 Poster: A snowHead
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| pavlf wrote: |
| @Gored, I'm leaning towards thinking your heart is in the right place |
Trust me, it's really not.
Google "empathy disorders".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm trying to be generous and to keep things on the side of civility. It's so easy to fall into a slanging match, which is useless. I can do that anywhere. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pavlf, there are plenty of people on here to disagree agreeably with. With certain individuals that is not possible. IMVHO this is one.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@pavlf, Gored has stated in a round about way on this thread and explicitly on other threads in the past, that he doesn’t care about climate change. He knows it is real, but as he is unlikely to be around to suffer most of the consequences, he’s not prepared to change his enjoyment for the good of others and those to come.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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in the spirit of the times, ask AI
Is climate change real?
Answer
Yes, climate change is real and is primarily driven by human activities. The majority of the scientific community agrees on this.
Will it kill us all?
Answer
Climate change poses significant risks to human health and survival, but it's not correct to say it will "kill us all". However, the impacts of climate change can be severe, and they include:
Extreme Weather Events: Climate change can lead to more frequent and intense weather events such as hurricanes, heatwaves, and heavy rainfall. These events can cause loss of life and property.
Food and Water Security: Changes in climate patterns can affect crop yields and water availability, leading to food and water shortages.
Health Risks: Warmer temperatures can increase the spread of certain diseases like malaria and dengue fever. Heatwaves can also cause heat stroke and other health problems.
Displacement of People: Rising sea levels and extreme weather events can lead to displacement of people, leading to refugee crises.
The severity of these impacts can be reduced by taking action to mitigate climate change, such as reducing greenhouse gas emissions and transitioning to renewable energy sources. Adaptation strategies such as building sea walls and developing drought-resistant crops can also help protect us from the impacts of climate change. It's important to remember that every action counts and it's never too late to start making changes.
Am I right to want to argue with climate change deniers?
Answer:
Engaging in discussions about climate change, including with those who deny its existence or human contribution, can be an important part of spreading awareness and understanding. However, it's crucial to approach these conversations with respect, patience, and solid information. Here are a few tips:
Stay Informed: Understand the basic science behind climate change so you can explain it clearly and accurately. Use reputable sources for your information.
Listen and Understand Their Views: People deny climate change for various reasons. It could be due to misinformation, political beliefs, economic interests, or fear of change. Understanding their perspective can help you address their concerns more effectively.
Communicate Effectively: Use clear, simple language. Stories and analogies can be more effective than inundating someone with data.
Find Common Ground: Climate change affects everyone, regardless of political or ideological beliefs. Find areas of agreement—like the need for clean air and water, or efficient use of resources.
Stay Respectful: Name-calling or belittling others can backfire. It's better to maintain a respectful dialogue.
Remember, it's not always about "winning" an argument. Sometimes, the goal can simply be to plant a seed of doubt in the mind of a climate change denier, and that's a step forward.
Me:
Well there we have it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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How depressing about Gored. I fear quite a number of people think that way - and have done in the past - which is why we find ourselves here.
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@davidof, sorry without any context it is hard to understand what you are trying to convey with that photo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@zikomo, he's trying to say that conditions in the Vercors are currently not very good.
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| pavlf wrote: |
| I fear quite a number of people think that way - and have done in the past - which is why we find ourselves here. |
Yes, and also no. The beliefs and actions of a few deniers are not the principal cause of our global failure drastically to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions over the last 50 or so years. The principal reason why we find ourselves here is that burning fossil fuels and releasing CO2 (etc.) into the atmosphere is and remains highly profitable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Global CO2 emissions per-head peaked in 2012 and have been falling for well over a decade.
The world is looking in good shape.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Er, CO2 emissions reached record levels in 2023.
They did drop back to 2012 levels during COVID, but have been rising again ever since.
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Looking like good shape in the Vercors. I wonder what the knock-on effects of all this snow loss will be for wildlife, plant life, the summer and etc?
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You know it makes sense.
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Global CO2 emissions per-head have fallen sharply from 4.9 metric tons in 2012 to 4.6 tons in 2023.
Close, but no cigar 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Global CO2 emissions per-head have fallen sharply from 4.9 metric tons in 2012 to 4.6 tons in 2023.
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Great, so we can continue to increase absolute emissions, and as long as the global population continues to increase slightly more rapidly, then per-capita emissions will continue to fall. Genius!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yup, total greenhouse gas emissions per-head have also tumbled, from 8 tons in 1973 to 7 tons in 2023.
Back to 1950s levels!
CO2 per-head is down.
All greenhouse gases combined per-head are down.
The trends are clear.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@JayRo, genius is one way to describe it. Per capita!!! Thanks for pointing out the obvious flaw here.
C02 emissions are at record levels in total. C02ppm are at record levels in human history. The trends are clear
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pavlf wrote: |
| Looking like good shape in the Vercors. I wonder what the knock-on effects of all this snow loss will be for wildlife, plant life, the summer and etc? |
at least the pistes seem to be empty
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Extremophile wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
LOL
Cant predict next weeks weather, but somehow can predict the next 20 years.
Do yourselves a favour & stop listening to mainstream media… |
Do yourself a favour and learn the difference between weather and climate. |
Well aware of the difference, If they cant predict the short term, then why so much faith in their long term predictions?
Do yourself a favour & think for yourself. |
Are you really doubting the changing climate or you just don’t care/dont think your actions make any difference? |
I doubt the havoc it supposedly causes. Everything that is not a mild normal day is getting the climate change tag.
Nope, I don't think my actions make any difference. I have solar power that has slashed my elec. bill in 1/2. I drive an EV, but I did not do those for climate change reasons.
I recently replaced my old system boiler, with a modern gas conventional one. I looked at heat pump, but i) not sure if it would heat my house enough when most needed. Not afraid of the retrofit, as I plan on installing a multi-fuel burner with a small back boiler to heat downstairs with underfloor pipework anyway.
The £2bn to heatpumps should have been spent on solar panels. A £5k grant (typical install without battery is about £7k) would be enough for 400,000 homes. The remaining install cost (£2k) could be done via a low interest loan scheme where it is paid back via the FIT/SEG payments. IE the loan repayments are never more than the FIT/SEG payment the homeowner would otherwise receive.
It will save people money, that may mean they can afford to do other home improvements.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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How can you doubt the havoc it 'supposedly' causes? That's quite a surprising statement. Don't you keep up to date with world affairs? Even local affairs would do it. Fortunately no one made much of a living out of skiing where I live, though there were more shops selling skis in the past, but in Scotland I'd say havoc is being played with a few lives. In the lower ski areas in the Alps I'd imagine quite a few people are feeling the effects of havoc. People under drought conditions in parts of Africa and the Amazon basin as well as people in the Andes suffering water shortages due to glacial loss are enduring large scale havoc in their lives. Your life seems quite comfortable. You buy expensive things, but 'not for climate change reasons'. You also point to the troubling individual in society conundrum. You're obviously attuned to living as an individual and see no reason to see yourself as being part of a larger whole. You appear to be one of those people Raymond Williams pointed out half a century ago for whom the masses are always other people. It's quite true that as an individual you make very little difference, but you are part of a mass society. The expensive goods you buy yourself would be absolutely impossible to either produce or purchase outside of a mass society. Similarly the money you make would be impossible to come by without other people. The ski resorts you love to visit could not exist if you alone frequented them. They only exist because we live in a mass society of people who mostly, and hilariously, think they are individuals but who actually operate as a mass. When a mass of people think their actions make no difference and therefore see no reason to change, the difference they actually do make will continue to count.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 7-02-24 10:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Gored wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Extremophile wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
LOL
Cant predict next weeks weather, but somehow can predict the next 20 years.
Do yourselves a favour & stop listening to mainstream media… |
Do yourself a favour and learn the difference between weather and climate. |
Well aware of the difference, If they cant predict the short term, then why so much faith in their long term predictions?
Do yourself a favour & think for yourself. |
Are you really doubting the changing climate or you just don’t care/dont think your actions make any difference? |
I doubt the havoc it supposedly causes. Everything that is not a mild normal day is getting the climate change tag. |
The evidence would suggest climate change is increasing the frequency and impact of extreme weather events
https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-some-signs-climate-change
If you have children (or a conscience), it seems strange to deny / ignore it until it’s too late. Even China has a carbon neutral policy objective!
Interesting to see this insight on the US Congressmen who share your view
“139 climate-denying members have received more than $61 million in lifetime contributions from the coal, oil, and gas industries.”
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Effects could easily become more obvious and closer to home very soon. We buy very large amounts of food from Spain. We drove across inland Spain recently, past ski resorts where no snow whatsoever has fallen, across a huge agricultural plateau, where it hasn't rained for three years! Parts of Spain water reserves, in midwinter (this is at the end of the "rainy" season) are down to below 20%. In Catalonia domestic car washing is banned, filling swimming pools with fresh water is banned - if rain returns these measures are for a minimum of 18 months, if the rain doesn't come they will run out of water to grow our, and many other people's fruit and salad.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@RobinS, exactly! A lot of people seem to think it's a case of 'I'm alright, I'll just go skiing higher up and it'll be lovely and warm in the valley', but the repercussions are more far-ranging than moving to altitude and spending lots of time in the warm sun. The drought conditions in some places will impact snow making too (Spain in particular)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| JayRo wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
Global CO2 emissions per-head have fallen sharply from 4.9 metric tons in 2012 to 4.6 tons in 2023.
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Great, so we can continue to increase absolute emissions, and as long as the global population continues to increase slightly more rapidly, then per-capita emissions will continue to fall. Genius! |
Lol.
Each one of us -- across the entire planet -- on average, is emitting less and less greenhouse gas and CO2 with every passing year.
That's been happening since 2012 for CO2, and since the 1970s for all GGs combined.
The downtrends are crystal clear
Regarding population growth -- that's a fundamental human right.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nope.
Global climate deaths by weather have plunged a staggering -95% in the past 100 years between 1923 and 2023.
The worldwide human population is safer from weather and climate today than at any other time in all the past 1 million years of human history.
The world has moved into a golden age of weather safety.
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Please stop with gibberish.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pavlf wrote: |
| How can you doubt the havoc it 'supposedly' causes? That's quite a surprising statement. Don't you keep up to date with world affairs? Even local affairs would do it. Fortunately no one made much of a living out of skiing where I live, though there were more shops selling skis in the past, but in Scotland I'd say havoc is being played with a few lives. In the lower ski areas in the Alps I'd imagine quite a few people are feeling the effects of havoc. People under drought conditions in parts of Africa and the Amazon basin as well as people in the Andes suffering water shortages due to glacial loss are enduring large scale havoc in their lives. Your life seems quite comfortable. You buy expensive things, but 'not for climate change reasons'. You also point to the troubling individual in society conundrum. You're obviously attuned to living as an individual and see no reason to see yourself as being part of a larger whole. You appear to be one of those people Raymond Williams pointed out half a century ago for whom the masses are always other people. It's quite true that as an individual you make very little difference, but you are part of a mass society. The expensive goods you buy yourself would be absolutely impossible to either produce or purchase outside of a mass society. Similarly the money you make would be impossible to come by without other people. The ski resorts you love to visit could not exist if you alone frequented them. They only exist because we live in a mass society of people who mostly, and hilariously, think they are individuals but who actually operate as a mass. When a mass of people think their actions make no difference and therefore see no reason to change, the difference they actually do make will continue to count. |
Mass society is only going to increase when Brazil (Pop. 200m), India (pop 1.4bn), Nigeria (pop. 200m), China (pop 1.4bn) population become richer and want the same things that we currently enjoy in the west. Hated/cooled homes, lighting, technology & white appliances to make our day easier, personal transport, etc.
Western/developed world could produce 0 co2 (not carbon neutral, but produce 0) & it still wont make any difference.
So I am just going to crack on. If I cared it would be fruitless exercise trying to be carbon neutral anyway, so I am not going to fall for what is essentially a con.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well that's quite exasperating (which is a nice way of saying it). The masses are always other people. Perfectly illustrated. In one post.
Things cannot only get better, as Keir Starmer perfectly illustrated last night. All across the planet politicians are pressured into doing much less than they should by people in whose interests it is that those like Gored continue to think they make no difference because they are only one person and it's all a big con anyway. Best carry as as you were. I'll fly to Colorado for the weekend, why shouldn't I? I deserve to drive to the shop in an SUV, I've got kids! I should have a Range Rover to drive to work, I worked hard for this! That's the idea, Gored. You crack on. That's what a very sizeable number of people are going to do. A large mass. And that mass influence policy planet-wide. And that means that this winter isn't a 'bad season' this winter is an amazing season of the future. Things are only going to get worse. Call me names. Call me a dupe. Think yourself a free thinker, but by the time you are old and everything has gone to sh One T you may well have the courage to admit to yourself that you were terribly wrong. Not a future I look forward to. I'd rather you had some sort of epiphany now, today, and that you might then go on to change the minds of your friends (assuming you have some) who likely think the same as you.
As for the Troll, gibberish doesn't cover it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Nope.
Global climate deaths by weather have plunged a staggering -95% in the past 100 years between 1923 and 2023.
The worldwide human population is safer from weather and climate today than at any other time in all the past 1 million years of human history.
The world has moved into a golden age of weather safety. |
A human being is safer today than 1 million years ago??? Your insights get more spectacular by the year
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pavlf wrote: |
Well that's quite exasperating (which is a nice way of saying it). The masses are always other people. Perfectly illustrated. In one post.
Things cannot only get better, as Keir Starmer perfectly illustrated last night. All across the planet politicians are pressured into doing much less than they should by people in whose interests it is that those like Gored continue to think they make no difference because they are only one person and it's all a big con anyway. Best carry as as you were. I'll fly to Colorado for the weekend, why shouldn't I? I deserve to drive to the shop in an SUV, I've got kids! I should have a Range Rover to drive to work, I worked hard for this! That's the idea, Gored. You crack on. That's what a very sizeable number of people are going to do. A large mass. And that mass influence policy planet-wide. And that means that this winter isn't a 'bad season' this winter is an amazing season of the future. Things are only going to get worse. Call me names. Call me a dupe. Think yourself a free thinker, but by the time you are old and everything has gone to sh One T you may well have the courage to admit to yourself that you were terribly wrong. Not a future I look forward to. I'd rather you had some sort of epiphany now, today, and that you might then go on to change the minds of your friends (assuming you have some) who likely think the same as you.
As for the Troll, gibberish doesn't cover it. |
it is not about being right or wrong. It is about being realistic.
The population of developed countries is less than 1.5bn
The population of developing countries is around 7bn
That is your iceberg. You can't stop developing countries developing. So co2 is only going to go one way as 85% of the worlds population turn to consumerism.
So being realistic, reducing co2 footprint in the developed world (since that is what the finger points to) will not make any difference.
When the developed world shutdown due to covid, how come it made absoultely no difference to the climate? no difference. zero. ziltch.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As often the case people seem to be thinking taking action has to be detrimental and only a climate issue.
For example reducing, reusing and recycling stuff reduces landfill and limits our need to produce stuff from scratch. Regardless of climate change there can be benefits to how we live and economically in the long run.
Travelling by train or by EV to go skiing can bring there own benefits.
As Gored says he has solar panels and drives an EV because it's economically beneficial aswell as beneficial for climate change. He, personally, doesn't have to believe. As long as most of society and most governments push in the right direction it will happen.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Layne, exactly!
Gored: No point going over the 'why didn't covid have any effect' again. It's been explained several times.
Realism: 85% of the world won't get to the point where they can turn to consumerism (as you call it), the ecosystems currently supporting this economic system (no coincidence both ecology and economy share the same root, the shame is we forgot the connection) will not support it. Nature has been cheap these last couple of hundred years, but that's all changing. Cheap nature is over. Our economic system must change or the ecosystem will change in a way that no longer supports us. What should we do? Try to change things or surrender to a future that won't support the generations to come.
It is about being right or wrong. I wish it wasn't.
There's an interesting article in the Alp D'Huez thread about limiting skier numbers. Higher ski areas are being inundated with people coming from lower stations with little or no snow. This is a harbinger of the near future. The further up the mountain you go necessarily the less area there is. Decreased supply leads to increased prices. Troubling times ahead. And troubled people to match, as evidenced by this thread.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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An interesting summary by the Swiss National Centre for Climate Change entitled ’Snow-scarce Winters’.
Since 1970 in Alpine areas below 800m the number of days of snow each winter has halved.
Of 173 major measuring stations in Switzerland, since 1901, 158 have shown a significant increase in single-day, heavy precipitation events. None have measured a significant reduction.
They also have an interesting study about ’Climate Scenarios for Switzerland’
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| Gored wrote: |
Mass society is only going to increase when Brazil (Pop. 200m), India (pop 1.4bn), Nigeria (pop. 200m), China (pop 1.4bn) population become richer and want the same things that we currently enjoy in the west. Hated/cooled homes, lighting, technology & white appliances to make our day easier, personal transport, etc.
Western/developed world could produce 0 co2 (not carbon neutral, but produce 0) & it still wont make any difference.
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100% this, why do we spend so much time talking about it when the above countries to name a few will only carry on emitting more and more for reasons already discussed...... China alone is responsible for 27% global emissions, India will be pretty close in due course.....pointless absolutely pointless any if us even trying to do anything personally.
And the argument of 'western society' being historically responsible, what are we supposed to do, turn back the clock??
It's doomed (the world and way before that the ski holiday industry) - so we can only hope to enjoy the few years we have left.
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| pavlf wrote: |
@Layne, exactly!
Realism: 85% of the world won't get to the point where they can turn to consumerism |
Do you remember what Eastern Europe was like 40 years ago compared to today?
How about Nigeria? China? South America, West Africa, etc.
So much infrastructure has been built & is being built.
Every decade adds 1bn people to the planet / 100m per year. The population today is double that of 50 years ago.
In a decade, that is an extra 4bn co2 just by population growth if using today's average of 4 ton per person globally (UK average is under 6 ton per person). That is equal to a 10% share today.
4bn - 10x what the whole of the UK produces.
1% reduction in Co2 is negated by population growth.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| neilkav wrote: |
| 100% this, why do we spend so much time talking about it when the above countries to name a few will only carry on emitting more and more for reasons already discussed...... China alone is responsible for 27% global emissions, India will be pretty close in due course.....pointless absolutely pointless any if us even trying to do anything personally. |
You need to educate yourself about what others are doing. I put in a link in about China on this or another thread in the last couple of days.
Also as above there are immediate and local benefits to us doing things differently. Think about air quality in urban areas by not using ICE vehicles for example.
| neilkav wrote: |
| And the argument of 'western society' being historically responsible, what are we supposed to do, turn back the clock?? |
Of course not. But we can take some responsibility for what we created and help fix/mitigate.
| neilkav wrote: |
| It's doomed (the world and way before that the ski holiday industry) - so we can only hope to enjoy the few years we have left. |
Well a) it's not doomed in it's entirety and b) we can "enjoy" more if we try to limit/repair the damage.
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I see that climate denialism has morphed into climate action denialism. Straight from “it’s not happening” to “we can’t do anything about it”.
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FAQ
