boarders who naturally are going to be bored cruising pistes.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I went to an independent school. Attached to the school was a Scout Troop. The Troop was run by former pupils (who had been running it for decades, they were no foolish youngsters) but it was an official school activity even though no schoolmaster was involved. We used to go to summer camp for a fortnight during which we might go off on our own as a group of two or three for two to three days hiking; we swam in rivers; we built dangerous pioneering structures; we cooked on open fires; we felled dead trees of considerable size in order to provide the wood. I don't think anybody ever broke anything, I recall two hospital incidents from burns (I was one of them). My parents' reaction was that I had been foolish; I probably had.

I doubt the school knew what went on (all within the last 10 to 20 years); I certainly doubt it would happen today. What a shame for the children; what happened to self reliance?

I firmly believe children SHOULD be allowed to go skiing on their own on a school trip. If you protect them from making decisions until the day they leave school then:

1. They'll get their kicks somewhere, and that's likely to be less healthy than skiing/camping/building fires - possibly drugs/alcohol?
2. At some point they'll go to university and will be completely unable to fend for themselves.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

The problem, as some have alluded to, is one of litigation. I'm not a lawyer but I wonder how far a claim is allowed to go in law i.e once the insurance limit runs out (and it could) do they go to the group supervisor (and sue him/her)? If so, who would want to be that supervisor? Unfortunately, that's what it's about.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

What a shame for the children; what happened to self reliance?

Most parents stopped it developing in their children, it seems.

Isn't it a parental responsibility to encourage self reliance rather than the schools?

My kids are self reliant because we encouraged them rather than leave that responsibility to someone else. Very Happy

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Blimey this thread is still going, read the first couple of pages a while back and then noticed people were starting to repeat themselves and it was all getting rather boring!

I have but one thing to say, and this is to all those arguing (some bordering on demanding) that schools let kids ski on their own etc., rather than understanding the position and leaving it there (and yeah I'll shout it Evil or Very Mad

):

READING THIS THREAD MAKES ME VERY GLAD I NEVER EVER DECIDED TO TAKE A SCHOOL GROUP SKIING AND IS A GOOD REASON WHY I NEVER WOULD (even if staying in education) - IF I EVER MEET ANYONE CONTEMPLATING IT I'LL POINT THEM IN THIS DIRECTION SO THEY CAN SEE WHAT THEY MIGHT BE LETTING THEMSELVES IN FOR!

'nuff said - I'm not entering into an argument about it but perhaps some demanding folk need to take a deep breath, STFU and leave it to the professionals to decide whether they want to *volunteer* to put their careers on the line!

Cheers!

roga,+1. I accompanied a group of students on a ski trip in 1986 and thoroughly enjoyed it (especially since it was free for me) but I wouldn't do it now. I also used to take them to a dry slope and, in effect, introduced several people to my favourite activity. I'd even worry about doing that now and there's no off-piste on a dry-slope of course.....

Help!!

Skiing without supervision on school trips.

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