 Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
Does your OH have the new one or the original Mk 1
|
He has the kind of middle one, I think - not all the latest bells and whistles, but lighter than the original. I am thinking one might extend my skiing life too - I do find that just a few hours on very hard pistes, or very soft ones, means that my knees are very swollen and puffy in the evening. they feel OK when I'm actually skiing, but can't take very much.
| Quote: |
the people I know who have skied for years but always snowplough in anything other than the most benign conditions would find it as hard to progress from snowplough to parallel turns as they seem to.
|
I wonder if that's sometimes because people stop having lessons after the first week or so?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
What has to be un-learned isn't the snowplough, it's turning using a snowplough turn as a default
|
You are missing the point, the plough progression teaches the skills that need to be in place to effectively and safely ski at a higher level. Your post I quoted earler clearly demonstrated that the progression you learned to ski failed most worryingly on the safety side.
| Quote: |
The only downside, with hindsight, was I found paths tough because I didn't have enough room to turn and could only manage them by letting myself go and then emergency stopping every 20 yards. The main upside was that when things got difficult, I didn't have the same tendency as many other beginner/intermediate skiers do, to revert to the tried and trusted snowplough.
|
IMHO that comment shows just why most Internationally recognised ski instructor organisations endorse the plough progression. Its about being safe not just for the student but for other slope users. I read from what you have written that you went from beginner to carving without developing any real rotation or pressure management skills.
You clearly believe that it worked for you and I am not attempting to disabuse you of that as I have not seen you ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
I wonder if that's sometimes because people stop having lessons after the first week or so?
|
Spot on 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Jivebaby wrote: |
| I'm keen to see Rob@rar's response, but glad to hear it has some credibility somewhere! |
Sorry, never used a Mojo so can't really comment. In general anything which helps people ski is a good thing in my book. Only thing I'd be concerned about is if the mojo inhibits downward flex.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Only thing I'd be concerned about is if the mojo inhibits downward flex.
|
I don't think it does, though I'd quite like to try it (and the rate my knees are going, might have little choice soon). Indeed, because it pushes you up nicely after a downward flex I think it might be v helpful in removing a disincentive to flex (ie the struggle to get up again, and the strain that can put on the knees).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
| I read from what you have written that you went from beginner to carving without developing any real rotation or pressure management skills. |
Of course I didn't. I did, though, go from beginner to parallel turner without being taught to snowplough. Have had lots of lessons since the first two I described in my original post. And no instructor has ever taught me to snowplough or [except in one lesson, as the best way to do the narrow start of a particular, tricky black] told me to snowplough.
An assumption has been made, because of my comment about paths, that I was a dangerous skier as a beginner. I expect I was - but I don't think I was any more dangerous than any other 15 stone newbie. I could at least stop - and do so a lot more effectively than with a snowplough - and had been taught the importance / usefulness of skidding/side-slipping. Would teaching me to snowplough turn have made me any safer? I doubt it.
I appreciate most everyone teaches snowplough first and that there are thought to be good reasons for this; that it isn't just because that's the way most everyone is taught and is taught to teach.
OK. Judging from the way the thread is turning into a discussion of XC and Mojos, guess people are getting bored. Would, though, be interested to hear from anyone with personal experience of teaching / being taught both conventionally and in some way other than through snowplough progression.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kitren2005, bored no. Lacking experience in teaching skiing to offer a view, yes.
My own learning to ski experience consisted of learning to side step up (there were no lifts) and slipping down (after the first lesson we tried to avoid the slipping down but sometimes it happened  ) followed by snowplough down, stem turns, stem christie and (IIRC) step turn, followed by parallel and hockey stop turns. Dunno how long this took but not long and I never felt "stuck" in a snowplough. Of course this was in the UK so what seemed like a few weeks of lessons would have taken longer if abroad, not to mention have to re-find my "ski feet" every year. Snowploughing-up/herringboning was also learnt during that time and came in useful later for XC skiing as would step turns but I need more practice to remember and do those on skinny skis  . Still feel a snowplough is useful in confined spaces, e.g. lift queues or narrow runs, as will as being the only way of coping with XC.
Back to DH, after a long break (decade or so) when I restarted skiing (now with novice Mrs Peura) whilst being far from expert I decided that rather than try to get ever more "gnarly" I'd play with telemarking whilst I wait for Mrs Peura to catch up (assuming her health lets her  ).
For her, she learnt the snowplough, etc and now stem turns and is gradually making progress to parallel turns when not too worried. I'm fairly sure that if her instructor had gone straight to parallel in the manner you describe, she'd feel out of control, terrified and would have given up. She IS gradually improving and now looks (in my inexpert opinion) graceful albeit slow and unadventurous. You may think she's "stuck in a snowplough" whereas I suspect if she wasn't she'd/we'd be stuck at home rather than skiing, so IMO it's the lesser of two "evils".
IMVHO (on skiing instruction) people differ in how they learn and whilst some would prefer (and benefit from) a "bolder" approach but learning with the snowplough approach works better for others (maybe??? most).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One of my instructors taught various systems. So he had done the conventional austrian snowplough progression, the USA gliding wedge progression, and a direct to parellel progression. His feeling on it was that no matter what progression you used people just needed time to consolidate. Getting them direct to parallel just had them skiing a low level parallel for that time. No real difference over all the students as to time to being a decent skier. Some learn faster, some slower. On the whole though they take as long as they take. This does of course assume consistent instruction as he did not se a lot of the ones that thought they could do without lessons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
kitren2005,
In your OP you said that the first thing you did was
| Quote: |
told me to lean on one leg and then the other
|
I assume you were either doing this by moving your hip over or rolling your ankles?
peura,
| Quote: |
You may think she's "stuck in a snowplough" whereas I suspect if she wasn't she'd/we'd be stuck at home rather than skiing
|
I think that is a very good reading of the situation for many people especially those that learn to ski later in life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I actually managed to side slip on the nordique skis today, though not with any huge efficiency. Dérapage is the focus of tomorrow's lesson so I was googling for some stuff and came across this interesting link
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/cddp38/skiscolaire/spip.php?article91
with lots of videos of kids demonstrating, or failing to demonstrate (poor little things....) a range of skills including snowploughing and returning skis to parallel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Well done pam w,
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
kevindonkleywood, I've certainly got the impression that she's far from alone. If things were different we might have looked at one of those "cautious skier weeks" organised here or go skiing on the local snowdome/slope but, for her, working is hard tiring enough without doing too much more during most of the year.
pam w, well done. Strangely I often found slide slips, side stepping, herringboning slightly easier whilst XC that DH, although I suspect that's because, in general, the snow on XC routes is softer than the DH pistes (at least way where we go). Snowploughs and turning/speed-control in general didn't seem more challenging though
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
peura, I certainly couldn't blame my incompetence on the snow, which was v nice. Herringboning certainly easier on XC skis because they weigh so little - easy to do quite long ascents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I can imagine that if I were a beginner now, even in the days of super easy carvers, a snow Plough turn and stop would still be a lot more comforting than going straight to parallel. I still use it sometimes for coming to a complete halt in crowded chairlift queues and putting my hands through the ski pole straps when coming off the lifts. and sometimes on paths when the skier in front is doing the same and there is no place to pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
howtosnowski, Hmm. A work in progress?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
After years of trying I could actually snowplough properly this year. Found it most useful in addition to parallel skiing. Family were shocked and amused.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
