 Poster: A snowHead
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@Markymark29, keeps the rescue services,medics in buisness.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
Think its getting some unnecessary negative publicity here, its a fantastic feat of engineering and opens up the Zurs link opportunities really well. If people are daft enough to ski off it without the skills to do so then that's their own problem, same as those who ski down Kandahar, that's no more the fault of Galzigbahn nor any other connecting lift than Flexenbahn is for those who choose to ski down from mid-station. The run from top of Trittkopf is well within the remit of people who can ski blues, if they choose to take a harder mid-station descent then its their choice imo, just don't moan and blame the lift, it goes down as well as up!  |
No argument on the feat of engineering - truly amazing.
I beg to disagree on your assessment that the 134 run from the top of Trittkopf is "well within the remit of people who can ski blues". It might be first thing in the morning, when still groomed, and not many people on it. Very different story by mid-morning, when it is mogul-city and crowded. You have been there... you would have seen people who cannot ski moguls well spearing off in all directions, losing speed control, which on a narrow run is a recipe for disaster.
Yes, you can download, but... on your first trip you will not know what is there on the way down, either 134 or 139, or alternatively you may see people trudging up the slope to get to the 134 piste and mistakenly think "how hard can it (139) be?". Going up Tritt2 does not solve the problem - you still have to do the second half of the 134 piste, which is the really crowded / mogul section, unless you can ski off piste and avoid piste altogether. If you can do the latter, then 139 is unlikely to cause too many problems.
My criticism is that ABB does not seeem to have given nearly as much thought to traffic flows, and hence piste design, as they did to the lift engineering. That is not an insoluble problem. I hope ABB learns from 2017, and fixes it for 2018.
My $0.02's worth.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
ou have been there... you would have seen people who cannot ski moguls well spearing off in all directions, losing speed control, which on a narrow run is a recipe for disaster.
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@ulmerhutte, Many times over the season and never saw any issues nor lemmings flying in all directions, anyway its no big deal as far as I'm concerned, if you're there you get down.....its not an ABB problem in my book....no more than it is with beginners NOT going up Schindlergratbahn or Riffl II (for experienced skiers only sign), a 20€ sign should sort it, or you go up and deal with the consequences.... like I said above the lift goes down as well as up;-)
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
My criticism is that ABB does not seeem to have given nearly as much thought to traffic flows, and hence piste design, as they did to the lift engineering. That is not an insoluble problem. I hope ABB learns from 2017, and fixes it for 2018.
My $0.02's worth. |
I thought the main problem is one that requires engineering and piste design to fix. Now the new lift encourages all of St Anton over to have a crack at the Weiss Ring I though Madloch, piste to Zug and the Zug lift are well under specced.
Due to a couple of unfortunate events haven't made either of my planned 2 trips this year to see in person mind.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Saying that "if people daft enough to ski off it without the skills to do so then that's their own problem" is nonsense.
If Galzig-Osthang (the blue piste) would have 25 serious accidents within 90 minutes (partly happening with heli's flying above the scene!) it would be closed as well.
On top of this the fact that the Fiascobahn is an extremely ambitious project, but without sensible piste connection to the Zürs area to accomodate the masses, instead an uphill-path or a Trittkopf II with lacking capacity.
Masses they clearly aimed to attract with their "Run of Fame" marketing...
Anno 2017....
Fiascobahn:
-lift-lift connection (getting back from Zürs to St.Anton is a 'lift-affair')
-not adapted to the masses
-Valfagehrpiste kaputt
-Trittkopfpiste kaputt
-Madloch bottleneck doubled
-Seekopf/Zürsersee: new bottleneck
-Madloch piste kaputt
-Rüfikopfbahn: new bottleneck in afternoon
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That is what you come to the Arlberg for.
It is a step up from other places.
You go up & get down in whatever way you can that can be on skis,snowboard,your ass, gurney or helicopter .
Do not expect ABB to provide carpet skiing blues at the top of each lift.
You can go to France for that 
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Excuse my ignorance, but what does ABB stand for?
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@SlipnSlide, Lift Operating Company
http://www.abbag.com/en/
The actual lifts are owned by various (many) consortium one of the biggest is based in Vienna.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Fiascobahn isn't ABB is it (ditto Valfagehr, think they're Zürs/Stuben respectively)?
Signage at the mid station is not the best IMHO (although been a while since I last made it over that way), although I believe they have improved the bottom station of the Trittkopf.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The Fiascobahn will clearly need some thinking over summer. Too many people for the slopes or infrastructure to cope with both in St Anton and Zurs. I wonder how much overall numbers of people who can stay in St Anton have increased as a result of the various new hotels?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just out of interest, why is this Bahn a fiasco? I didn't manage to make it over to St.A this season, so can't yet form an own opinion.
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@Steilhang, as I said earlier, I don't think the Bahn is a fiasco, though I do smile at the moniker. The problem is that the designers did not give enough thought to the traffic flows. Many runs have become more congested, none more so than 134. That run comfortably coped with the old Tritt cable car - 40 to 50 skiers - every 5 to minutes, but not with 2 high speed gondolas dumping people on it. As you can however see, there is a diversity of opinion on whether it is problem, and needs to be sorted, or should people just HTFU.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 31-03-17 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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@Steilhang, it's not a fiasco at all, to the contrary it's brilliant.
If folks ski off it beyond their capabilities that's their own problem. There's no backstop there, that's the beauty of the place, it's big country and as such beginners should respect that and go down in the lift if they aren't up to it not bemoan the lift company. These lift enhancements are extraordinary, many skiers aren't.
Do folks above seriously think that ABB haven't looked at traffic flows? C'mon guys this is a 100m€ project built in 6 months, i.e. planned to the n'th degree - you think it's not been thought through?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Markymark29, if this is the result of then thinking it through they have suffered from some very flawed thinking.
If it was intentional that they have ended up with far more people on certain pistes than can comfortably take them and have ended up badly exacerbating existing bottlenecks then it seems a very odd intention.
Might be a clever bit of engineering, but it's not a clever bit of resort management. Plenty of big projects with big budgets make mistakes in Austria just like everywhere else. At present the unintended consequences should be concerning the resort managers. I suspect they will give it some thought over summer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Folks.
The Flexenbahn wss built as Transit Lift.
i.e. Rauz to Zurs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@nozawaonsen, it is well planned and managed. The whole point of the Run of Fame is the resort can manage exactlh traffic flow. They can analyse weekly where folks ski ..
That is whatvi love. The tourists follow the same predictable pattern everyweek.
Therefore everyone else (locals/skibums) go the other direction
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well I'm not sure that's really what the good burghers of Zurs and their guests will have wanted and it does make it a whole lot harder to use lifts in that area without very lengthy queues or overly busy pistes. Not completely convinced by the new set up in Stuben either (someone needs to nick the keys for Albona 2 and get it up and running again). There are some lessons here that should be considered as they keep adding more hotels in St Anton and consider Projekt Dias.
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@nozawaonsen, Hopefully Dias will never happen. I agree with you re Albona II, my favourite lift in resort, awesome for ups and downs in the best pow...... also looks sad sat there closed up this season.
Re the lemmings on the Zurs run from mid station and top of Trittkopf....surely all it needs is a warning sign at lift bottom and top? I don't see too many beginners on Schindler couloirs! Its just new and people see others and assume its safe, given more information presumably they'd think twice, and give it a risk assessment before they threw themselves down there rather than stay on the lift?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There is a raft of difference between Schindlerbahn and Flexenbahn. One accesses advanced and above terrain, and the other replaced buses for the masses.
If indeed Flexenbahn - Trittkopfbahn 1 were properly designed for the transit purpose, as suggested by Stanton, then the default configuration would have been to ride Flexenbahn straight through to Zürs. That is not the case. If as suggested by @Markymark29, you "stay[ed] on the lift", either Flexenbahn or Trittkopfbahn 1, you would go around in circles. 
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Love it...here come all the expert Lift Engineers/Riders
This lift linkup has been in planning for years....
It is desigened as a transit lift to get folks from Rauz over to Zurs direct tk the new chairlift (built last season) . Trittkoft has always been for advance & expert thats why it was easy to get on to the old cablecar.
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Many very expensive projects that have been carefully planned for years turn out to have problems when they are actually built. Perhaps they underestimated the demand for using the new lift. Perhaps there are in any case more people in resort now than when the initial modelling was carried out. But either way there are two possibilities:
a. They intended to increase lift queues and overcrowd pistes. Which if they did deliberately was I suggest an error of judgement.
b. They did not intend for this outcome. In which case it was a mistake in planning.
Either way it feels like they need to look at it again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@nozawaonsen, They know exactly the numbers transitting. They alsi know when the daily limit is reached as agreed by Lech & Zurs.
Look its the first season of ops.
When they renew Albona1 & Abonagrat iti will keep more folks in Stuben on Albona.
If Lech & Zurs feel they are getting overcrowded then I am sure the the restriction imits will be relooked at but we are not there yet.
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@Markymark29, as muvh ss i do not want Dias to happen I am afraid it is virtually a done deal now.
All the planing/replanning has been done, designs etc. Even summer groundworks have already commenced two/three seasons ago .
The project is only waiting for the court in Vienna.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And the current snow conditions in the Arlberg are..........?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@skimastaaah, .....great for long lunches and factor 50 I'd suggest.
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Official Weather
More changeable weather is forecast, though inclement weather conditions are not expected. A very weak cold front will approach from the west at the weekend. It will weaken on its way eastward, although it will have an impact on the weather over our regions. On the one hand, föhny conditions are expected in the mountains, on the other hand unstably layered, but also mild air masses will reach us. Clouds will approach, which will occasionally slightly dim the sun and result in a small risk for showers, approaching throughout the course of the day. Classic April weather is expected at the beginning of the new week. Besides sun and clouds, one or another shower may occur. The unsettled April weather will turn into unsettled north westerly conditions towards midweek. Lower temperatures are forecast, the snow line will slowly sink below 1500 m.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @skimastaaah, .....great for long lunches and factor 50 I'd suggest. |
another slush fest for easter then. I was going to stay in Stuben this time, but now thinking best to stay in St Anton and enjoy the beer. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@skimastaaah, Best stay in Innsbruck and commute much cheaper, good bars sunny terraces and commute 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Warm
+12C downtown.. +4C Galzig
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Back at my desk after an epic week in St Anton. Some random thoughts;
Albona/Stuben - Don't know why Albona 2 isn't running, not having access to the top from Stuben seems deliberately obscure. Although now guaranteed a table at Berghaus Stuben, which is nice.
Flexen/Tritt - No queues at either base all week, but occasional 5-10 min wait at Tritt middle station to the top, many folks taking one look a the middle station drop in and bailing. Needs a blue cat track down. But otherwise excellent and worked well.
Madloch - 5-10 minute queues, but seen it much worse. Run to Zug quite busy but not stupidly so.
Rudalp - Still a great place for lunch.
Mooser - Excellent fun on Wednesday, but Friday was dangerously packed resulting in aggressiveness and scuffles breaking out. They need to limit numbers as a matter of urgency. Security guards at an apres venue isn't a good look. KK much more chilled and no less fun. Taps need to change their play list.
Stockli Stormrider 88's - Epic skis. The strong whip out of the turn took a few runs to adapt to but thereafter they're complete grin making machines and perfect for the hard/soft/slush daily snow progression.
Red 144 in Zurs - Mystifying empty all week considering it's fine of the best runs in the Alps and, as my friend observed, makes you feel like you're skiing in a Bond movie.
More as they occur...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dr John, Which one is that? I don't know any numbers...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Markymark29, drop left off muggengrat lift, down the dramatic valley & longish run off down to Zurs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think 144 is Zürsertali.
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Snap!
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5-10 minutes queue at Madloch and Trittkopf 2; end of March: That is quite awfull actually. Fiasco!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Langerzug, they aren't repeat use lifts, very much passing through so in context no, I don't think so bad. T2 was around 10am. The queues at Seekopf and Zursersee were more of a problem. That said, I wouldn't like to see what they are all like at peak times. Need to upgrade Madloch as a matter of urgency (and Zug as a consequence) & cut a blue track down from Flex.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
@Dr John, Which one is that? I don't know any numbers... |
Formerly Red 10  Still not got my head round the new piste numbers, using names or old numbers.
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FAQ
