 Poster: A snowHead
|
Interesting reading as I've also never fancied Austria. I prefer cheese and wine to beer and meat  and never been into that thigh slapping apres thing. I'd quite like to try St Anton though, isn't that pretty big? I always thought it was comparable with a fair size French resort in area...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
firebug, The ski routes, as you may have gathered, were originally (mostly black) pistes but were regraded - so add those two together.
boabski, do those include the Lech / Zurs area? I suspect not, so that would add a great deal more.
And the off-piste is huge. Really the only comparison is with the the top 2 or 3 French mega-resorts or Zermatt/Cervinia or the Verbier complex.
It is my favourite resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
snowball,
| Quote: |
do those include the Lech / Zurs area? I suspect not
|
It does include the Lech/Zurs area too.
Can never decide if St Anton or Oberlech is my favourite place on this planet
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Yes, I've heard a lot of people recommend it. Definitely on the list! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
robboj, but for *residents* not visitors.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| ousekjarr wrote: |
Likewise with kids - if they can't carry their kit, they're not old enough to ski.
|
That's one of the funnies things I've ever read - you don't have kids do you 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kitenski, where does it say that though, I can't see it? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| robboj wrote: |
| kitenski, where does it say that though, I can't see it? |
on the aa link
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| snowball wrote: |
But St Anton, as I mentioned, is only linked by serious off piste or a short(ish) bus ride. |
Ahhh, my bad. I misread your post and thought you were talking about the link between Lech & Zurs. You are very correct - there are only serious off-piste connections between StA and Zurs (via off the back of Valluga), or the other way, from Zurs to Stuben, via Himmeleck. Most find the (free) blue bus connection a much more palatable alternative.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| kitenski wrote: |
| robboj wrote: |
| kitenski, where does it say that though, I can't see it? |
on the aa link |
Can't find it there either? Seems to be the same message as the Austrian Government site with no mention of exemption for non residents or vistors?
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/austria.pdf
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| andyph wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| andyph wrote: |
Wait a minute. Just noticed the snow-chains thread concerning Austrian requirements. So if I've go this right, my car with regular tyres and snow-chains is legal in snow and ice but not slush, when the only legal set up is 4 winter tyres?  Well screw that for a game of soldiers. |
AIUI, the winter tyres are only required for residents, but are recommended for everyone. |
OK, it's back on again.  |
Quite so
| The AA wrote: |
Winter tyre and snow chain requirements
The information in the table below applies to vehicles not exceeding 3500kg only.
This chart shows only specific winter requirements and should be read in conjunction with the general compulsory equipment chart and the general touring tips for the country of interest.
Tyre tread
Check all tyres for condition, pressure and tread depth. Where winter tyres are fitted a minimum tread depth of 3mm is required in most countries (the Czech Republic now requires 4mm). For other tyres, while the legal minimum is 1.6mm the AA recommends at least 3mm of tread for winter motoring, and certainly no less than 2mm.
Country: Austria
Winter tyres: R(1)
Snow chains: R(7)
R = recommended.
(1) = Winter tyres are compulsory for residents from 1 November to 15 April and if roads have a covering of snow, slush or ice outside these dates.
(7) = Must be used between 1 November and 15 April on snow/ice covered roads if winter tyres not fitted. |
I got in touch with the AA about this last year, and, personally, I am satisfied their web site is kept up to date. sH can choose for themselves whether they accept this information, or strident claims in this forum that it is incorrect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
The AA should also mention that the police can order you to stop in certain winter conditions not suitable for chains if you do not have winter tyres.
Winters here are not the couple of cm of snow that quickly melts you see back in the UK, roads here are often covered in ice / compressed snow for months.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Haha this topic must be challenging the "Should I get my rental car from the French or Swiss side at GVA?" and "Which overnight stop near Reims?" 
The way I see it is that since each country sets its own regulations for vehicles, only those registered or imported into a country *must* comply, and all visiting vehicles should be sensibly equipped, but legal in country of registration. Else you'd have to change your tyres or whatever at every border crossing. So Austria cannot require you to have M+S tyres, but *can* stop you from driving up a mountain pass in a blizzard if the car is clearly unsafe to drive in such conditions.
Since the OP of this topic mentioned driving in the last 2 weeks of the "season", I wouldn't change tyres. But then I have to have M+S so just keep them on anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| DB wrote: |
The AA should also mention that the police can order you to stop in certain winter conditions not suitable for chains if you do not have winter tyres.
Winters here are not the couple of cm of snow that quickly melts you see back in the UK, roads here are often covered in ice / compressed snow for months. |
While that is undoubtedly true, it is when you do have UK type road conditions that there is an issue.
When there is ice/compressed snow, chains are fine, it is when the roads have slush on them that chains can't be used, but nor are summer tyres allowed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
[crash] OK, as this has come up again - does anybody have any idea what the setup will be with rental cars at Munich airport? I can obviously request snowchains which I will, but would rental cars in that part of Germany usually have all weather tyres or not? I am hoping yes but am also thinking it will be very difficult to get any actual confirmation before arriving at the desk. If anybody has rented there, I would be grateful to know your thoughts.
Ta
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
From 15 Nov to 31 March? (forget the exact dates) German cars should have "all season" tyres (presumably M+S?) or better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| DB wrote: |
| ....Winters here are not the couple of cm of snow that quickly melts you see back in the UK, roads here are often covered in ice / compressed snow for months. |
Don't be patronising. I have driven in extremely bad conditions. I don't need you to tell me about winter snow conditions in the mountains; I don't think the AA does, either.
The advice has been given by the AA and you and others. I think we can make our minds up for ourselves. I also think this one got heavily thrashed last season, so this thread should be allowed to drift back on topic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
achilles, Probably right but I could forsee problems in arguing the AA view over that of the Austrian Government with an over-zealous Polizei.
Academic in my case, but I can see why someone with 'summer' tyres would be prepared to chance it rather than buy 4 new tyres.
On the other hand what if you chanced it, didn't get stopped but then caused an accident and your insurer didn't pay out? Thats gonna cost a hell of a lot more than four M&S tyres 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a subject that I have long been trying to get a definate answer to. I agree that the Austrian Government site is totally non specific as to how this law applies to visitors. It does however say that ALL Vehicles must have winter tyres OR snow chains fitted - from this I take it that all vehicles means exactly that and includes vehicles from other countries. The problem of course comes when you have slush as chains are not applicable in this situation. I live in Austria and as I understand it, if you are involved in an accident and you do not have the correct tyres / chains fitted then regardless of anything else - THE ACCIDENT IS YOUR FAULT. The fines are also very very high if you are caught driving without the correct tyres fitted or without having snow chains. I have even asked a local policeman and was told that visitors are ok if they have chains but is there any guarantee that this policeman understood the exact letter of the law. For those who are intending to drive over here (and certainly for those who do this on a regular basis) I would say that the sensible thing to do is to buy a set of winter tyres, have them fitted to a second set of rims (cheap to buy off ebay) and then simply swap tyres as and when required. This investment is only £500 - £600 and purely from a safety point of view well worth the money. Winter tyres give you so much more grip and braking stability that I would not drive without them if there is a chance of snow. Many of us will be driving here with children in the car and I think that such a small investment to protect not only yourself but also your children is very small. Once you have the spare rims and winter tyres they should last you for several years so in reality we are talking about £150 per year to totally comply with the Austrian Law and make the car much safer in winter conditions. If you have ever tried to fit snow chains in freezing conditions at night I am sure you will think this is a small cost indeed!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
andy, Ta, that was exactly what I needed to know!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
..someone shoot me ...please
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Frosty the Snowman, I would, happily. But yelims is down at the moment. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Bang Ha!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| alex_heney wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
The AA should also mention that the police can order you to stop in certain winter conditions not suitable for chains if you do not have winter tyres.
Winters here are not the couple of cm of snow that quickly melts you see back in the UK, roads here are often covered in ice / compressed snow for months. |
While that is undoubtedly true, it is when you do have UK type road conditions that there is an issue.
When there is ice/compressed snow, chains are fine, it is when the roads have slush on them that chains can't be used, but nor are summer tyres allowed. |
In 14 years spent driving in the UK and 9 years driving in Austria I've only been in one UK snowstorm that resembled a winter storm here in Austria. A couple of cm's of slushly snow once in a blue moon isn't normally too much of a problem, especially of it melts within 24 hrs. When conditions are uniform there isn't too much of a problem either, as you say chains can be used on ice / compacted snow. In reality conditions are not uniform the same stretch of road can have ice, compacted snow, slush or bare tarmac. The wind can blow snow onto sections of the road and the sun can melt sections. People with winter tyres are able to hold off putting on the chains until conditions get really bad, people with summer tyres often put chains on too late or leave them on too long (leading to chain breakage). Normally put my winter tyres on early as I'm off to the glaciers in Oct / Nov but can remember one season when the snow and winter conditions came early catching many people out. Cars tried to accelerate from the lights and just slid sideways. One car hit the kerb and flipped over. Black ice conditions are also more likely here as the ground is much colder than the UK but we see more sunshine. A top layer of melted ice on a hard underlayer that is not thick enough to enable the use of snowchains occurs much more often here - dangerous enough with winter tyres but lethal with summer tyres. Must admit I thought winter tyres were overkill until I went through my first winter here.
If you are staying on main well used routes you will more than likely be OK but if you are heading deep into the mountains during the colder months with summer tyres it will probably be very risky.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Where we go and stay ( up in the top of the resort ) needs winter tyres and as we do it so regularly, we get quite a few trips per season out of them.
However, for that one-off trip, I would have chains. We also like to drive around on a bit of a road trip so they ( winter tyres ) really come into their own here on high passes that haven't been cleared yet.
As with many things, you have to make decent decisions so if the autoroutes are getting snow that is beginning to settle, you should think about chains or stopping. Take no note of cars speading past you as they may well have winter tyres. Also, if the police are out, then they will make the choice for you, if you haven't taken the hint so far.
So, the minimum is that you need to have chains and be prepared to use them.. and be prepared to lose time and wait for the road to be cleared.
It is the winter in the alpes and it is common sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| achilles wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| ....Winters here are not the couple of cm of snow that quickly melts you see back in the UK, roads here are often covered in ice / compressed snow for months. |
Don't be patronising. I have driven in extremely bad conditions. I don't need you to tell me about winter snow conditions in the mountains; I don't think the AA does, either.
The advice has been given by the AA and you and others. I think we can make our minds up for ourselves. I also think this one got heavily thrashed last season, so this thread should be allowed to drift back on topic. |
Sounds like you just don't want to fork out the cash for winter tyres that will make it safer for you, other people in your vehicle and other people on the roads. Sorry if what I wrote came over patronising but trust you don't mind me saying your posts on this subject come over selfish with very little regard for the safety of others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
DB, I don't mind at all. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
achilles,
For the record .....
10 years ago I would of probably driven from the UK to Austria with summer tyres and chains. Based on what I know now about the Austrian winter conditions, very grey legalities, insurnace issues, summer tyre performance in winter conditions etc I wouldn't. I change to winter tyres every season and the performance difference in cold weather is like night and day. I state my opinion here not to be patronizing but to make sure people know what they are letting themselves into (something the AA website in my opinion doesn't) and what risks/issues are involved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Deliaskis wrote: |
[crash] OK, as this has come up again - does anybody have any idea what the setup will be with rental cars at Munich airport? I can obviously request snowchains which I will, but would rental cars in that part of Germany usually have all weather tyres or not? I am hoping yes but am also thinking it will be very difficult to get any actual confirmation before arriving at the desk. If anybody has rented there, I would be grateful to know your thoughts.
Ta
D |
I made an expensive mistake last year. Cars at Munich Airport do not come with winter tyres or chains on them unless you request them. They asked me if I was taking the car to Austria. When I said yes they said that I had to take a car with winter tyres. They had no cars with winter tyres on, so I'd have to wait around until they had one available which did.
I ended up having to (a) wait around for a couple of hours and (b) take an expensive upgrade to get on my way.
There were several other people who got caught out in the same way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Lager, I was under the impression that the rental companies had to have winter tyres fitted (per other comments in other threads). I am renting from Munich to go to Kappl and have requested chains but was lead to believe that if they were trying to request extra payment for winter tyres they were conning you, as by law they must be fitted anyway?
And so the saga continues
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
boabski, surely if you are renting in Germany then German laws would apply, ie they won't have an Austrian vignette for example, therefore charging extra for winter tyres seems ok for me?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
boabski, Not sure about Munich... but for alpine towns or cities above a certain height, like Lucern, for example, at 450m, I believe, then there will be a local law the says that residents should have Winter tyres from this period to that period...typical late Oct to late mar or whatever, I doubt that Munich car hire would HAVE to have all cars with winter tyres by law..it depends where the cars go and when..
You wouldn't want to be banging out winter tyres on non winter raods all the time, so you would have to swap around and stock all the types you need and this just wouldn't be practicable financially..IMO.
But anyway, if they offer winter tyres as an upgrade, I'd be tempted to take it..rather than chains..
We de-railed this thread enough yet..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What is a winter tyre is also a grey area. As I understand it in Germany an M&S tyre will do but in Austrian an M&S tyre is only OK with a certain amount of tread depth. I'd be inclined to ring the car hire place and make sure I was given a vehicle with tyres bearing a snowflake/mountain symbol. If you say another car hire firm is offering a better deal including winter tyres it's possible they may waive the winter tyre surcharge.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=44039&highlight=tread
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, JT, Agreed - way off thread but hoefully just to draw a line under this I was advised by Sixt that all cars will be fitted with winter tyres automatically in Munich airport. This was from the UK call centre for foreign car hire. I have now sent an email to the reservations dept in Deutschland for written confirmation - we'll see what comes back . It was Lager, 's comments that gave me a bit of a concern
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I'm sitting at the pc round my Mum's house in England at the mo... reading this thread and looking at all the piccies makes me feel all touristy and really want to go on a ski holiday... then I remembered I live in a ski holiday!
Where you 'should' go skiing was created by and has been controlled by the TOs for so many years. Until pretty recently, with the introduction of 'low-cost' airlines and decent roads (plus decent cars that can do the journey) the Brits went where they were told and paid what had to be paid.
IMO this bubble-wrapped the Brits into all-in-one areas offering (what is seen by the rest of Europe) all those luxuries.
The standard enquiry from a German or a Dutch holidaymaker tends to be 'have you got parking' and 'are you in the middle of all the different areas'. There is no fear of the driver not being able to get drunk as he has to drive home, there is the acceptence that Ski-to can actually limit your skiing area and there is the embracement of a free bus service should you not wish to drive.
I offer a shuttle service that can take punters to the lifts and pick 'em up afterwards (even from a different place should they phone). The only people who seem to want this service is the British (the others are either driving or bussing).
I think that part of it maybe the 'holiday' bit. Some people want to get out on the slopes early, return late and then hit the slopes again... less of a 'holiday' and more of a 'trip to ski' ??... I dunno...
When I go on a TO summer holiday I never stay all inclusive and would never book myself into a 'sandals' type of hotel. They have a beach, a bar, loads of food and good service but having flown all the way to the destination it just doesn't seem right.
Anyhow, yeah Austria is good but only for some people who want to go to Austria....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| boabski wrote: |
| just to draw a line under this |
Ooh, dangerous.
I was starting to wonder how long it would be before every thread in this forum was about tires. Then it only takes someone to go from this forum to another one without washing their hands....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
's that it takes Chamonix's pants down and gives it a right good scelp (or words very close to that effect). Plus you have the apres - loads of choice - you can get involved with the Eurocheese stuff that the Mooserwirt blurts out (and after 3 beers is fantastic) or more chilled places like Cafe Anton and several venues with decent live music.
