 Poster: A snowHead
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leedsunited, My other half is French, and he's very nice, as his his family. In fact France is a lovely country and many of the people in it are very nice. I feel sorry for them having to put up with rude, ignorant Brits who refuse to even attempt to speak their language. I have never understood the British xenophobic attitude to the French, I've met more rude British people than French.
Yes the French resorts are generally quite expensive. In fact I was annoyed at a policy I found in quite a few restaurants in Tignes where they charge you 15 Euros for one thing on the menu plus a small drink. I object to paying 15 Euros for a bowl of soup and a coke, that IS a rip-off.
Generally France isn't *too* bad if you choose where you eat carefully, but I do find prices in Austria FAR more reasonable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Flicking through the TO brochures, the actual holiday and lift pass costs seem reasonably comparable across France, Italy, Austria and to some extent, Switzerland. There are some standout exceptions to this; St Anton, Courchevel, Val D'Isère, Ischgl, Zermatt, Verbier. So I'm guessing the real cost issue is drinking and dining out, plus food on the mountain.
My only personal issue with skiing in France has been type of accommodation and drab, soulless, lifeless resort villages, but in fairness I only have trips to Tignes and La Plagne to formulate this view. Méribel and Val D'Isère are much nicer resorts, but a bit too British. Naturally I can't fault the extent of the skiing although some French resorts seem to have a habit of undergrading pistes leading to some nasty surprises.
I suppose my first choice would always be Austria but I'm quite prepared to be open-minded about Serre Chevalier next season, what I've heard so far sounds spot on.
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Piccadilly, spot on.
I sometimes wonder how many of the people who bang on about prices in French ski resorts are Londoners. Like one can't, without trying too hard, get ripped off in London?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I have never understood the British xenophobic attitude to the French, I've met more rude British people than French
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And ive never met a french person with a sense of humour 
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| Quote: |
| Another thread full of tired generalisations |
Maybe, only equalled by the number of vested interests, the usual suspects, telling anyone with an unbiased but negative view of France they're wrong.
Plus ca change............
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leedsunited,
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And ive never met a french person with a sense of humour
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Perhaps its beacause of your self,,, if I have a few time seen english hooligans outside a footballstadium, I will never say that most english are like that,,
this is a stupid discussion, the most Scandinavian, english, french and rest of europen people are nice and welcome everybody to theit country 
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| freeheelskier wrote: |
leedsunited,
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And ive never met a french person with a sense of humour
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Perhaps its beacause of your self,,, if I have a few time seen english hooligans outside a footballstadium, I will never say that most english are like that,,
this is a stupid discussion, the most Scandinavian, english, french and rest of europen people are nice and welcome everybody to theit country |
My next door neignbours ferret is very freindly but i dont like it.
Wouldnt know about footbal hooligans as i dont like football and have never attended a game. 
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 2-05-11 13:00; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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leedsunited,
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And ive never met a french person with a sense of humour
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Is that a joke?
BCjohnny, I entirely agree that this another thread full of tired generalisations, but have no vested interest in France whatsoever.
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Well they didnt get Eddie Izzard did they!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
ive never met a french person with a sense of humour
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Given that you evidently don't speak any of their language, how would you know?
The French are all individuals, like everyone else. Do grow up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, not thinking of you in particular, indeed not thinking of you (in this context) at all................
I'm quite happy for people to have a positive view of France, it just seems, as usual, some are really not happy for others to have a negative view, end of.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
ive never met a french person with a sense of humour
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Given that you evidently don't speak any of their language, how would you know?
The French are all individuals, like everyone else. Do grow up. |
J'ai eu assez de temps pour apprendre en français travaille avec la légion étrangère
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You know it makes sense.
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leedsunited,
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J'ai eu assez de temps pour apprendre en français travaille avec la légion étrangère
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Could just imagine it, there's no genius,,,,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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leedsunited, I had enough time for to learn in French work with the Foreign Legion? 
Nice try but no cigar.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lizzard,
No, I cannot speak French, but when you put it into google translate it makes sense. Well in a fashion 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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1. Supply = France has the best liftserved skiing in the world = better quality = higher prices;
2. Demand = France megaresorts gets lots of Brits afraid to complain = even higher prices.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BCjohnny wrote: |
Hurtle, not thinking of you in particular, indeed not thinking of you (in this context) at all................
I'm quite happy for people to have a positive view of France, it just seems, as usual, some are really not happy for others to have a negative view, end of. |
As it happens, I have a fairly negative view of Austria, but when I try to express it, it just sounds silly, so I don't do it. 
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| Whitegold wrote: |
1. Supply = France has the best liftserved skiing in the world = better quality = higher prices;
2. Demand = France megaresorts gets lots of Brits afraid to complain = even higher prices. |
There's a lot in what you say. I'd better go and take an aspirin or something. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| BCjohnny wrote: |
Hurtle, not thinking of you in particular, indeed not thinking of you (in this context) at all................
I'm quite happy for people to have a positive view of France/Austria/Italy/Switz/USA/Canada et al, it just seems, as usual, some are really not happy for others to have a negative view, end of. |
As it happens, I have a fairly negative view of Austria, but when I try to express it, it just sounds silly, so I don't do it. |
There, fixed it for you.
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| I sometimes wonder how many of the people who bang on about prices in French ski resorts are Londoners. |
Interesting observation. Last time I spent any real time in the French Alps, not one of the mega-resorts but one mentioned on this thread a couple of times, I got to know a connected local over a few days/vinos/beers, and by the end of the week he was talking quite candidly. His opinion was that the numbers of people coming from SE England, London in particular, was indeed helping fuel the price bubble, and prices would continue to go up and up until the tipping point was reached. Then they might just look at it, but until then if these people were going to keep coming over chucking their money around, they were going to have it taken off them. No malice in his words, just business.
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BCjohnny, that too is interesting. It's being aware of reaching the tipping point which is tricky, though: some locals I spoke to in Courchevel a year or so ago opined that some operators there had failed to gauge it correctly and were on the point of going bust as a result, because the punters had finally stopped coming back to be ripped off.
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There's a point of view effect going on here - when you're selling it's what the market will stand and legitimate business practice. When you're the one being asked to pay, suddenly it's a rip-off.
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I think that France offers very good value for money so all you skiers who are thinking of coming to ski in the Dolomites please dont as you will not enjoy it and will be ripped off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
Piccadilly, spot on.
I sometimes wonder how many of the people who bang on about prices in French ski resorts are Londoners. Like one can't, without trying too hard, get ripped off in London? |
when it comes to easting out, i feel i get bad value for money more often outside london than in it
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Arno, indeed. Restaurant dining standards are, generally, much higher in London than in the rest of the country.
BCjohnny, interesting, but not the whole picture. Londoners, while we're all generalising like crazy, are more demanding in terms of quality product and service, and by and large have a very good feel for what qualifies as value for money. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone who lives in London works in the City and gets massive bonuses, cos it's a very weak and lazy cliché. How is that to be factored into the equation?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dr John,I wasn't generalizing about London, I mentioned it because I know it well and am perfectly certain that it is full of extortionately expensive but crappy restaurants. It is also full of restaurants which are brilliant value (especially at lunchtime.)
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Don't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone who lives in London works in the City and gets massive bonuses, cos it's a very weak and lazy cliché. How is that to be factored into the equation?
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Obviously not everyone who lives in London works in the City, but it's a fair assumption that those who do, and who ski, aren't going to be too worried about what they spend. However, that's not the sort of British skier who concerns me in this debate, but rather the sort who thinks that ordering spag bol, chips and pop anywhere in France is getting the best possible value for money.
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Is there a danger though that in the bigger, more popular, expensive resorts in Europe in France Switzerland, Austria and Italy, if Brits move out, other nationalities such as Russians will (are?) move in sustaining the high prices. I'm talking here of the likes of the 3/4 Valleys, Espace Killy, Zermatt, St Anton, etc. Prices will therefore will remain high.
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You know it makes sense.
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Colin B, good point.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Colin B wrote: |
| Is there a danger though that in the bigger, more popular, expensive resorts in Europe in France Switzerland, Austria and Italy, if Brits move out, other nationalities such as Russians will (are?) move in sustaining the high prices. I'm talking here of the likes of the 3/4 Valleys, Espace Killy, Zermatt, St Anton, etc. Prices will therefore will remain high. |
good point x2 then all you moaning southerners will have to slum it in the pryenees as you wont be able keep up with the fur coat brigade so stop moaning save up a bit more and go skiing and enjoy yourself.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frankly 250 roubles for a pint is f*ck all 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you go to ski rather than while away the hours in fancy eateries, you can afford the mountains served from top resorts by using a TO catered chalet deal and it can offer much better value than self-catering / eating out or using a hotel.
I've stayed in HB catered chalets 100 metres from the snowfront at Courchevel 1850, near the town centre at St Anton, at Arc 2000 2 minutes away from the snow and in the centre of Ischgl, all of which are sought after destinations / all during the 1st week of the English Easter school holidays and have never paid more than £600 to £800 total including a 6 or 7 day lift pass. Add a (little) bit of beer money and 10 Euros for a lunchtime meal and the total is perhaps £120 per day. A skiing day trip in Scotland costs me about £80 including lift pass, fuel & lunch and £120 is about what my employer pays for B&B'ing us overnight in a hotel in Birmingham or Heathrow.
Basically, skiing in most resorts can be good value unless you're fussy about what & where you eat.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In the last 3 years I've done done SC DIY trips at February half term to Zermatt (09), Laax (10) and St Anton (11). All have worked out to be a very reasonable price ((£400 - £450 each for travel/transfer/accommodation). Passes, food etc hasn't cost too much either. The only reason I haven't been to France for those is to avoid the February crowds.
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| moffatross wrote: |
| <snip>Add a (little) bit of beer money and 10 Euros for a lunchtime meal<end snip> |
IME, it's the 10 euros for a lunchtime meal that's not always possible - or rather, for 10 euros the food will in general be awful in france. In Italy, 10 euros will get you a beautiful pizza from a proper woodfired stone based pizza oven. I'm almost drooling just remembering it...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| nbt wrote: |
| In Italy, 10 euros will get you a beautiful pizza from a proper woodfired stone based pizza oven... |
Couldn't that be more symptomatic of the nature of the resort than its hosting nation ? Traditional (with homegrown artisans) villages are the mainstay of the most popular Austria & Italian ski resorts whereas the most popular French megaresorts are purpose built (with imported seasonal Jack-of-all-trades labourers).
If there's either not a heavy demand for the mountain restaurant (e.g. those on the mountain at La Grave) or you can get off the mountain & get to the town / village to eat in France, your 10 Euros will go much further. Certainly that's been my experience at Serre Chevalier's villages & down at Bourg St Maurice & Villaroger in Les Arcs, Deux Alpes village itself. Three Valleys was hideous in that respect though as you seemed to be just a captured punter in an artificial universe everywhere a ski run will take you.
Locals will always be able to wheel out the odd exception to the don't eat up the hill in France rule but a town / village will invariably offer more choice & usually better value, better service & more space too.
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| Quote: |
| Don't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone who lives in London works in the City and gets massive bonuses, cos it's a very weak and lazy cliché. |
I don't.
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| Some locals I spoke to in Courchevel a year or so ago opined that some operators there had failed to gauge it correctly and were on the point of going bust as a result, because the punters had finally stopped coming back to be ripped off. |
And there in lies the conundrum.
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I have a fairly negative view of Austria, but when I try to express it, it just sounds silly, so I don't do it
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We don't get this sort of stupid thread about Austria because people seem to have the wit to realise that there's a huge range of Austrian resorts, from expensive and swanky to simple and low-cost. And that having visited two of them doesn't qualify them to generalise about the rest.
And I can't imagine anybody who doesn't speak German saying that they'd never met an Austrian with a sense of humour. Sniping at the French has been a national pastime for centuries, hasn't it?
The irony is that, on the whole, the French seem to admire many British qualities. Such as the "phlegm".
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| nbt wrote: |
IME, it's the 10 euros for a lunchtime meal that's not always possible - or rather, for 10 euros the food will in general be awful in france. In Italy, 10 euros will get you a beautiful pizza from a proper woodfired stone based pizza oven. I'm almost drooling just remembering it... |
Hate to break the news, but in VT last week it cost me 11 euros for the same. One of the better pizzas I've eaten in the last few months, and I've got through a fair few. I'll live with an extra euro to be in VT with snow and lifts open vs almost every other resort we looked at without.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BCjohnny wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Don't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone who lives in London works in the City and gets massive bonuses, cos it's a very weak and lazy cliché. |
I don't.
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| Some locals I spoke to in Courchevel a year or so ago opined that some operators there had failed to gauge it correctly and were on the point of going bust as a result, because the punters had finally stopped coming back to be ripped off. |
And there in lies the conundrum. |
I was under the impression that 1850 was struggling because of a very large number of property buyers who simply didn't need and want to rent out their property. The reduced number of available rentals meant that prices rose due to demand staying the same (approximately) as previous years, but when prices go up, demand falls. It fell too far.
There was mention when we were there, though I don't know if it can be substantiated, that the local council and business owners associations were fighting any attempt by rich Russians to buy any more property in the resort, and that Meribel had taken steps to avoid the same happening after seeing the fate of 1850.
The irony is that 1650 has very similar access, much more reasonable prices, decent nightlife, and a range of options for accommodation. So there's no real reason why 1850 should be struggling, most people staying in 1650 will spend a fair amount of time in 1850 ski area anyway, and people will come over from the other two valleys.
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Monium, where did you get the 10e pizza - was it a simple one? we paid around 14 for Reine or something similar with a few toppings - all very good but pricy
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