 Poster: A snowHead
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It still begs the question of why the TO hadn't hedged against currency fluctuations. Since this is their business, it seems a fairly obvious thing to do.
Frankly its like one of us not taking out travel insurance, and no-one on here would advocate that as a way of cutting your costs (of a holiday). So why feel sorry when a company takes risks and then when they don't work out, attempts to pass them on to us??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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magic_hat, Good news.
Well done for standing up to them.
And a fairly well done to them for not trying it on once they realised they didn't have a case. Some companies would have pushed it to the point where you initiated legal action, rlying on the fact that most people wouldn't.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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6 X £32 = £192
After all the bad publicity on here, then they dropped it, bet they wished they hadn't tried it on in the 1st place. But how many bookings will have had this applied and took it on the chin.
To coin a phrase ' At least Dick Turpin wore a mask'
nuff said
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magic_hat bet you'll be having some converstions with fellow travellers !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| achilles wrote: |
| if SA goes bust |
Which is exactly why i considered askings the mods to either remove this thread or black out the company names.
What they did and how they acted was far from ideal. It took me far to long to get a response from them (i now know that they were obviously having a bit of a panic about the wrong T&Cs having been displayed for god knows how long) and i only did get a response in the end because I didn't just let it go and pay up.
It did get sorted in the end and i don't think that waiving my charge is going to hurt any company too badly... however, a thread like this (especially as it gets returned on search engines) may hurt future bookings for the TO and this isn't what i would want.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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magic_hat, congrats on a result, particularly since it didn't involve lawyers and court. Enjoy that extra beer or three! 
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| magic_hat wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| if SA goes bust |
.........i don't think that waiving my charge is going to hurt any company too badly... |
For one individual set of bookings, no. Collectively, if they apply to everyone else in a similar situation, it will at best hit cash flow - a lot. At worst, it might wipe out the profit on each holiday - see the scrolling text on this page. There are various messages, but one is:
"How profitable is your company? 2.9% pre-tax margins are the current average in your industry"
| Quote: |
| however, a thread like this (especially as it gets returned on search engines) may hurt future bookings for the TO and this isn't what i would want. |
Were I cynical, I might sum up by observing that you raised this thread to help exert pressure on SA not to pass on the major increased cost of the Euro, but you would now like the thread removed, because if others see it follow your example, the company may not be around for you to enjoy your holiday. But that would be too cynical by far. Wouldn't it?
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achilles,
That is hugely unfair.
Have a look at my original post - it was merely a comment on what had happened to me and asking if anyone else was in the same situation. I wanted to know mainly if it was just my company that was doing this or if it was a widespread practice. I had never ever heard of a currency surcharge before and had no experience of it. I do not have a problem with companies levying a currency surcharge, if customers are made aware that this might happen - i was not.
It then developed into a 4 page monster - most of the 4 pages fuelled by others.
I did not name the companies concerned until quite late in the thread, and only then because a few different posters had asked me to name them.
I did not create the thread to assist me in exerting pressure on SA and in fact have not, on any occasion, even mentioned this thread to them or used it to exert pressure on them.
My reasons for considering removing this thread are not in any way related to concerns for my own holiday. I a decent person and believe that everyone makes mistakes. The company tried to levy a charge against me that they had no right to charge. I argued it, they admitted (eventually) that they had made a mistake, and they agreed to lift the charge. I have no desire to punish the company long term for this and should not have posted the company names - but i did and can't go back and amend this, which is why i thought about asking for the thread to be removed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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magic_hat, that's all right, then.
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achilles, tell me you weren't serious? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just picking up on achilles, point. in a Hypothetical scenario where a small to middlin sized TO had booked 1000 clients on ski trips costing £1000 each, and currency fluctuations mean that each trip now cost the TO another £30, i.e. they faced a bill of £30k, and they didn't have the money. What would be the best result (for the skiers), cough up another £30 a head and have their trip, or refuse, force the TO to carry the cost, see them go down, and see some of the skiers lose their holidays?
I'm NOT saying this is the case here, but in that hypothetical scenario, if I was one of the skiers involved, I wouldn't grumble too much at paying the currency fluctuation cost. I might view it as the 'price' of working with a low cost TO whose service was good and margins were very slim, rather than the TUI conglomerate which offers poor service at high prices (and which presumably include ample padding to deal with currency fluctuations).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| AxsMan wrote: |
I'm NOT saying this is the case here, but in that hypothetical scenario, if I was one of the skiers involved, I wouldn't grumble too much at paying the currency fluctuation cost. I might view it as the 'price' of working with a low cost TO whose service was good and margins were very slim,
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Provided they wereup front about this possibility in their T&C, and make sure tyhose T&C comply with the law.
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rather than the TUI conglomerate which offers poor service at high prices (and which presumably include ample padding to deal with currency fluctuations). |
Huh?
ThyeTUI conglomerate will more often than not be the cheapest TO, and while there are some glitches in their cutsomer service, that is inevitable with a company that size. Their service is usually pretty good IME.
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alex_heney, Not in mine.
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You know it makes sense.
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AxsMan, As I said, they have glitches.
Most of the people I know who have used them have had decent service most or all of the time.
A few haven't - obviously you are one of those few 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| alex_heney wrote: |
AxsMan, As I said, they have glitches.
Most of the people I know who have used them have had decent service most or all of the time.
A few haven't - obviously you are one of those few |
'few' people you know. Could be 'many' people you don't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I am absolutely certain there are many peolpe I don't know 
I am equally certain there are many people I don't know who have had issues with TUI group customer service.
I am almost as certain that all of those many people are still very much the exceptions to the norm. That they are "many" as an absolute number, but "few" as a proportion.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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alex_heney, Of my (admittedly few) experiences with TUI, most have been unsatisfactory.
My feeling is that their business model is based on practices which do not encourage or support a high quality service, but rather one that gives least cost (to them). Thus their reps, transfers, accommodation and flights are 'built to price' rather than quality. My experiences bear this out.
It may well be that this low quality, low cost model is popular with some, who accept the trade off between quality and price. I prefer a high quality experience when possible and have found that DIY or the use of smaller specialist TO's is more likely to supply it.
BTW Club Med (in my experience) are just as bad as TUI, but with better food. Wouldn't willingly use either of them again, except for Thomsonfly who have the benefit of operating from Britains nicest airport, right on my doorstep - Coventry
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| AxsMan wrote: |
alex_heney, Of my (admittedly few) experiences with TUI, most have been unsatisfactory.
My feeling is that their business model is based on practices which do not encourage or support a high quality service, but rather one that gives least cost (to them). Thus their reps, transfers, accommodation and flights are 'built to price' rather than quality. My experiences bear this out.
It may well be that this low quality, low cost model is popular with some, who accept the trade off between quality and price. I prefer a high quality experience when possible and have found that DIY or the use of smaller specialist TO's is more likely to supply it.
BTW Club Med (in my experience) are just as bad as TUI, but with better food. Wouldn't willingly use either of them again, except for Thomsonfly who have the benefit of operating from Britains nicest airport, right on my doorstep - Coventry |
Or could it be that you are just a ski snob  . I have been away with Crystal and First Choice many times and rate them highly. If like me you go on 3 trips a year and 2 of them are for a family of 4, then yes price does matter and the TUI group fit the bill.
I have also done DIY and when you factor in airport transfers etc, it is more expensive and very rarely are you ski in ski out.
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Kel, I think you are being a bit harsh on Axsman there, I certainly wouldn't think that he is a ski snob. FWIW , although I have had good experiences with TUI companies, it was mainly before they were owned by TUI, things certainly went downhill with Crystal soon afterwards. Most of the good experiences were with Thomson Sun. Skiworld were however brilliant on the one occasion we travelled with them.
I think you have a right to be served food of a decent quality when you go on holiday, and not be messed about with transfers or drastic change of flight times, or be transported in dangerous vehicles. Kids were even transferred to a less than satisfactory 'cupboard' instead of the booked bunk room, so they could accommodate some late bookers. Complaints got nowhere.
I don't agree with him about Club Med though, we had a fantastic time when we went.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kel, I'd like to be able to afford to be a 'ski snob', but with four teenagers to factor in to the hols, price is also important to me 
Thing is, price isn't the whole story, there is also 'value'. I know many are happy with the service provided by the TUI group, but my experience of it has been unfavourable on several occasions. Examples include,
being swapped to a poorer standard of accommodation because they had overbooked our apartments.
Being swapped to a hotel further away from the slopes than the one we had chosen for it's location because they 'lost the contract' (had we booked directly with the hotel this would not have happened),
flights being changed three times before departure, moving them from 'convenient' (which is why they were chosen) to 'inconvenient' but too late to change for others.
Long delays in transfers from airports because the TO thought two more passengers were coming (when they weren't), and many other similar examples of poor service.
All of these were on trips that actually cost more than If we had gone DIY and booked the same accommodation. Bad value in my book.
Helen Beaumont, I know a lot of people swear by Club Med, but for me the tiny, smelly rooms, poor afternoon food (a few plates of biscuits), and rubbish lessons (where our teens were not allowed to ski with us) combined with high prices (far more than we would normally pay - leading us to expect something a bit 'special') were a big disappointment.
Glad you don't think I'm a ski snob though I mean that would be the sort of person who'd ski in Wengen and stay at the Victoria Lauberhorn - oooops!  
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For me, one of the key things about how good a company is, is how happy/satisfied the satff are. Just have a quick look on Natives to see how the staff rate the companies!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I must say that as magic_hat paid the full balance of the holiday in December, then I feel achilles's point about cash flow problems is moot - the TO had the money at a time before the currency fluctuation hit big time, and in that case it is entirely the TO's risk - and poor judgement - if they did not pay their bills at that time. They took a gamble on the bank interest on holding the money being greater than a change in exchange rate and lost the gamble. If they had already paid their bills in advance, then there was no loss to recover and an attempted charge is just trying it on
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AxsMan, our kids were much younger then, so it would probably have been a much different experience if they were older. We also had not been expecting a club med holiday, but hotel was taken over by them after we'd booked, so we got the whole package for far less than normal.
As for tour op experiences,
Inghams- there were not enough beds in the hotel room on a trip to Banff , despite the brochure saying that the kitchenette suite would have double plus twin beds, (second double was only a large single and too small to share comfortably), our offered alternative was to purchase an airbed at our own expense, and hotel would provide bedding, or to pay 1000 dollars to move to another hotel.
Crystal-lift passes given to another couple, causing us to lose a days ski school, booked into beginners classes despite asking for level 2 and 3. Rep failing to notify us of the departure time of the coach back to the airport. Smaller and poorer quality apartment due to overbooking (common problem it seems). On another occasion our rep had a broken leg and couldn't sort out prebooked lift passes for us, so we had to cancel them with him, then go and queue ourselves. Kids sleeping in 'bunk room' which was really just a cupboard, despite booking a twin, as they had given their room to a late booking who arrived before us. No breakfast on the morning of an early departure at one hotel because rep had forgotten to organise it.
Neilsen-welcome meeting held in a hotel 10 mins walk away, an hour before we even arrived in resort. (Rep on coach advising us of meeting that had already started) Still to meet the resort rep. Transfer coach from airport waiting 2.5 hours for non-existent people.
AxsMan, I can't afford to be a ski snob either. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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AxsMan,
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You know it makes sense.
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AxsMan, nor me. 18 and 19 year olda away with us at Christmas, and now possibly next January too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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AxsMan, Helen Beaumont, I hate to tell you but I've been left uni a good few years and still gatecrash my parent's holidays (well, it makes sense, especially if for a few extra of their £s they can get a bigger appt with room for me )
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Elizabeth B, Can't fault your logic. I'd do the same but my parents are both in their late 70's and don't ski 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AxsMan, oh, my parents don't ski....but Wengen is so beautiful in winter and there's loads to do for non-skiers, and and and.......!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AxsMan, but "short walk in derbyshire dales" can easily translate to coffee on the silberhorn terrace, train up to KS for a potter, day trip to Grindelwald......
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Oh, and did I mention that Cafe Schuh and the Top of the met in interlaken are nice trips too!
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Elizabeth B, On that subject, Have you done the Piz Gloria bit? Mrs Axs and I fancied having lunch there one day during the MSB? Is it worth the trip and do you know if you have to book?
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Yes.....definitely worth doing. I've not had lunch there for years, as it's not the cheapest, but you won't need to book. Usually I have my morning hot chocolate there. Best to go on a day with some visibility....unlike us at last years MSB! There is a cinema up there that shows a short cut of the OHMSS film....worth 10 mins of your time to fantasise skiing the run on one ski!
I'd guess that a number of people would head over there at least once during the week.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Murren is well worth the trip from Wengen. You can be in the lift system at Winteregg within about 30 mins from leaving Wengen. Grindelwald (First) is a bit more time consuming to get across to as you have to get up from Grund and then along through the village.
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FAQ
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See you in Wengen 