 Poster: A snowHead
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miranda, If you are working in France, you pay into the French social security system. I lived and worked in France, paid into the system and had no problem receiving the medical treatment I needed when I needed it. The same goes for my time here in Germany and Austria. But I also have travel insurance to cover private clinics if that is all that is available as my state health insurance will only pay for the basic cover in other countries on a pay up front and reclaim basis.
Friends who are permanent residents in France had to rely on the system for emergency treatment for the wife's father in law when he was taken ill. One massive heart attack later, the ambulance to the local clinc and a helicopter transfer to a specialist cardiac intensive care unit, were all covered on their coverage. Other than the normal prescription charges and contributions to some extra services that you would also have to contribute to in the UK, he has not had to pay a penny. He is now a permanent resident too as the care he received and still receives in France is way better than what he would have received in the UK. He. Does not pay into the system but his daughter and some in law do.
To go back to the original post, I suspect that the lady injured found that her costs were not entirely covered when she returned to her home, especially if she had a considerable loss of earnings. The court action is probably an attempt to recover that money and some. All self-employed people here in Germany and Austria are encouraged to take out extra loss of earnings insurance, but many don't thinking it will never happen to me. Maybe she was one of the many and feels that this is a way to recoup her losses.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue, sorry, I'm still confused. If you live and work in France and pay into the social security system, you are still not covered for 100% of your health costs. You are covered for 65% (ish as it changes with different things) at the doctor and 80% at the hospital (unless you have absolutely no money obviously). Right? Not arguing, genuinely asking, what am I missing here? This is why people pay 30 odd euros a month into a mutuelle, so that they are covered for all additional costs. And as for Brits in Europe, you will not get the free treatment that you are used to on the NHS (less your 7.50 prescription), you will have to pay the same percentage of costs as a resident of that country.
Your friend's dad might not have to pay anything, but surely that's because he's old?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| flangesax wrote: |
| In Austria and Germany it is quite normal for people to have liability insurance. |
And UK. Most househould policies cover liability insuarance.
Whether the policy-holders actually know this is a different question....
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Is it possible that health insurance in other European countries such as Germany or France covers them for going to another country due to a reciprocal agreement as with our EHIC or do they simply not think of crossing a border as going abroad. Going from the UK we have to cross over water or under with the tunnel but on the continent you don't really notice which country you are in unless you pass a border control. I lived in Belgium years ago and used to go to Germany and Holland regularly but never thought about being covered if we had been in an accident or taken ill while there.
If people have annual or holiday insurance through their banks they may find that they are covered in the UK as well but must have booked accommodation.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mags2009, I think if you go to another European country from whichever one you are resident in, your EHIC should enable you to the same treatment as a resident of that country (as long as you've not travelled to that country specifically for treatment - I know in France chronic illness is treated for free e.g. cancer or diabetes but you can't travel there from a different country specifically for free treatment). If a resident needs health insurance (or their own cash) to pay a top up over what the state system provides, a European visitor will need to do the same. So, in this thread Sue has said she lives in Germany but went skiing in Austria and hurt herself. She had to pay up on the spot in Austria and then reclaim from her German insurance. I see what you mean about people not psychologically thinking about going abroad... I assumed Europeans travelling to different countries within Europe had some form of cover through their normal health insurance covering them for trips within Europe but maybe not.
I have a friend who has been in a horrible car accident (she is going to be ok). 5 operations within a week, 6 weeks in hospital and, eventually when she is allowed home, 3 months in a wheelchair. On top of all of the crap she has been through, I would not want to be worrying about having to subsequently find 20% of my hospital bills if I hadn't paid a few quid for my travel insurance if that happened to me in somewhere like France.
Actually, I think major emergency surgery might only be charged at 5% in France... but as has been pointed out, this does not get you home again, or more to the point, offer you any help if you're getting sued over the accident.
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Had to use Moutier hospital 3 times now over the last few years for family and friends, EHIC is the first thing they ask for and then the only charges seem to be for X rays and then pharmacy after you have left hospital if needed.
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miranda, hubby's emergency surgery wasn't even 5%, I think the charge was an in-patient fee of 16€ per day and an 18€ one off fee. There might have been an x-ray/MRI scan fee from Briancon hospital too. All of this was covered by travel insurance so I can't remember exact amounts now, but probably less than £400 in total for both hospitals.
Mags2009, other EU countries have EHIC, so yes, they do have reciprocal arrangements.
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miranda, that sounds ghastly. Glad she's going to be OK.
I'm not aware that my family had to pay anything at all in Chambery, not even for x-rays, but I'll find out.
As for Moutiers, my brother-in-law was not in a fit state to make any payments when he left, I don't think. I suppose they might send him a bill now; there again, they were in contact with me after he'd been transferred to Chambery, and all they asked me for was a copy of the EHIC, they didn't mention anything else at all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It sounds more expensive to be less seriously injured! For my own small injury recently, French state clinic X ray + pharmacy knee brace (no meds) alone were almost 3 times the cost of the annual multi-trip, 24 days of skiing, full medical as well as loss/cancellation, travel insurance that I had (I actually had it in place for regular trips to the US rather than France). I don't know what % bracket those sorts of things come under for reclaim - 70%, 80%, 95%....? (100% with travel insurance obviously).
I've just remembered Wayne's uninsured clients who racked up €25k bills in Italy with broken legs (though part of that was obviously rescue) and wondering what difference EHIC would have made to them?
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Pedantica, we were sent J's bills afterwards, which were passed on to the insurer, only the initial visit to the doctor at the bottom of the pistes was paid up front. We were never asked to pay anything by the hospital.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A couple of years ago now we received a 'statement' from CPAM . The amount on the statement was around 10000€, but I am not sure if that was the part not covered by them, or the total amount.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hells Bells, knowing how effective the EHIC was, would you go to France without travel insurance now?
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You know it makes sense.
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miranda, no we wouldn't . In different circumstances the bill might even have been far higher. He may have needed an air ambulance home.
I suspect the bill for an ambulance from Briancon to Grenoble, and Grenoble to Lyon airport to have been quite large, and there was the costs of two business class flights home just after New Year. OK, so the credit card would have covered them, but despite the stress of claiming, it was worth it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Freddie Paellahead wrote: |
| altis, the slightly odd bit is that the collision caused a cuddle - from which she then fell backwards and injured her knee. |
Thats the bit that confused me too, especially as she emerged from his 'blind-spot'. A boarders blind spot is on their heel-side (for those who don't know) so he wouldn't be able to collide into a cuddle and not have seen her. The blind spot thing baffles me a bit too, Only people going faster than you should emerge from the blind spot, overtaking on the heelside. If she was the slower skier, then he should've been aware of her, even if she was travelling at a really oblique angle and he was in a hard heel-turn...
But then these things happen...
Or do they... TO THE CRIMELAB!
*Opening chords of 'Won't get fooled again"*
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Poster: A snowHead
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Richard_Sideways, over the last 40 years I've witnessed more than one odd snowsports accident, the weirdest collisions always seem to involve inexperienced skiers, I once saw a slow speed collision involving one skier going backwards and slightly up hill, go figure 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
I/my insurance got charged €1000 a night (before EHIC) for my stay in Moutiers hospital. EHIC meant only got charged 20% of that so still €200 per night.
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Have to say, the grand a night is more the figure I have heard bandied about when I've been looking into hospital costs in France recently. It seems life-threatening major treatment is charged differently from broken limb repair.
Having been looking into the cost of ACL repair and rehab in France, it would be interesting to know how much this woman is trying to claim for in Austria. I hope the "trauma" aspect was just added in by the OP and not actually part of the claim!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wow! This thread is generally making me feel a tad nervous with all the injuries I'm reading, makes you kind of wonder why we bother with this apparent high risk sport, I always go the whole hog regarding insurance but now beginning to wonder if its just a matter of time before fate comes knocking! 
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Wasn't really life threatening, no intensive care or anything. I think maybe they bumped it up because it was a spinal so nominally more serious/required a specialist?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bobmcstuff, yes, I think it's more expensive if you don't need intensive care as the state picks up the vast majority of the cost of major treatment but only 80% of the cost of less serious hospital treatment (so you got billed € 200 a night whereas life-saving emergency treatment seems to barely cost the patient anything).
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gatecrasher, the injuries mentioned on this thread that required the most surgery and the longest stay in hospital were from a car accident.
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| miranda wrote: |
| gatecrasher, the injuries mentioned on this thread that required the most surgery and the longest stay in hospital were from a car accident. |
miranda, maybe I missed all the other car related injuries, I Wasn't referring to time spent in hospital.
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miranda, makes sense.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gatecrasher, sorry, you're right, skiing is really dangerous and fate will come knocking.
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| Wasn't really life threatening, no intensive care or anything. I think maybe they bumped it up because it was a spinal so nominally more serious/required a specialist? |
Hubbies injury was a broken neck which needed surgery, doesn't come much more serious than that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| This certainly highlights the need to ensure that you have comprehensive insurance cover. |
Not really. What it actually highlights is the need to prevent ambulance chasing, blood-sucking lawyers appealing to an increasingly greedy and cynical section of society. If drive-buy shootings started to make you feel nervous when you're watching the TV, should that encourage everyone to install bullet-proof glass in their windows or would it be better to go after the criminals shooting the guns ?
There are many thousands of skier days in Scotland every year almost every one of which will be 'uninsured'. And we somehow get by. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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moffatross, what would you be able to sue for in Scotland given that healthcare is free? Loss of earnings I suppose..? Or would you just get told to claim statutory sick pay and get on with it in the UK?
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Hells Bells, yeah can't get much more serious than that!
The total cost for mine was astronomical - mostly because they got me a private medical flight home (with just me, a doctor, pilot and copilot on board) - door to door from Moutiers to my house near Bristol in 5 hours! All felt a little excessive to me, but insurers were paying.
A girl I went to school with and knew vaguely broke her back properly while tombstoning in France, had no medical insurance (or did but it didn't cover her for that, I forget) and had to get a charter flight home. Sounded awful.
moffatross, insurance in some form is still useful for organising flights home, covering medical bills, damaged equipment, loss of earnings etc. (assuming you're covered for that). But agreed about the sueing stuff.
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You know it makes sense.
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miranda, "mental anguish" perhaps? Or whiplash?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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bobmcstuff, it's called tombstoning for a reason 
For the record I usually consider my travel insurance, which thanks to annual policies and the excellent small print filtering of snowheads, usually is reasonably affordable one of the better financial purchases I make given that over time it has paid for 2 repatriations from different continents and spared me an $800 bill for stitches in another instance. I don't really give a toss about the frills such as snow guarantees, belongings cover and suchlike more that when a Bolivian doctor tells me I really should try to be operated on by a UK orthopedic specialist I'm in a position to be able to achieve it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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patricksh,
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The major winners here are insurance co's
If you have ploughed 100s or 1000s into holiday insurance over the years you will be retorting back I am a dimwit for pointing this out
But I haven't seen so many Europeans left bleeding to their deaths on french slopes...
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Um, yeah. Insurance is completely useless and a waste of money.... until you have an accident and get hit up with a massive bill! No you don't get left to bleed to death, but you do get presented with a bill at the end of your hospital stay, you don't get repatriated, you don't get a family member able to fly out and help you etc etc. Only a fool (or a very rich man) travels abroad without insurance.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| patricksh wrote: |
| You can't complete an online purchase of a holiday in majorca with some package operators without buying their insurance or stating the name of your insurance company. |
they are not allowed to make you buy their own insurance but I do understand why they insist on getting you to name your insurer in the hope that it might trigger a purchase. People booking packages to Mallorca have almost indetectable common sense and it's the holiday reps and the tax-payer-funded consulates that end up having to help out those eejits that travel uninsured when they inevitably fall off the balcony (estimates vary but 15-20% uninsured is thought to be the range).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't know what I would do in the event of me being caught in this type of situation but the pull to make sure the other person was okay and then skedaddle must be almost overwhelming.
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miranda, I think you misunderstood my post as I wasn't saying to depend on EHIC more the attitude of our European neighbours as I think anyone who goes without travel insurance is crazy. Different countries have different regulations even between Scotland and England there has always been differences.
moffatross, think anyone injured on the ski slopes not from the local area would be treated as a temporary resident.
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EHIC covers you fully for public care in other EU countries but isn't exactly free either. The government of your country foots the bill by recipricol arrangement (although how funds end up being transferred between governments in practice is, of course, very political. Because money doesn't come directly to hospital explains why many try to pressue patients into copayments or using insurance instead
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patricksh, Please can you provide a link to some information stating that the reciprocal arrangement means that UK nationals are fully covered for free public healthcare in other European countries? As I spend a lot of time in other countries, I would really like to get to the bottom of this so I stop wasting money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Richard_Sideways, good link, thanks. I think this is one of the points patricksh may have missed.
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| Remember, each country’s health system is different and might not include all the things you would expect to get free of charge from the NHS. |
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