 Poster: A snowHead
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
| Well clearly if you're an expert who skis off cliffs and down 55-degree couloirs for a laugh, then any piste in Val d'Isere will be easy to you. |
I think, along the same lines, people overestimate the relative nastiness of Santons. If you're confident with your own skiing on any slope, then of course you're going to be more worried about slopes where the biggest danger is other skiiers - that doesn't mean the same will apply to a less skilled skiier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Exactly, so why not recognise we don't all do that and don't be so snotty about recreational piste skiers 
(That doesn't look much fun BTW)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Piccadilly, sorry if it seemed snooty, Val's runs are I think graded, like lots of other places, a bit oddly.
Face gets a reputation because it is a home run in Val D'Isere is I think the point. There are lot of harder runs.
That isn't me BTW, although I did go next. I doubt I'll ever do anything harder. It was good when it was over and I had a great instructor.
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
Exactly, so why not recognise we don't all do that and don't be so snotty about recreational piste skiers
(That doesn't look much fun BTW) |
That photo looks a bit like the start of the "Vertical Experience Zone" which drops down from Saulire into Meribel. Having viewed it both the top and from the cable car that goes over it, we assumed it was some sort of drunken joke from the pisteurs. You can just hear them now: "I wonder if we put some black poles and video cameras here, if people will mistake this for a piste?" We saw one chap slipping down it, and he certainly didn't look to be enjoying it. We found out later that this is actually the Couloir de Meribel.
So basically, the problem we face as intermediate skiers is that whilst we should be able to manage all reds, there is a massive difference in difficulty in blacks. A good example of one with a tricky entry is Diamont Noir in Flaine, and I didn't even consider attempting that. Add snow conditions into the mix and it gets even more awkward to choose which blacks to try and which to avoid.
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ed123, where is that video taken. I need to know so I can make sure I avoid that run 
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sugarmoma666, not my video, but I think you actually have something there, there is a massive range in the difficulty of blacks, from smooth, groomed and a bit steep- to massive mogul fests of doom. Unpisted red runs can be pretty tricky too. The issue with Signal is that I think the main point of the lift is that it leads up to it is to access some good off piste so the run is a bit of an after thought.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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finestgreen, that looks horrible. Wouldn't it have been easier to do a long traverse a bit lower down, rather than get into that nasty little path?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, maybe! The bit directly below the ridge looked really nasty though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OK, so this season I've ticked a couple more EK blacks off the list.
Finally did Rhone Alps, and actually I choose this almost every time over Piste M now as it's usually much nicer. Not overly steep, and was in great condition.
Also did Raye, which isn't really black at all. The top of it it is like a secret piste, no-one is ever on it and the snow is great! Much better than the other busy runs to La Daille.
I also did Campanules, which is a lot steeper and bumpier than it looks from the lift! Didn't enjoy that one too much, it was knackering, and it may have involved some traverse-of-death-ing to bypass icy moguls.
I had a good look at Epaule du Charvet from the Arcelle red (gorgeous run) and it looked VERY steep. Not sure I'll ever pluck up the courage to attempt it, because once you're committed, there's no way out!
Also, Leisse was quite hard work this time because there was a lot of deep snow and it had huge moguls on it! It was the most difficult I've known it, normally it's no more than a short red. Now I know why it's graded black, ha.
There are still lots more blacks I haven't done - oh well, guess I'll just have to go back to Val next year! Unfortunately the top of the glacier was shut all week, which was a shame as I love the Descent run.
Face was in the best condition I've ever skied it, absolutely gorgeous and not a mogul or patch of ice in sight.
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
OK, so this season I've ticked a couple more EK blacks off the list.
Finally did Rhone Alps, and actually I choose this almost every time over Piste M now as it's usually much nicer. Not overly steep, and was in great condition.
Also did Raye, which isn't really black at all. The top of it it is like a secret piste, no-one is ever on it and the snow is great! Much better than the other busy runs to La Daille.
I also did Campanules, which is a lot steeper and bumpier than it looks from the lift! Didn't enjoy that one too much, it was knackering, and it may have involved some traverse-of-death-ing to bypass icy moguls.
I had a good look at Epaule du Charvet from the Arcelle red (gorgeous run) and it looked VERY steep. Not sure I'll ever pluck up the courage to attempt it, because once you're committed, there's no way out!
Also, Leisse was quite hard work this time because there was a lot of deep snow and it had huge moguls on it! It was the most difficult I've known it, normally it's no more than a short red. Now I know why it's graded black, ha.
There are still lots more blacks I haven't done - oh well, guess I'll just have to go back to Val next year! Unfortunately the top of the glacier was shut all week, which was a shame as I love the Descent run.
Face was in the best condition I've ever skied it, absolutely gorgeous and not a mogul or patch of ice in sight. |
We were in Val in January and the only black i can recall skiing was Epaule du Charvet, santons was closed so we used this to get back to the village at the end of each day. The moguls on the narrow section were murder with tired legs at end of day, but the steep bit was in ok condition and not moguled.
I am an intermediate and managed it fine as did the 3rd week skiing low inter. We had a 2nd week beginner too who was "surviving" it until a boarder took him out his bindings from behind and he fell virtually the entire length of the steep section  He survived with a few cuts, but could have been so much worse.
Don't think i have ever been to a resort where it is so difficult to ski home at end of day.
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You know it makes sense.
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I've just stumbled upon this thread while searching for what happened to 3000. I skied it in Feb 2010 when I had nowhere near enough ability and thought that I was better than I was, it certainly put me in my place! For a start the drag lift is ridiculously steep in places, The first part of the piste is not too steep but has by far the biggest moguls I had ever experienced. Tunnel was open so I went though for a look and simply thought  that! The first part is so narrow followed by very steep and uneven section, I went back to 3000! The part below the tunnel entrance is steep and moguled which I found very difficult after that it levels out and was far less moguled, but that top section! I had hoped to go back there and give it another try, but it doesn't look like I'll have the chance.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 18-06-14 7:21; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Don't think i have ever been to a resort where it is so difficult to ski home at end of day.
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Surely there are plenty of ski areas, including some highly-regarded ones, where either you can't ski back to base or only a few people will be able to do so, part of the time? If people like the wide range of skiing available in the Espace Killy and enjoy the apres ski in Val d'Isere I don't see why the difficulty of skiing home should be such a big issue.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Glenogle wrote: |
Don't think i have ever been to a resort where it is so difficult to ski home at end of day. |
It's why most people go the La Daille end, myself included! Much easier than tackling Face or Santons on tired legs.
Maybe one day I'll try Epaule, if I have a 'feeling confident' day. Hmmm.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A bit of thread necromancy...
The 3000 draglift and Tunnel run have disappeared from the piste map this year, and the 3000 lift looks rather abandoned.
The pylons are still there, and the wire is still up, but there are no buttons at the bottom station.
It all looks a bit abandoned.
Is this now a piece of skiing history, gone for ever?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I guess the 3000 draglift and Tunnel run are but a distant memory, like leather ski boots, wooden skis and wire bindings. Haven't seen them in use for 5 years at least. Maybe there should be a 'I skied the Tunnel' retro badge?
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Ron - each year they change the date on the notice that says the 3000 is shut due to administrative and technical reasons. Whether its gone for good is a moot point. They are remodelling the whole of the Solaise lift system over the next few years and often discussions with the national park authorities operate on a one in one out principle - so perhaps it will be used as another card and then removed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have skied 3000.
Many years ago, when i was younger and dumber... two of us.
would be more accurate to say I 'got down' 3000 , survived 3000 etc. Mercy.
It was difficult to resist going up a draglift with such dramatic warning signage - and the piste didn't look 'all that bad' from down below 
Most astonishingly steep Poma button lift everrrrrr - absolutely bonkers.
Got off at the top and the Tunnel was closed... which was a shame, as the 3000 itself looked like a big no-no.
No choice but to poke the ski tips over the cliff edge, look at the giant moguls and sticks pointing up out of rocks otherwise invisible due to the ridonculous gradient, look at each other swear.
Look over to the far left at an alternative area... but it was so obviously hideous crusty sh@te that the mogul cliff was actually preferable.
Needless to say the liftie was possibly the least busy man on the mountain...
We survived.
(My partner in this folly had also been down Epaule du Charvet with her husband and their regular instructor/guide Woody, who helpfully oferred them the advice - "Don't fall, or you might die" . Ho, ho.)
She agreed we would never do 'that' (ie 3000) again.
Would be a shame if it is closed...
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Never been down 3000, but Epaule is not that bad
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@coops1967, I must have done it on a good day as I can't recall the only time I did it as being that bad, steep but doable. Never saw tunnel open though, I'm sure it's really just a myth 
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I was in Val d'Isere for the first time just over a week ago. High winds meant that much of the resort was closed for much of the week, but I was very pleasantly surprised by the quality of some of the black runs there.
Many resorts seem to feel the urge to slap an unjustified Black label on a bunch of intermediate runs for what seems to be little more than marketing reasons. That's a charge that I certainly wouldn't lay against the Espace Killy. I was delighted to find that they resist the temptation to groom all of their black runs and don't see the need to widen narrow sections.
We stayed in Fornet so our home run was the delightful Foret bump run through the trees. It's a little short, but it's otherwise one of the finest on-piste runs that I've found in a European resort. I also particularly enjoyed Sache running down to Tignes les Breviere - it gives a real sense of desolate beauty and isolation.
Val is definitely a place where a decent skier can have a lot of fun within the piste network. It gets a big thumbs up from me. We will be back.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@HoneyBunny, I fully agree that I am highly unlikely to try Paquerettes or Grizzly based on what folk have said and the same probably goes for Piste S, Epaule, Foret and Silene but with the caveat that good conditions might make them tempting. I am going with a couple of more experienced skiers as well so obviously if they don't fancy something I'm not going to go all kamikaze down it either.
I've also read a lot about how tough Santons is and definitely won't be persuading the wife to give that a whirl.
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Santons is fine, very often great fun, if you do it before late afternoon. It's when it get's chopped up and busy at the end of the day that it can be a pain. Epaule du charvet & piste S can be complete pigs if you haven't got your mogul chops and fitness sorted, I've seen grown men if not in tears then certainly bottom lip a quiver after only 20 meters with no escape option.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Dr John,
Really ??? Narrow, hard snow, crowded, 0000s of folk going sideways ? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ski, plesae, feel free to ignore all the caveats
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@Dr John, I like to the caveats 😀
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dr John, tough for a blue, I meant. My missus is a bit nervy so, with all the stories I've seen of couples arguing because it's harder than expected, I thought best to steer her clear.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@White Fox, my point is that it isn't the Indiana Jones temple run with arrows and trap doors that people claim it is, but if you're not sure, then avoid it. Download in the olympic gondola, or take a cruise down to la daille, have a drink in roses with the locals and seasonnaires and get the (frequent, quick and free) bus bus back to val.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Dr John, @ski, @White Fox,
Santons valley looks perfect for a dam at the bottom and using as a small reservoir. I'd have more fun swimming it. Good when closed, as that usually means there's plenty of snow and risk of avalanche from the ridge above.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@intermediate. Though it may be a good site for a dam, the catchment area above it is rather small and the head below it very limited so it would not make a very successful hydro scheme. BTW I have never actually seen Santons open.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I actually love Santons. It's great fun until you hit the big flat bit at the bottom
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Another +1 for the Face being a total b*****d after being ice prepared. It's probably the only time I've been genuinely scared on a piste anywhere in the world. It was like being on an ice-skating rink angled at 60 degrees. There was no snow at all, all you could see looking down was cold blue ice. Regretted not having had my edges sharpened for a couple of years - I just couldn't slow down, or get to the relative safety of the edge.
I'd like to thank all the people that thought it was hilarious in the lift going overhead!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| HoneyBunny wrote: |
Lots of naturides in Tignes...including a couple of little ones like Grizzly and Aster
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I like to do the top part of Golf and then cut skiers' right onto Lognan for some gentle off-piste* to avoid the narrow section.
*Normal safety caveats apply.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 20-11-15 15:26; edited 1 time in total
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| White Fox wrote: |
| @Dr John, tough for a blue, I meant. My missus is a bit nervy so, with all the stories I've seen of couples arguing because it's harder than expected, I thought best to steer her clear. |
LOL my parents had a massive row many years back, after my dad took mum down Santons.
I think I've only done it one, it was very icy but totally empty .. and quite fun actually as it's a natural half pipe. No-one I've skied with ever wants to go down it though. Piste L is great as well, but it's always shut! I've only been down it once, the one time I saw it open back in March.
I'm slightly tempted to try Epaule next time I'm in Val. If it's no steeper than the steep bit of Sache, I can cope with it.
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| Quote: |
Another +1 for the Face being a total b*****d after being ice prepared. It's probably the only time I've been genuinely scared on a piste anywhere in the world. It was like being on an ice-skating rink angled at 60 degrees. There was no snow at all, all you could see looking down was cold blue ice.
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Makes you wonder why people would launch themselves down it, really!
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| Quote: |
Dr John
snowHead
Posts: 2077
Location: London
@White Fox, my point is that it isn't the Indiana Jones temple run with arrows and trap doors that people claim it is, but if you're not sure, then avoid it. Download in the olympic gondola, or take a cruise down to la daille, have a drink in roses with the locals and seasonnaires and get the (frequent, quick and free) bus bus back to val.
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Oh no, I'm more than happy to try it. The more skeletons with snakes coming out their mouths the better!
| Quote: |
HoneyBunny
White Fox wrote:
@Dr John, tough for a blue, I meant. My missus is a bit nervy so, with all the stories I've seen of couples arguing because it's harder than expected, I thought best to steer her clear.
LOL my parents had a massive row many years back, after my dad took mum down Santons.
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Hehe. Yes, if it's open, I'll do it solo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Santons is marmite! On a quiet Saturday morning it can be great fun, on a busy holiday weekday I would rather be on the Bakerloo line at 0840 ........... I might just go and have a lie down and weigh that last comment up but its close.
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@coops1967, I enjoyed 3000 many years ago, including the steep drag lift. I think snowHeads should mount a campaign to get it reopened.
Not so the Tunnel. Stooping through a corrugated steel tube, then pointing skis down steep ice between rocks, without enough width to turn, not my idea of fun. Glad I did it though, around 1997 the last time. Felt like an escape scene from a war film.
@HoneyBunny, Epaule, in reasonable snow conditions, is one I always enjoy, especially the steep bit. Not as scary as Sache usually IMO. It has a benign looking approach hampered by oddly spaced moguls. Needs a committed tuck at the end, to avoid too long a pole along the path towards Val D. I always choose Epaule in preference to Santons.
Having just seen the last Hunger Games film, even Foret is starting to look easier.
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