Switzerland for domestic tourism only?

A snowHead

BobinCH, Sounds a much better proposition Toofy Grin

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

conference today was interesting but didn't confirm anything. According to google translation on 20mins.ch website, the focus seems to be potential for further tightening of shops and restaurants to be announced on Friday

Skiing seems to be ok for now, in particular Berset siad: "We have set the conditions for how skiing can be done" A capacity restriction including protection concepts has been passed. "After that, it is up to the cantons to decide whether to authorize skiing.". Remember all ski areas will need a permit from the Canton to operate from Dec 22nd

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@BobinCH, why do you have to repeat the entirety of it for all to see, even when you see it as total nonsense??? Puzzled

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@BobinCH, "Or alternatively, boost your immune system by getting outside in the sunshine, top up your vitamin D, get regular exercise, sleep well and reduce your stress."

Well it's a tough job but s'pose someone has to step up to the plate and carry out the necessary Very Happy

Certainly good reports from "our chap in Switzerland" as foreign correspondent, keep them rolling snowHead

sterling work.

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Given the new London superplague sweeping Britain and Europe this week, it's only a matter of time before Switzerland reshuts its borders.

After all it is free

It's always surprising to me how confident people like Stanton are in the face of uncertainty.

There is a risk of Covid if ski resorts and restaurants open, and a risk of economic harm if they don't. No one can precisely quantify either of these risks, which is why reasonable people may differ on how to balance them.

The Swiss government has decided on a balance which, for now, favours open ski resorts. Stanton and his friends may reasonably disagree with this balance, but it is up to the Swiss government to manage Switzerland.

I'm currently in Switzerland skiing, in full compliance with the law here. I will quarantine when I get back to England, in full compliance with the law there. If you think that those laws are stupid and immoral, you can vote on them or write to your legislators. You may find that more productive than denoucing strangers on the Internet.

I'm delighted to report a great day of ski touring in Crans Montana. No one here, so social distancing isn't an issue (I'm sure it's busier on the weekend, but well marked social distancing in the lift queues). Snow was acceptable, only 20% of the ski area open, but great to be skiing again (in the beautiful, sweet fresh air).

I've followed the law leaving the UK, crossing France (filled out a lot of forms and not one of them checked) and will do on return to the UK.

Incidentally restaurants in the Valais are now allowed to open as of today, although there is a curfew (missed what it was, but too late for me to worry about).

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Quote from Swiss Federal Broadcasting (SFR) (Via Google Translate):

“Price of the «Swiss Way»
Now, for the second time in this pandemic, Switzerland is heading towards the closure of restaurants and shops. This means that the “Swiss way” could ultimately lead over the same bridge as the corona policy of those countries that have long since been in the “shutdown” again. The “Swiss Way” has also unsettled many people. He calls for more corona deaths every day than the corona policy in other countries. And there is a risk that the situation will get out of hand. This danger has not yet been averted.

But that's the price Switzerland is willing to pay for its corona policy.”

@sugarmoma666, I think you're right that hospital capacity is an important consideration. But I suspect that the Swiss government is aware of this constraint, and their decision to keep the ski resorts open has been made with that constraint in mind.

Again, I think reasonable people may disagree with the Swiss decision, and the decision could change at any time, but as of this moment that's the position they've taken. I don't think it should fall to individual tourists to evaluate or manage the capacities of the Swiss medical system.

You know it makes sense.

I imagine right now in Switzerland you’re more likely to end up on a ventilator because of a day spent shopping than a day spent skiing. If Switzerland got everyone out of public transport, shops, offices, restaurants, bars, universities, and up into the mountains every day this thing would be back to zero in two weeks.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

"Valais: moins de 100 hospitalisations Covid , 8 Novembre 345" from todays Le Nouvelliste

A snowHead

Before everyone succumbs to Langerzug's Swiss-bashing hyperbole, it's worth noting that as of last week, Switzerland's Covid death rate is half of that in the UK.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Couple of cut and pastes from the Swiss Federal Office of Public Health (FOPH) site yesterday:

Hospitalisation data should be interpreted with caution due to under-reporting and reporting delays.

Contact tracing
Source: FOPH – Status: 14.12.2020, 07.10h

The cantonal offices are overwhelmed by the sharp increase in the number of cases. For this reason the contact tracing data are not complete.

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@LaForet, it is not me, it is Swiss Federal Broadcasting
Slight difference...
And with respect to the lower numbers in Valais: also within Switzerland the ‘kantonal’ liberties are currently seen as very problematic.
Today the Zürich academic hospitals are saying they can’t cope anymore. Whilst Fribourg is opening restaurants again... 150 km apart...

#failed state....
#liberal freak show

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If you're so worried about dying from COVID, consider dying from something else. Help bump up the death by trousers numbers.

On my recent visit to Switzerland, it was much the same as the UK. Masks, no bodies piling up anywhere obvious, and no officials saying "nothing to see here". The evidence of my senses tells me all is well.

The world is still out there, Switzerland is still expensive, and there's plenty of fun to be had.

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Another quote from Swiss Federal Broadcast, through google translate:

“Close accident-prone slopes”
Mountain cantons are looking for alternative capacities in the lowlands for people who have had an accident while skiing. A journalist asks if there is capacity for this. Canton doctor Hauri says that the problem could be serious in particular, such as people with head injuries. There might be a lack of capacity for these. «Perhaps that is why we should close particularly accident-prone sections to winter sports enthusiasts. You know where most serious injuries happen. "

But it could not be the concept of relocating the injured to the lowlands in principle. The capacities would have to be available locally”

#liberal freakshow

After all it is free

@Langerzug, so first you called us all naive, little boys and insisted all Swiss ski resorts would close under pressure from Merkel.

Looks like you were wrong on that one.

Now you’re calling Switzerland a failed state and liberal freakshow for keeping ski resorts open, despite Valais hospitalizations going down, based on a Cantonal doctor saying there could be a problem?

So you think you have better data and are better placed than the Minister of Home Affairs, Alain Berset to make judgements on the conflicting interests of the medical and tourism sectors? Based on listening to the radio?

@BobinCH, just ignore him. He knows no more than anybody else about what is going on in the country.

If you read the transcripts of the media broadcasts and newspaper articles, it is clear that

1) the Federal Government is not going to unilaterally shut down the ski resorts in the short term. They are also not going to move to a full generalised lockdown in the short term. They have stated this in media conferences
2) the Cantons have the power to close ski resorts, but will need to hold out until at least the 22nd December to wield it (under the permit system)
3) some Cantons are more likely to shut down resorts than others - it looks likely that St Gallen (Flumserberg) will. Possibly followed by Graubünden given their hospital situation. Clearly if you have a holiday booked in Davos, Flims Laax, St Moritz or Arosa Lenzerheide you should be much more worried than someone booked in Zermatt or Verbier
4) the next Federal meeting is on Friday, where indications are that the Federal Government will announce a traffic light system to be put in place from the 28th December. This will impact shops and restaurants (still not ski lifts).
5) most western cantons have flat or falling case rates and intensive care utilisation (I am interested in Bern, where the case positivity rate has hovered around 16% for the last 3 weeks having fallen from 22% in November, and a steady 50-60 people are in intensive care beds).

My tactic is to drive down and book a hotel with half board in Wengen. Happy to pack picnics for lunches, and if they close the lifts from the 22nd we will walk and go for day trips in the local area.

I am of course glued to the Swiss newsites and this forum - I tend to obsess over these things! But I am excited and positive that, at least for the next couple of weeks, a ski holiday in Switzerland is possible!

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Is closing hotels for tourists an option in CH with only business travellers permitted?? So effectively day trippers and campervans only - as in Austria??

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@colinstone It's not something that appears to be being discussed right now. So seems unlikely in the short term at least. Like anything though, you can never say never - if cases accelerate dramatically anything can happen. Have a plan in place!

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@colinstone, I would say you can only think about the short term here - skiing before the 22nd Dec looks pretty safe. From the 22-28 should be ok in cantons with stable virus rates and hospital vacancies (i.e. Bern, Vaud and Valais). From the 28th, anything could happen assuming the new traffic light system is approved. And in any case from the 1st Jan us Brits look unlikely to be able to travel (even if we get a deal - we'll still be a 3rd country. There's no guarantee the deal would allow tourist entry to the Schengen area)

@ma94jcg, agree with your posts; there is also plenty of accommodation available only issue for me is quarantine on return to UK.

You know it makes sense.

@ma94jcg, OK and thanks. I'm planning to arrive an apartment Lauterbrunnen 30 or 31 Dec. Do you reckon I should try and get there earlier??
Already done a 14 day weekend in UK after returning from France in autumn!!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@colinstone, only you can decide that.. unfortunate I have no more of a crystal ball than anyone else

I would say, much like in the summer, the restrictions are only going one way right now. So skiing this week looks guaranteed, next week looks hopeful and the week after...who knows

A snowHead

Have to say there seems to have been a lot of lobbying from health professionals in Switzerland today arguing for a full lockdown soon. Need to keep an eye on the papers for signs of a change in tone from the politicians ahead of Friday

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Bob...let’s hope so I’m out on the 31st to Champex

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[/quote]Younger or healthier population?[/quote]

yes also less poverty and deprivation, lower population density etc lower viral load

After all it is free

I wouldn't normally take individual data or commentary out of context anyway. It was just in response to the usual misdirection from Langerzug. As people have observed, there may be any number of demographic, social or healthcare infrastructure factors that make the UK figures different form the Swiss. And no one is disputing that all countries' medical services will rightly be concerned that A&E services could be overwhelmed if we fail to limit infections. I have no problem with people arguing for far stricter measures, but I do have an issue with them putting forward completely unbalanced reporting because they have an alternative, hidden agenda.

Langerzug is a proxy/puppet of Stanton, the alter ego of Dutch cabby Very Happy

Just desperately attempting to write in a disguised style to hide the origins, but forensic imprint the same.

Avoiding the usual "stay at home" end statement by juvenile use of hashtag, hashtag, hashtags.

Not a good enough disguise, must try harder.

Can safely be discounted in serious ski discourse.

#doyouknowwhoihadinthebackofmycab.

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@LaForet, @BobinCH, why do you keep repeating that I’m making up false info about Switzerland? Everything I have been posting comes from SFR, Swiss Federal Broadcasting.
And that includes the “Swiss liberal freak show”
Maybe you need to work on your German and/or French?

Today SFR is reporting that the Kanton Zürich-government is demanding closure of all skiareas, in all of Switzerland.

3 weeks after Europe, Switzerland is gonna follow.
As predicted.
Embarrassing.

Help!!

Switzerland for domestic tourism only?

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