 Poster: A snowHead
|
Huckacliff duckabranch, I would say that an "advanced skier" L9 has a lot more to go and is getting to the point where they are beginning to understand that..... If you read the descriptions of 9 -13 can you relate to the breakdowns ? I have footage but not enough to give a good cross section of styles and if i put up a short clip of an L12 for instance that is all people will look at and debate how good or not good the skiers are rather than use the videos as a tool to help them place themselves into the correct training group.
For instance here is a good skier on a bad day https://vimeo.com/45350421 what "level" should he be at? Solely from this short clip one level but if you watch him on the open mountain another perhaps 
Level 10 - Early Expert
I am a strong all round on and off piste skier and can ski most places that are serviced by the lifts.
You can ski all terrain comfortably but are perhaps limited in speed and confidence in some areas. You are probably interested in race training, steep couloirs, instructor exam technical requirements, freeride performance and higher speeds on piste. You are a strong skier but to improve you will need greater all round dynamics and should practice on steeper fall line moguls with an increased range of movements and make higher speed GS sized turns in variable snow conditions. If you teach you are at, or training for, L2 exams and perhaps are getting ready for ISIA level.
Level 11 - Expert
I ski lots during the season and am competent in most areas.
You can adjust your technique to suit all snow conditions and are relaxed and comfortable in difficult off piste terrain and at high speeds on piste. You can adjust turns through subtle changes in range, rate, duration and distribution of inputs. You are humble and know that there is loads more to learn and can feel differences between skis and how they are tuned. You are getting close to being able to ski well whatever the conditions confidently and with ease. Instructors may be at L3 level and perhaps training for ISTD technical exams and the Euro Speed Test.
Level 12 - Athletes & Instructor Trainers
I am a fluid skier with a unique style.
You most likely make a living from skiing or ski most days, exploring different styles and forms of snowsport. You may have have competed in free style, National championships or FIS level Alpine racing competitions. If you teach you are in the top few % of your governing body and probably train other instructors. You are an inspirational skier.
Level 13 - World Class Skiers
I get filmed for movies and race on television
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| For instance here is a good skier on a bad day |
 You're brave!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
rob@rar, he dont do snowheads so im safe 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I think you guys have done a great job of describing and illustrating the skill levels for your own InsideOut clinics and trips. However, I'm not sure I agree with some of the descriptions for the higher levels (10 onwards). IMO I don't think that you need to illustrate beyond expert level - an expert is someone who skis the whole mountain well, in any condition - simple. I think it is difficult to ellaborate more than that without pigeonholing skiers. A good example would be
| Quote: |
You are an inspirational skier.
|
There are plenty of inspirational skiers out there who are not instructors, trainers or racers. Take adaptive skiers for example or those who have come back from serious injury...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
juliad, Not sure i agree, people hear "expert" and think that is the end of the road but really is just a beginning hence our adding a few extra levels to differentiate... for instance a europa cup or world cup skier tends to be leagues better than a good full cert instructor or multi season skier..
fully agree that inspirational doesnt have to be pigeon holed into certain categories, will look at the wording again for that... Sean Rose , the only brit to ever podium in a world cup event did it in a sit ski and watching him rip down the mountain is very inspiring... but i had to limit our descriptions to alpine skiing..
ps, hope you still fancy some touring next season 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
skimottaret, ah but you've already raised the point that an "expert" has an understanding of where they are at in terms of skill aquisition and how they are to continue their development. So clearly not everyone regards the expert level as the end of the road? But if you are trying to provide a grading system for less experienced skiers to aspire to I suppose I can see why you've listed levels 11 12 & 13 individually.
I do think that the inspirational skier description is tricky to use if the context is not right. I've seen some inspirational skiing going on by some instructors out there which is in a different league to some of those with a higher qualification... Also I'm not sure if unique style is the best choice of term to use either? Sorry to pick but just giving my opinion.
Yes, I'll be up for touring next season as La Grave is booked for March!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
juliad, well some "experts" do and some dont... I guess I look at experts like black belts in martial arts, there are 1st level black belts 2nd ... 7th level etc
the wording could be better though, I hadnt put much thought into it as we only have a handful of clients at that level
and as you got me thinking i have done a Early Expert Level 10 video (In BASI terms weak to strong L2's)
Brave of you to book the Assessment, i dont think i will until i get at least 6-8 tours in so count me in for some killer tours partner !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Julia how is this for wording for
11- Expert I ski competently everywhere on the mountain…
You can adjust your technique to suit all snow conditions and are relaxed and comfortable in difficult off piste terrain and at high speeds on piste. You can adjust turns through subtle changes in range, rate, duration and distribution of inputs. You are humble and know that there is loads more to learn and can feel differences between skis and how they are tuned. You are getting close to being able to ski well whatever the conditions confidently and with ease. Instructors may be at L3 level and perhaps training for ISTD technical exams and the Euro Speed Test.
12 - Athletes & Instructor trainers I am a fluid skier with a unique style.
You most likely make a living from skiing or ski most days, exploring different styles and forms of snowsport. You may have have competed in moguls, free style, National championships or FIS level Alpine racing competitions. If you teach you are in the top few % of your governing body and probably train other instructors. You turn heads when you ski by.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
My 2p worth:
Speaking as someone who's still definitely learning skiing, I think your videos are working well for the purpose you've described, at least they enabled me to work out pretty easily where I fit in your levels, which I'm assuming is the point! When reading your written descriptions I wasn't sure if I was a level 5 or 6, but when I looked at the videos it was pretty clear technique wise I am more of a 6 than a 5 (I'm lucky, I have a husband who really enjoys filming me on the slopes so I know what I look like when I ski). As others have said, I really like the fact that you're seeing real people learning as I think it gives a far more accurate description of the levels than an instructor dumbing down (who always look effortless). Essentially I'd say you've got it all right so far.
On a selfish note, I'm just annoyed that we don't have a similar company at my local slope - Braehead. Take it you have no expansion plans?!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not sure I get the example here - you've got a Level 12 skier regardless of whether you nit pick a couple of things you don't like about specific turns or the hunch or whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
skimottaret,
| Quote: |
You turn heads when you ski by.
|
Or in my lads case people just say "Your not going to try and jump that are you"
It must be really difficult to get the grading right at the 11 and over levels, especially when you look at a lot of the super good young skiers who are around 17 to 18, I know some who are very good, if you watched these type of skiers on piste then you would say yep thats a level 10, but when you see them thigh deep on 45 degrees and throwing a couple of back flips on the way down for good measure then they are a 13
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
livetoski, you have a point but a good skier skiing lazily will still look like a good skier. Although it might be difficult to gauge *quite* how good they are they'll still look comfortable and confident. It's always interesting to see someone switch up a gear to either handle something more difficult or to show off to the competition.
On a more general point how much of an advantage does starting young give people? Whilst I know I can still progress a lot further than where I am now (so long as I keep up both the lessons and the fitness) I doubt I'll ever ski with the comfort of someone who learned how to ski as a child. Are there any shining examples of people who learned to ski in their 30s & beyond who are indistinguishable from skiers who started out before they hit the teen years?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Eleanor, awww nice of you to say, not going to braehead anytime soon but you could always join our club and come along on a ski coaching trip 
livetoski, jibbers arent real skiers  but i take your point about people eventually specialising in what they truly enjoy... freestyle, ski mountaineering, powder skiing, hucking cliffs, touring, racing, moguls etc...
juliad, cool will change up ! what did you think of the L10 video ?
little ms spock, i started at 28 and had my first lesson around 41 and i still suck (but sucking far less than i used to)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
skimottaret, well the skier in that video can clearly ski and ski well, he looks well ballanced dynamic enough to able to soak up what the terrain throws at him, thats what i'd say from the short clip of what i see, however i'm not ski coach, but it just looks natural and fluid, do you have any footage of yourself?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Huckacliff duckabranch, so what level would you put him at ? tricky eh
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
skimottaret, i'd need to see him on something steeper and more variable with some camels backs thrown in, before i could give an uneducated guess, what level do you have him as?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Huckacliff duckabranch, would it surprise you to know he had an overall world ranking of 120 th or so and was 24th in the world in his specialist discipline, but everyone has an off day point being that short video clips at expert and higher level arent very telling... you need to see someone on the whole mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Shane Mc Conkey was number 1 extreme skier in the world but we'd both agree his technique was far from perfect, but he could ski anything. it would suprise me yes as he's skiing in a fridge and not out coaching in the alpine,
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
couldnt agree more , guys like him, doug coombes, plake, olhsen, cuiche, miller, etc are all world class have their own styles and impossible to label and put into neat groups so I wont try...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quick thanks to everyone who added comments about the videos and the level descriptions. We've tried to take account of everything that has been said when revising things. The new videos and the updated level descriptions are now available on our website.
Thanks for all your help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| We had our national half marathon last weekend and I managed to finished ... |
Is an achievement in itself, regardless of how many people were behind you
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
I managed to finished 18th in my age group, which doesn't sound that impressive and even less so when you realise there were only 18 runners in my age group...
|
I once came top of my class (pregnant over 35 year old beginners) in a windsurfing race in Barbados.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| little ms spock wrote: |
livetoski, you have a point but a good skier skiing lazily will still look like a good skier. Although it might be difficult to gauge *quite* how good they are they'll still look comfortable and confident. It's always interesting to see someone switch up a gear to either handle something more difficult or to show off to the competition.
On a more general point how much of an advantage does starting young give people? Whilst I know I can still progress a lot further than where I am now (so long as I keep up both the lessons and the fitness) I doubt I'll ever ski with the comfort of someone who learned how to ski as a child. Are there any shining examples of people who learned to ski in their 30s & beyond who are indistinguishable from skiers who started out before they hit the teen years? |
I have no idea how this idea really holds up, having not followed it up at all, but I heard of at leats one study suggesting that the anti-slide reflex in kids only crystallises around age 7 and so if you get them on skis (skates, boards, etc) before then they have a significant hardwired advantage...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
Quick thanks to everyone who added comments about the videos and the level descriptions. We've tried to take account of everything that has been said when revising things. The new videos and the updated level descriptions are now available on our website.
Thanks for all your help! |
Good work. I do find these quite useful. It's a bit distracting that I recognise a lot of people and have skied with them so it's hard to be completely objective but I think they do the job pretty effectively.
I just had a look at your site and one little point. On the "we don't teach this level" sections the grey writing on a blue background is almost impossible to read. I guess you are tring to distinguish between the "what we do" and "what we don't" sections, but it's not pretty. I think it would be better if this was at a higher contrast.
| under a new name wrote: |
| I heard of at least one study suggesting that the anti-slide reflex in kids only crystallises around age 7 and so if you get them on skis (skates, boards, etc) before then they have a significant hardwired advantage... |
Oh well, I guess I won't make it to the Winter Olympics after all...
It won't stop me trying though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| little ms spock wrote: |
| I just had a look at your site and one little point. On the "we don't teach this level" sections the grey writing on a blue background is almost impossible to read. I guess you are tring to distinguish between the "what we do" and "what we don't" sections, but it's not pretty. I think it would be better if this was at a higher contrast. |
Thanks for the feedback. I'm away for a few days, but will change the colour of the font so there's more contrast as soon as I get back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
good job, I like the way the video is linked and pops out from the "What is my level" page.....you guys are getting this web thingie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
I think that's a better way of saying it.
