Can someone make this thread a sticky? I'm just concerned that next season a plucky inventor might come up with a similar idea and wouldn't want them to invest a lot of time and effort on recreating this - it might take up time creating a product that has a chance of being good.
Quite!
Shout out to @albob for adding the immortal words Snowheads gold to the thread, ensuring one can search for great inventions and other such gems all in the same hit
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Joe Axelrad wrote:
@DB, I hope you don't ask for my phone number and for a date.
You little devil, playing hard to get now are we? How will I know it‘s you, by the ribbons on your feet? Don‘t worry I‘ll leave my transceiver at home, we don‘t want one of those noisy things spoiling our quiet walks together on Tel Aviv beach do we?
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar wrote:
Joe Axelrad wrote:
If one carries a transceiver I might hear.
It's great to have some light entertainment.
Look he said he was rad, that doesn‘t mean he knows the difference between a transceiver and a vibrator.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DB wrote:
Look he said he was rad, that doesn‘t mean he knows the difference between a transceiver and a vibrator.
One helps out in a slide and the other slides in and helps out?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Tubaski,
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Joe Axelrad wrote:
@Layne[/color], You don't understand: I like talking to people and I like people, but skiing alone doesn't mean you don't like people. It is, for me, Complete Freedom.
You're right I don't understand but let's move on to my other question:
#1 Did you ask them how they afforded to be on the slopes in the first place?
As others have pointed out a tranceiver, shovel and probe are not expensive in the long run. And they have a good track record of working - as much as anything can in an avalanche. So why wouldn't people who spend lots of money on kit (hire/buy), learning to ski, travel to the resort, accommodation, etc. be able to invest a little more on some good safety equipment?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Layne, I respect people privacy and don't ask people how much they make, or where their money comes from.
The sad fact is that they don't have any safety equipment, and most of them are not aware of.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
they don't have any safety equipment, and most of them are not aware of.
@Joe Axelrad, then might not your efforts be better directed at education on how to find skis in snow and what kit you need to ski off piste?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
There are about 130 million skiers in the world.
That's a big number to educate.
I rather prefer to help a few thousands.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Joe Axelrad wrote:
There are about 130 million skiers in the world.
That's a big number to educate.
I rather prefer to help a few thousands.
oh dear, you've paid for a production run of a few thousand? No wonder you're so resistent to any feedback that doesn't align with your vision.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Joe Axelrad wrote:
There are about 130 million skiers in the world.
That's a big number to educate.
I rather prefer to help a few thousands.
In which case you'd have been better spending the energy and money you have put into your "product" into an avalanche safety education programme. I'm pretty sure "outreach" education is more than happy to take donations so you didn't need to be an expert yourself (which you are clearly not). But given have launched an avalanche rescue product with seemingly no consultation with any of the people you are expecting to rescue you the concept of "playing well with others" doesn't seem like it's a thing to you.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Tubaski, Don't worry about my numbers.
I am used to big numbers.
And you miss my vision of helping people to have something rather than nothing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
As we move into day 4, @Joe Axelrad, is still trying to capture the hearts and minds of snowheads, he hasn’t gone quietly in the night. After three gruelling days of challenges Joe is still putting up a fight but a snowhead is yet to be bought over. Will today be the day that Joe manages to break a snowhead signalling the start of mainstream adoption of his “avalanche device” or will he say “khalas” and throw in the towel???
@Tubaski, Don't worry about my numbers.
I am used to big numbers.
And you miss my vision of helping people to have something rather than nothing.
Well, sir, your vision is misguided. Your something is worse than nothing from a safety perspective, giving a false sense of security. Many others, more experienced than I, have pointed out the serious flaws in your product.
And one question: as you are skiing alone off piste somewhere and have the misfortune to get caught in avalanche, who is going to raise the alarm that you are buried or start looking for your traces/digging?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Joe Axelrad wrote:
@Tubaski, Don't worry about my numbers.
I am used to big numbers.
And you miss my vision of helping people to have something rather than nothing.
I didn't miss it, I just think it is seriously wrongheaded.
If you do need to recover some of your costs maybe think about alternative applications for your product. I had a little ponder on it, but the only field I could come up with that might have a need for ribbon based leg attachments is Morris Dancing.
Another problem with your product is you still need shovel and probe, so the costs are higher than just the $35 you quote. A quick google suggests that bleep/shovel/probe are available to hire for approx 55 pounds a fortnight (and that's for a very good bleep and a proper metal shovel). Anyone who can't afford to buy would be very well advised to hire, and at the price of a beer a day is doesn't seem expensive at all.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
extremerob wrote:
As we move into day 4, @Joe Axelrad, is still trying to capture the hearts and minds of snowheads, he hasn’t gone quietly in the night. After three gruelling days of challenges Joe is still putting up a fight but a snowhead is yet to be bought over. Will today be the day that Joe manages to break a snowhead signalling the start of mainstream adoption of his “avalanche device” or will he say “khalas” and throw in the towel???
..having started with the basic defence of accusing his opponents of ignorance in not understanding his worldchanging product properly he has pulled a magnificent salco move and is now playing the moral superiority card of improving things for mankind while the n'er do wells do nothing...the question is....is it too late....and now a humble brag allusion to how phenomenally wealthy he is....really bold play...the opposition will be feeling demoralised...this man is a fortress.....can he take it into day 5?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 5-11-20 11:01; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Joe Axelrad wrote:
@Tubaski, Don't worry about my numbers.
I am used to big numbers.
And you miss my vision of helping people to have something rather than nothing.
If they don't have the holy trinity (shovel, probe and Transceiver) they shouldn't be going offpiste and a bit of ribbon is no substitute for these.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
LOTA wrote:
And one question: as you are skiing alone off piste somewhere and have the misfortune to get caught in avalanche, who is going to raise the alarm that you are buried or start looking for your traces/digging?
Yeah, I am interested in answer to that one too.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Joe Axelrad wrote:
@Layne, I respect people privacy and don't ask people how much they make, or where their money comes from.
But you don't respect their privacy enough to flog them some flawed solution that you are peddling?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Joe Axelrad wrote:
And you miss my vision of helping people to have something rather than nothing.
And you miss the point that it encourages more people to venture off piste without the proper safety gear, because they somehow think they've got their avalanche safety sorted by a couple of ribbons.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Joe Axelrad wrote:
There are about 130 million skiers in the world.
That's a big number to educate.
I rather prefer to help a few thousands.
Let's assume you manage to find people foolish enough to buy your device, rather than take the advice of every other off-piste expert and and get proper tested equipment. Let's also imagine that your (untested) device actually works...
Then to actually help those few thousand, you need to educate every other off-piste skier and ski patrol about your silly tapes. Otherwise how will they know that one of those tapes is actually attached to a skier. The number of skiers that need education in off-piste safety is fewer than those who'd need to be educated about your device.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Before anybody thinks that a cheap ribbon solution is the answer to going offpiste, please think about the safety of the mountain rescue people who often put their lives at risk to save others. Once an avalanche occurs it does not mean that the area is safe, the longer mountain rescue has to search then the greater the risk for them. Without a transceiver to search for it takes many more people and time and could be detrimental for others needing mountain rescue assistant at the same time.
Another thing to consider is that should you be caught and burried in an avalanche without a transceiver your family may only get your body back after the end of the season when the snow melts.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Thu 5-11-20 12:07; edited 1 time in total
Maybe Joe’s rationale for dragging this thread and his stalwart defence of his product out for so long is that sufficient people will read it to know what the ribbons mean?
If so I suspect he has vastly overestimated this thread’s reach. Overestimation seems to be his strong suit however, since he has also overestimated the usefulness of his product, the quality of his arguments, and, if one examines early posts, his use of the bold font.
@Tazz2bme, by the time I actually get to ski again, I suspect that seeing ribbons will result in me thinking "some tw@ has left their rubbish behind over there"
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Odds on our plucky hero brazening it out to day 5 lengthening as we speak
After all it is free
After all it is free
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Odds on our plucky hero brazening it out to day 5 lengthening as we speak
looks like @DB, avalanche education videos has scarred the lone wolf away - I can only hope that he buys himself a copy of Bruce Tempers "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain"
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
extremerob wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Odds on our plucky hero brazening it out to day 5 lengthening as we speak
looks like @DB, avalanche education videos has scarred the lone wolf away - I can only hope that he buys himself a copy of Bruce Tempers "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain"
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
It's great to have some light entertainment.
