 Poster: A snowHead
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stoatsbrother, I agree with you and my only point was in reply to questions asked of a sweeping statement I made regarding the finances of snowdomes. But I have not said anything is going down the pan.
Snowdomes would seem to be uneconomical if they have to be commercially procurred. However if a council wishes to build one out of its own money and on its own land as a facility for the public then lease it to someone to operate as an on going concern, then it is likely to be profitable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rayscoops, no different to swimming pools then? With the exception of pools at private health clubs (Esporta etc) where the pool is an attraction to get people in the door and pay excessive monthly fees, all the rest seem to be linked to local authorities.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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petemillis, except that pools do not cost 150 million quid to build and can be used by anyone with a few quid in their pockets.
The most used public facility in Wales where by you have to pay to get in was the Swansea leisure center, until the council let it fall in to a state of disrepair and tried to sell it of too developers. It is now being refurbished for 25 million quid and will again be used by the public for all sports, except skiing 
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I've got to think the charges worthwhile, or I wont use a snowdome. Other than that, I don't think the economics are our problem. The domes either pay their way, with subsidies if anyone wishes to subsidise them, or they don't. And flourish or perish accordingly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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'If built, SnOasis would see the construction of an expansive winter sports resort on the former Mason's quarry site. Along with an indoor ski slope, ice skating rink, ice climbing wall and other winter sports facilities there would be a sports academy, hotel, chalets, conference centre, cinema, restaurants, nightclub and visitor centre.'
Not to mention 421 houses.
The actual skiing bit is obviously important but the main profits would appear to come from permission for housing, hotel, conference centre, restaurants etc.
Perhaps a condition of consent would be to phase the housing, restaurants and shops etc for completion five years after the ski slope with the objective of determining its stand alone sustainability ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, not too sure about Tamworth, but interesting info on Hemel says that the current owner bought it after a fire from the Receiver for an 'un-disclosed' fee, my guess no fee !. It is only going to be 100 meters long, has the benefit of the existing dry slope facilities (hill, infrastructure, services, access, drainage?) and will also include a dry slope, and I would presume is established as a ski location, and most importantly is in a good catchment area. It also includes commercial elements too which will no doubt help things along. This seems to be a good example of how a snowdome can be viable without having to back it up with loads of housing or masses of retail/commercial development, i.e. free and established parcel of land, mixed but not excessive development, small but manageable slope.
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| saxabar wrote: |
Whitegold, stoatsbrother, just to clear up the numbers game, a very reliable consumer research organisation states that in September 2006 there were 1.6 million UK skiers compared with 0.5 million UK snowboarders and that 5% of adults in the UK have been on a dry ski slope.
If anyone else has access to Mintel, it makes very interesting reading! |
Saxabar -- So, you are saying there were 2.1M skiers + boarders in total in the UK in 2006?
Is that refering to active participants? -- i.e. people who skied at least 1 day indoors or outdoors last year.
Or does it include inactive participants, too?
Not questioning the data, just want to pin down the numbers.
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| Peter S wrote: |
'If built, SnOasis would see the construction of an expansive winter sports resort on the former Mason's quarry site. Along with an indoor ski slope, ice skating rink, ice climbing wall and other winter sports facilities there would be a sports academy, hotel, chalets, conference centre, cinema, restaurants, nightclub and visitor centre.'
Not to mention 421 houses.
The actual skiing bit is obviously important but the main profits would appear to come from permission for housing, hotel, conference centre, restaurants etc.
Perhaps a condition of consent would be to phase the housing, restaurants and shops etc for completion five years after the ski slope with the objective of determining its stand alone sustainability ? |
They should build houses or apartments attached to all snowdomes. It will vastly improve their profitability. There will always be plenty of suckers around who wanna stump up big bucks for a Tupperware Box next to a shopping mall or snow center.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
extract from natives web page
..in the pipeline
Chill Factor, Salford, Manchester (due to open October 2007)
Hemel Ski Centre, Hemel Hempstead (opening 2008)
Sheffield Ski Village (due to open April 2007)
Anyone know what happened to the 'melted away' ones ? |
No, but I can tell you that the Sheffield one is NOT going ahead - as in this report from February 2007
http://dailysnow.com/archives/021007_7/view?searchterm=sheffield
"The Sheffield Ski Village in England which claims to be Europe's largest artificial ski slope looks likely to close as area development plans which would see it converted to an indoor snow centre have so far been rejected by the local council.
The slope, which opened in the late 1980s and has subsequently attracted more than 4.5 million people was the first dry slope large enough to issue a trail map. It has 1.5km (a mile) of runs, the longest 330m (1100 feet). Owner John Fleetham has now put the Ski Village, which employ more than 160 people. on the market for £1m.
Sheffield Council have refused to give the go ahead for a £300m redevelopment of the area, although they are in favour of it, because it is part of a wider regeneration proposal by developers MENTA which would involve a large housing development and land zoned for industrial development. Profits from house sales would be used as part of the investment needed to build the indoor snow centre.
Mr Fleetham told local newspapers that the plan had been stalled for five years, "During that time our facility has been left behind as real snow slopes start to open up all over the UK. Many of our customers are now travelling to other slopes, such as Castleford, where they have real snow. This is what we have been trying to create here in Sheffield. Our design is bigger and bolder than any of the others in Britain, and if allowed to proceed would have been the biggest in Europe, making the Sheffield venue a clear market leader."
The Xscape at Casleford hich incorporates a SNO!zone indoor snow slope has become Britain's most popular paid attraction with over three million visitors annually.
MENTA may yet submit revised proposals and Sheffield Council have indicated they would be happy to work with them, but described the current plan as, "undeliverable."
Source: Patrick Thorne www.snow24.com
I went to have a look at Sheffield, being as I work quite near there and to be honest it seems rather tired and unloved. The access to it is frankly dismal up a very narrow lane in a tired industrial area. On a weekday afternoon I got held up by commercial vehicles both on the way in and out! Lots would have to change to have a decent access.
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rayscoops
Hemel will actually be closer to 180m, not 100m.
Anyone that is interested, We just ran a weekends training at Landgraaf in the Netherlands. A 500m+ long indoor snow facility with restuarants and a new hotel being built.
This was done for a very reasonable cost (especially when compared to the facilities in the UK).
FIS run the opening World Cup head to head there each October and national teams also run training there.
www.snowworld.nl
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| skimottaret, not too sure about Tamworth, but interesting info on Hemel says that the current owner bought it after a fire from the Receiver for an 'un-disclosed' fee, my guess no fee !. It is only going to be 100 meters long, has the benefit of the existing dry slope facilities (hill, infrastructure, services, access, drainage?) and will also include a dry slope, and I would presume is established as a ski location, and most importantly is in a good catchment area. It also includes commercial elements too which will no doubt help things along. This seems to be a good example of how a snowdome can be viable without having to back it up with loads of housing or masses of retail/commercial development, i.e. free and established parcel of land, mixed but not excessive development, small but manageable slope. |
Think you may be referring to the plans for High Wycombe in your post. As has been said Hemel is going for a straight replacement of its 180m slope and nursery slope with a bar and a single shop outlet (currently S&R). It fits most of your comment though as it is the current owner proposing the development.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Georgio wrote: |
Hemel will actually be closer to 180m, not 100m.
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| Nick W wrote: |
| As has been said Hemel is going for a straight replacement of its 180m slope and nursery slope with a bar and a single shop outlet (currently S&R). It fits most of your comment though as it is the current owner proposing the development. |
I knew the plans changed to include a grass roof, but unless the actual slope plans have also changed, at 118m the skiable slope at Hemel will be a fair bit shorter than the current dendix one as well as a fair bit shorter than MK.
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You know it makes sense.
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slikedges, Hemel will be 10m shorter than the current 160m Dendix slope. The top will be 68m at 15 degrees, then 12 degrees, then 10 degrees. Will be 32m wide as against the current 15m, giving a usable 28m between the lifts. MK is 12 degrees down to 10 degrees. Total skiable length is pretty much the same as MK. The trainer slope is 40m wide and 60m long.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Spyderman, thought MK was 15 at the top 13 and 11
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, sorry, yes 15 for the very first short pitch, the rest is 12 & 10 AFAIAA. I suppose they can tweak it slightly by altering snow depths.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, I thought the plan was 60m at 15deg, 36m at 12deg, 22m at 10deg, 10m flat at top and 18m flat at bottom. Skiable slope 118m. IIRC MK skiable is 140m-ish from overall 170m.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Their barrister wrote: |
| when the British invented the sport of downhill skiing |
Yeah right 
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slikedges, I got the figues from the Hemel slope manager in the bar last night, I will check. I don't ski MK that often, but I would think that there are more than 30m 'wasted' the top has to be 10m flat at least and the bottom flat area is huge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stanton wrote: |
| Their barrister wrote: |
| when the British invented the sport of downhill skiing |
Yeah right |
I think that fact is undisputed
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Spyderman, yep, agreed on MK, 170m total, about 30m wasted and 140m skiable.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| Spyderman, I thought the plan was 60m at 15deg, 36m at 12deg, 22m at 10deg, 10m flat at top and 18m flat at bottom. Skiable slope 118m. IIRC MK skiable is 140m-ish from overall 170m. |
If correct, 118 meters is too short. It is a wasted opportunity.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Whitegold, So what do you suggest then?
These are you're parameters: Already using the full length of the hill, road at the bottom, sports stadium on one side, housing estate on the other 2 sides. Oh, yes and 48" water main at the bottom, so we can't start tunneling.
We have the will, show us the way?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I spend my work experience week at the Snowdome in tamworth.
I'll tell you, it becomes rather dull after a while. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
Whitegold, So what do you suggest then?
These are you're parameters: Already using the full length of the hill, road at the bottom, sports stadium on one side, housing estate on the other 2 sides. Oh, yes and 48" water main at the bottom, so we can't start tunneling.
We have the will, show us the way? |
Build it upward.
Move, or build around, the watermain.
Whatever.
If mankind can create skyscrapers and megabridges, then it can design a provincial snowdome.
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Whitegold,
Cost!!!!!!!
Be realistic
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monster77
monster77
Guest
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monster77
monster77
Guest
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If you dont like indoor slopes no one is forcing you to use them.
Anything, plastic or artificial snow is better than nothing. they fill in the time between trips to the propper stuff, (which these days thankfully now seem to be continuing through the summer as well as the winter )
The Uk is not an Alpine country we are devoid of good natural skiing so put up or shut up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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They are an eyesore, a waste of energy, and very environmentally unfriendly. They are overpriced, and not particularly good exercise. They are dull inside, and the snow quality is variable at best. For a competent skier there is very little to challenge you, unless they put out the kickers and ramps.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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what would be an acceptable minimum length of run for a new snowdome to make it ineresting enough to regularly go there? if parameters allowed
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rayscoops, 1000m vertical. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Steady on there, Kramer, I'd be willing to bet I could challenge you in one of those.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| the snow quality is variable at best. |
That's a concept I'm struggling with! 
I agree with your post though.
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veeeight, I'm sure that there are drills that could be done in one that I'd find challenging, but I seriously doubt that it would be much fun.
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Here's a comment in the melting pot - do you think snow domes are more likely to be enjoyed by beginners for whom skiing anywhere is still a relative novelty, rather than folks with loads more hours of real snow under their belts?
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Megamum, don't mention melting pots: freezing bowls are more conducive to skiing. 
I think you have a point though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, Beginners tend to use them to improve just before they go away on holiday, to get their hand in, as it were, while ski addicts tend to use them all year round, to get their fix and improve their skiing. I ski at Hemel whether I'm teaching or not, sometimes just to meet up with my mates, have a ski and a beer.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| They are an eyesore, a waste of energy, and very environmentally unfriendly. They are overpriced, and not particularly good exercise. |
Bit like football stadiums then? I've only watched one footie match recently = very over-priced tickets, concrete all over the place, thousands and thousands of Watts of floodlights illuminating the pitch and heating the atmosphere, not a single goal scored and the only exercise I got was a walk to the hotdog bar and back.
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FAQ
