 Poster: A snowHead
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| boabski wrote: |
| just to draw a line under this |
Ooh, dangerous.
I was starting to wonder how long it would be before every thread in this forum was about tyres. Then it only takes someone to go from this forum to another one without washing their hands....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, it's ok I'm not naiive enough to think that the discussion on winter tyres will stop 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Too late! I just went to the Piste forum and the infection has already spread. We are doomed!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"if they can't carry their kit, they're not old enough to ski"
What kind of defeatist nonsense is that? My daughter at age four struggled to carry her skis and a helmet (amd sometimes pole) didn't stop her enjoying her skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sidneyreilly wrote: |
| If you are involved in an accident and you do not have the correct tyres / chains fitted then regardless of anything else - THE ACCIDENT IS YOUR FAULT. The fines are also very very high |
Correct & the Fines are VERY HIGH. High Fines also apply to other non-compliance to motoring regulations i.e Vignette, spare lights, visible vests for all passengers. DUI, speeding.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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stanton,
Are the Austrian police particularly active near St Anton? Got done once in one summer for not carrying a Vignette and overtaking in a construction zone when I was on a motorbike. My mate who followed me got done too. Elsewhere I seldom run into them.
In France I was told the Gerdames' main interest is the section of the toll motorway between Calais and Paris where a killing can be made on the inexperienced UK drivers.
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| saikee wrote: |
| Are the Austrian police particularly active near St Anton? |
Yes all along the Autobahn from Bregenz to Innsbruck especially tunnel egress's, weekends after skiing on resort access roads.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Comparing with Swiss vignette and the French/Italian motorway tolls I think the Austrian vignette is "very" reasonable and fair.
I recommend drivers entering the Austria to get the vignette from the first service. I could be wrong but with decency I expect the Austrian police not to slap fines on drivers before they have the first opportunity to purchase a vignette after passing an Austrian border.
AFAIK driving on non-motorway a vignette is not required. I was once instructed by a Zell am See hotel owner how to avoid the motorways and hence the vignette by taking minor roads.
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saikee, best to get it in the last service before the border. I think some sections from the border to 1st exit (eg Kufstein) require vignette, but others may not. If you have to stop, it's easier to stop at a German services than pull off at 1st junction and try to find an open petrol station etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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andy,
I am not referring to the most convenient place to get the Austrian vignette but what would be the acceptable practice.
In UK if a car has no MOT certificate the driver should not be done by if he can show document or appointment implying he/she is just taking the vehicle for a MOT centre.
By the same token if an foreign driver suddenly decides to enter Austria, say he just misses the last German service, and makes his/her way to the first nearest place where the vignette is sold then the driver is not really disobeying the law. However if a driver passes several services after enter the Austria border, say he/she is almost near Innsbruck, then it would be hard to explain why he didn't get the vignette earlier.
Thus my question is does the Austrian law permit a foreigner driving on a borderless autobahn on entering Austrian soil to purchase the vignette at the first service he can stop or must he have the vignette before entering the Austrian soil?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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For the benefit of the OP it is possible to ski in Austria and not have to use an Autobahn and therefore avoid purchasing a vignette. Just make sure you cross the border between Siegsdorf and Lofer and then the Pinzgau valley, the Hochkoenig or the Gasteinertal can be reached using routes that are not Autobahns but still quick routes with no detours. Even Kitzbuehel and others around there are accessible albeit they would be something of a detour.
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| robboj wrote: |
| Even Kitzbuehel and others around there are accessible albeit they would be something of a detour. |
Actually, there's no problem with Kitzbühel, Skiwelt, St. Johann, etc., for you are allowed to drive on the Inntal autobahn until the Kufstein Süd (Kufstein south, just past Kufstein) exit without the vignette. I.e., you can take the direct route (you might also drive this way to the Ski Amadé resorts, rather than going through Lofer; I don't know which is shorter).
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 28-09-09 18:21; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| saikee wrote: |
Thus my question is does the Austrian law permit a foreigner driving on a borderless autobahn on entering Austrian soil to purchase the vignette at the first service he can stop or must he have the vignette before entering the Austrian soil? |
The vignette is for sale at most, if not all of the service areas approaching the Austrian border so there is NO leniency whatsoever. The only place you are allowed to drive on the autobahn without a vignette is from Kiefersfelden (Germany on the A93) to the exit at Kufstein-Süd (A12 Inntal Autobahn) (Andy you got it the wrong way round!) . This allows the traffic for the Kitzbühel and Ski Welt areas to access the main road to the resorts at no cost and keeps them out of Küfstein itself. Alternatively you can exit the A93 at Oberaudorf or Kiefersfelden and follow the main road (very windy and twisty with little or no chance to overtake) to pick up the main Bundestrasse on the other side of Kufstein. But traffic crawls through Küfstein at the best of times, let alone on a change-over day in winter!
If you enter the autobahn or Schnellstrasse system without one then ignorance is no excuse as far as the police are concerned. There are warning signs on the approach roads in English! The police have cameras set up to monitor cars for the vignette at most of the major motorway border crossings - the one for the Kufstein is in the overhead gantry shortly after the Kufstein-Süd exit. At Walserberg (Salzburg) they are roadside and overhead gantry mounted. The fines are on the spot and are recorded, so repeat offenders pay more and more each time they get caught. The police monitor the colour and hologram. It is a nice little earner for them.
Either you buy a vignette and use the autobahns etc without a care other than the speed cameras, or you pick a route which avoids all motorways AND dual carriageways as a lot of the dual carriageways are "Schnellstrasse" and therefore toll roads (Maut pflichtig).
Sue
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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About time the UK had a vignette for foreign vehicles
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Poster: A snowHead
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JT, all users of the Austrian system whether they are locals or visitors have to have a vignette. So do you really want all the motorways and dual carriageways as toll roads? Same goes for most other places I believe. I have an annual one - costs about €74.50. I think it has only gone up a little since they were first introduced. Is the €7.50 for 10 days so expensive in comparison to your holiday expenses that it becomes a deal breaker?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue, is there a 'road tax' in Austria as well as these vignette thingamejigs ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Samerberg Sue, no, I pay a road tax..as rayscoops says..
Foreign vehicles..inc lorries can pay a supplemantary road tax disk at the port or tunnel...and we can call it a vignette if you like.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You're not comparing like with like. In places like France there's no need to use the toll roads - there's always an alternative. If the UK had a system of high quality toll roads then both locals and vistors could choose whether to use them. Taxpayers in France and Austria pay for all the ordinary roads just like taxpayers do here.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
rayscoops, great photos.
Kel, I'm exactly the same as you...want to go to Austria to save some money but I look at all the piste maps in the ski brochures and cant see one that really jumps out at me.
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If you’re looking for a resort in Austria that can compete with the High Altitude and sheer extent of some France's mega resorts, then Ischgl fits the bill. The top lift is at around 2800 meters and id be amazed if you can ski out all of the 220km of pistes on offer in a Week!!!
I like what France and Austria have to offer, they offer a entirely different ski holiday in my opinion. When I did weekly holidays (Im currently addicted to seasons!  ) I did a week in France in January and a week in Austria in March when I knew where was good in the country for snow! This formula always worked a treat for me! But one of the great things for me when being in Austria was that you actually felt that you were in a different country and not in the Kings Road in Fulham!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
But one of the great things for me when being in Austria was that you actually felt that you were in a different country and not in the Kings Road in Fulham!
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Here we go again. Apples and pears. Only a handful of French resorts - all easily avoided - are full of Brits. I'll bet you hear vastly more English spoken in St Anton than you do in Notre Dame de Bellecombe.
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rayscoops, JT, I pay a road tax and an environmental impact supplement as well. My current road tax is about 300 Euros for a Yaris Verso Diesel 1.4 -not exactly a heavyweight by any means!
JT, I think you are missing the point here - the laws are made in Austria, France, Switzerland or Italy where the governments have decided that tolls are a good way of generating income for roads. Either you go along with them and pay the going rates that all users have to pay or you decide to use non-toll roads instead. It is feasible but you have to factor in more travelling time naturally. No one is forcing you to pay for a vignette or to use any of the toll roads in Europe. Your taxes support your road system, ours support our road network. The motorways are administered by a company operating on behalf of the government to generate extra income and to help relieve the traffic burden on some communities. Simple as that!
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Samerberg Sue, and a very good scheme it is, too. The quicker something like that is done in the UK, the better. People who want to travel far and fast can pay extra and be on less congested roads, those happy to tootle along can do so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, but the OP said ' .....Looking to book a week mid March for family hols. Everyone tell's me how wonderful Austria is, trouble is when I start doing my research, I look at the Piste map too small, Hotel 200 yds from the bus stop , top station 2200 M etc etc..... I am the kind of skier who likes to clock up the miles, which I know some of you will find mundane, but not me ... somewhere that the conditions are still likely to be good in March. Les Arcs is probably my fauvorite area....''
I have never been to Notre Dame de Bellecombe and it looks beautiful and I will try to get there some time, but - the highest lift at NDdB is barely above 2000m and the resort is located at 1000m, the entire region has 150 km of piste spread over a handfull of resorts and that does not meet the brief of the OP. No one is knocking places like Notre Dame de Bellecombe, they are simply comparing apples with apples and giving examples of how Austria can compare with the Mega French resorts (because the OP requested details in comparison to Les Arcs) but with out feeling you are in little England.
Yes there are nice resorts in France that do not seem like 'Surrey with snow', but you have not really provided an example of a French resort with something like 200 km of piste up to 3000 M which is not full of Brits ! If it exists please tell me and suggest it, because I will be there in a flash
Unfortunately the 'handful of French resorts (that are) full of Brits' are the ones that fullfiil the OP brief and those regions probably represents half the sking in France
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Samerberg Sue, just wondering, I have no idea what the system is and have never driven in mainland Europe
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OK, I was reacting to someone saying when you go to Austria you feel you're abroad, but in France you're surrounded by Brits. That's not necessarily the case. As for extensive pistes, many Austrian resorts (possibly most of them?) have considerably less lift-linked skiing than the Espace Diamant. Your figures are wrong. The Espace Diamant has 185km of lift-linked skiing and if you want to look at the "entire region" you'd have to include Megeve which has over 300km more. The Espace Diamant and Megeve are not lift linked but there's only a few miles between them. 5 or 10 minutes in a bus.
You're right of course that the altitude is lower than the top of the mega resorts but a lot of the skiing in the mega resorts is not particularly high. And according to Meteo France the Beaufortain has better snow depths than the Tarentaise at the same altitude. Many Austrian resorts without high altitude skiing also do very well for snow. Being an altitude junkie really restricts your scope.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Samerberg Sue,
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About time the UK had a vignette for foreign vehicles
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my point was that IMV, foreign vehicles should pay to use our roads. When I go abroad I have to pay to use some roads in a tax... call it a vignette or tolls or whatever. When foreign vehicles come here they use our roads for free...which I can't ...so I think they should pay a supplement to use our roads.
apply it to motorways only if you want, or don't, I don't care,
Back to the OP... not fussed with Austria atm as the euro rate is terrible, ditto for France, Switzerland is far better value, IMV.
Having said that, I have a couple of places to spec in Italy and Austria in the future....
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JT, thats not going to encourage Europeanes going on holiday in the UK? by keeping these low surely with a favourable pound for their euro its going to encourage because if they want to take their car have to cross the channel, which isn't cheap.
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You know it makes sense.
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I can't think of any country anywhere which charges more for foreigners to use their roads - mostly it's the other way round. Local taxpayers pay for the roads which foreigners use "free". And as Christopher says, for the UK to start a trend would do nothing for our (important) tourist industry. I don't know why people make such a fuss about the Swiss and Austrian vignettes which are a super bargain compared to the French tolls. It's easy to avoid paying all of them - just take the low road, see the country and stop grumbling.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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at 27€ (or whatever the cost) for a year in Switzerland, or about 7€ for a week in austria, the vignette is just "noise" on the cost of a trip there. Unlike a trip to the French Alps which would be 60€? (one way or each way?). Slovenia is a bit odd in that it set up tollbooths, then swapped to Vignettes (for cars only?), so you just drive thru an open barrier. Think they've swapped from 6monthly vignette to "Austrian style" now?
UK is much more likely to implement a really expensive complicated system of road pricing for everyone, based on something similar to the Toll Collect system in Germany for Trucks. Loads of gantries with cameras and transponders to measure the number of autobahn sectors travelled. UK govt & computer systems do not mix, regardless of party in power. I'm sure they're already in talks with the company that supplied the Toll Collect technology.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Christopher, Living and working near the channel, the vast majority of users of the tunnel and ferry are british cars either going out or coming back. The ratio is probably around 10:1 at a rough count.
Lorries are a different story but I understand a British lorry will pay a lot of tax that a foreign one will not..that is why they shift more of our goods, IMO. Ask our hauliers how fair that might be as they have costs that others don't..
A vignette might address this to a degree
I have no problem paying local 'taxes' and other nationals can do the same when driving here, AFAIAC..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| espri wrote: |
| robboj wrote: |
| Even Kitzbuehel and others around there are accessible albeit they would be something of a detour. |
Actually, there's no problem with Kitzbühel, Skiwelt, St. Johann, etc., for you are allowed to drive on the Inntal autobahn until the Kufstein Süd (Kufstein south, just past Kufstein) exit without the vignette. I.e., you can take the direct route (you might also drive this way to the Ski Amadé resorts, rather than going through Lofer; I don't know which is shorter). |
Thanks for that, didn't know that was the case. I go to ZamS and both AA and RAC routeplanners take you to Siegsdorf and into Austria at Lofer from Munich as do about three different Satnav's I have used in the past. Had to get a taxi from Munich once and he went via Kufstein and St Johann, which suggests that is the local knowledge of the quickest way?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops,
As I am the punter,I must tell You, that you have me spot on. Spent 11 days in Valloire between Xmas and New Year. The reason I went there was because I was becoming tired of the Ski factories and their absolutely extortinate prices, which I visited extensively over the years. The problem is, as charming as Valloire was, the terrain just didn't do it for me. It's meant to be 150km, but it felt like I covered every piste, every day, which BTW I know I couldn't have.
I went to Les Menuires 4 weeks later on a boys trip and the skiing was absolutely fantastic, as I knew it would be from previous experience. The problem we have here is the Apres, I am 44 for Gods sake and want something that these type of places don't seem to offer. I found myselt in the Yetti bar at about 11:00 one night. I turned round to my room mate and in unison we both said "What the bloody hell are we doing here". This was in great contrast to being in the Irish bar in Valloire on New Years with my wife and kids (young men actually) when we walked in we doubled the amount of punters to 8, on New Years Eve !!.
Like I said I think you have me spot on and I think the Austrian resorts are going to be like Valloire, but I am going to give it a go next year. I am planning a road trip around mid March, havent decided where yet though St Anton is looking favourite at the moment if I can find accomadation at the right money.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And going off the thread and picking up on the road pricing structure, we have to pay typically €130 for a return trip. This is in stark contrast to what was happening here a few years ago. A foreign haulage company was operating in the UK and was legally (apparently) re-fuelling it's own vehicles with Euro-zone diesel from a tanker situated near the A1. I know some of you will think bull$hit, but it isn't I saw it myself sevearal times and our truckers eventually formed a blockade around the tanker and rightly so.
Could only happen in Blighty 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| JT wrote: |
Samerberg Sue,
| Quote: |
About time the UK had a vignette for foreign vehicles
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my point was that IMV, foreign vehicles should pay to use our roads. When I go abroad I have to pay to use some roads in a tax... call it a vignette or tolls or whatever. When foreign vehicles come here they use our roads for free...which I can't ...so I think they should pay a supplement to use our roads.
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We already have some road tolls in this country, and I am sure tey will spread.
At teh moment they are mainly for river crossings (Severn, Humber, Dartford, etc.), but there is also the M6 Toll section.
If you want to use those roads, you pay a toll, whether you are local or foreign.
The same applies to most motorways in many European countries. If you want to use those specific roads, then you pay a toll, whether local or foreign. You can drive in those countries without using the toll roads, just as you can drive in the UK without using the toll roads.
OK, most of the countries with tolls have more motorways with them than we do, but that is just a matter of degree.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
pam w, Austria seems on the whole very much like the area that Notre Dame de Bellecombe sits in with lots of lower, smaller and linked 'non Brit' resorts, but it also has resorts that are higher if that is what the punter wants. My main worry about heading to a French region (trying to avoid the Brit crowds) whereby the skiing is from 1000 - 2000 meters (especially early or late in the season) is that for the 4 or 5 days I am there that the snow will be a bit dodgy and for that reason I have tended to head for higher resorts (L2A, AdH, Saas Fee, Verbier, Arosa) or the equivalnet Austrian resort like Saalbach/Hinterglemm or St Anton. I was very surprised and impressed by the PDS region (which is not high but quite a bit of it is above 2000 M if I remember correctly) and really enjoyed nipping from resort to resort and in some ways this again is a bit like Austria, so maybe I should have a look at Notre Dame de Bellecombe and the surrounding area because it looks a beautiful area  I just worry about the snow |
Don't know about your plan. But for the OP, who's planning a trip in March, dodgy snow is NOT going to be much of a concern. December, yes. March, not really.
Of course, you can get really unlucky and there's no snow even in Feburary! But it could also happen that it snow all week and you can't see your hand in front of you in those snow-sure high alpine resorts.
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Austrian Vignette Tip
If your going for two week trip. They will sell you a 2 month vignette.
It is much cheaper to buy two 10 day Vignette,s
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stanton, good post... not that the overall price is the deal-breaker, but good tip anyway.
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| robboj wrote: |
| I go to ZamS and both AA and RAC routeplanners take you to Siegsdorf and into Austria at Lofer from Munich as do about three different Satnav's I have used in the past. Had to get a taxi from Munich once and he went via Kufstein and St Johann, which suggests that is the local knowledge of the quickest way? |
It sounds as though via Lofer is actually shorter (slightly) but I think that the road via St. Johann is probably easier driving (only one short windy section right after Kufstein). I doubt if there is much in it either way.
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FAQ
They tell me that on a Sunday after the end of skiing is a good time to get people!)
