Is skiing getting too expensive?

A snowHead

For us I don't think the general cost of skiing has risen, taking into account the general rate of inflation in the UK and France. In fact the cost of our season passes are lower this year (not just because one of us has reached discount age Embarassed

). What I have noticed is over the last 20+ years we have been skiing in Val/Tignes the place has been even further gentrified. Val was always of that nature, but has moved further and further up market. The place we used to rent in Val was adjacent to what used to be a Mark Warner Chalet Hotel and was converted to 12 large luxury apartments, typical of what has happened. At the same time more and more 4 & 5* places have opened, you only have to look at what happened to the Morris Pub. The same is happening in Tignes now. Whilst there are still a few reasonable restaurants/cafes around on the mountain and in the villages, their number is reducing year by year. We used to eat out once a week in the evening in a restaurant, but that is now down to about once every 3 weeks and we hardly ever eat in restaurants on the mountains, just ski through lunch and finish a little earlier. With the snow conditions this year I can only see the trend continuing. At the same time property prices have rocketed here.

We are very lucky in what we have, but we have built our life around our skiing, there are many things we would give up to ensure it stays that way, but not that easy for those of you with responsibilities.

A snowHead

Is skiing getting more expensive for everyone or just UK citizens ?

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@belette, yep.

Lift passes are one of the things that it's possible to save lots of money on. But it depends where and when you go. Your £199 is pretty decent (so was the package cost!).

e.g. €360 for 6 days for the Trois Vallees is €60 per day

€159 for 6 days in the Portes du Soleil in January if bought on Black Friday

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All well and good but if there's no snow in half of PDS then those prices are relatively probably reasonable.

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@Raptor24, sure, I see your point, but...

- this topic is mostly about affordability and not value
- you don't need 550km (3 Valleys) for 6 days skiing
- having no snow in half of the PDS is very rare in January (the saving is a much bigger % than the % risk of poor snow)

I wasn't really trying to compare the 3 Valleys and Portes du Soleil in terms of quality of skiing, but just used them as examples of expensive vs. cheap lift passes.

Similarly with accommodation, might cost you >£60/night for a 4-person apartment in somewhere like Tignes or Courchevel, but <£30 in St Gervais or Les Sybelles. Again, I'm not trying to compare those specific ski areas, but I'm suggesting that skiing need not necessarily be as expensive as many think, if you're careful about when and where you go.

After all it is free

Oh I agree completely.

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There's certainly an issue that horrendous mis-management of the nation's economy and investment and political graft on a grand scale means we're in a desperate situation. And that rather than spread the impact equally, the Tories have chosen to fund pensions properly, rather than anything else, because they need the votes. But the disparity is bad because of that incompetence, not because pensioners are inherently less deserving.

Current pensioners paid the pensions of the then-retired in a social contract that guaranteed the same would apply to them. But the Tories broke that contract through economic incompetence, and aren't prepared to be honest about what that means - that the current generation of workers won't ever get the same pension that the previous did, even though they're being taxed to pay for current pensions. Well, only those that haven't got their assets offshore and in trusts, obviously and the Tory view is that such people have only themselves to blame if they haven't accumulated the necessary wealth.

And when I say Tory, I don't mean the average voter. I mean the Eton/Oxbridge inherited-wealth Elite and free market zealots who have taken over the current Tory Party and installed a Cabinet and PM who are to a man/woman multi-millionaires. For whom failure to disclose £2m of income is regarded as a 'careless' mistake.

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Food and drink for skiing need not necessarily be more expensive than food for staying at home. But of course, if you take the family for lunch in a restaurant every day....... Shocked

You know it makes sense.

Definitely keep the politics out of it, as bad as keeping on about brexit, this is a skiing forum, skiing is meant to be fun and for forgetting about the everyday crap

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A snowHead

A snowHead

I think my comments are reasonable and relevant to the questions raised in the topic, especially one which implies criticism of current pensioners. I contribute many responses to many threads across the forum, and have done for some years. @ski3 you accuse me of being a socialist, but you have no idea of my politics, other than comments critical of the current government, and which don’t align with yours. You say we shouldn’t talk politics and proceed immediately to do exactly that with a reference to the action of a minister in a previous government 13 years ago. You can’t have it both ways. I don’t see what either of us have said as grounds for censorship, but if the moderators feel that I’m not a balanced and responsible member, then I’m happy for them to remove my account, as long as they explain to the forum why.

I can appreciate members’ frustration with topics drifting into combative political argument, but the thread is basically about the cost of living, not winter tyres. Politics is bound to come into the discussion because it’s an integral part of the topic’s economic landscape.

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@LaForet, steady on!

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Really, I don’t see current ski pass prices as particularly high, when normalised for inflation and the significant improvements to the quality of facilities in many areas. Back when we bought our place in the 4 Vallées in 2003, there were very few snow cannon and many of the lifts were ageing. Téléverbier has spent at least CHF 25million on upgrading the Savoleyres Sector alone since then, and I’d say that the lift prices over and above inflation have actually been relatively modest, considering: back in December the walk-in price for a single day’s skiing in the sector was £56. For longer or with advance booking, it’s somewhat less than that. Which seems proportionate to other costs.

What seems to have caused a lot of trouble in the last couple of years is an apparently disproportionate (or should I use the journalists’ cliché of ‘rocketing’?) cost of car rentals and transfers. This seems to have transcended the usual issue of school holiday price premiums, although it’d be interesting to know if such premiums have risen more than usual as well. If so, then I can see it’s a double-whammy for school age families.

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@BobinCH, I tend to agree - though instead of a large varied ski area you could go to a few mid sized ones and still get as much variety while saving money.

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Back in the day I also prioritised good quality ski lessons especially for kids and grandkids (all of whom, as a result, love skiing!) but also for myself. I'm OK with a small ski area. I'm also OK with driving from UK and self-catering. Quite enjoy long evenings after lifts shut preparing food and eating and drinking and nobody I'd be prepared to go on holiday with would fail to shoulder their share of the burden. I don't like hotels, even good ones. Would prefer to help myself to a beer or a G&T from my own fridge at supermarket prices and would never go near a "wellness".

It's families that make it expensive...... especially for people stuck with school hols or with the sort of kids who won't share rooms and expect a two course lunch in a mountain restaurant every day. But if I'd had any of them I'd have sold them into slavery and made a few bob. I know that "single supplements" seem expensive but it's still a lot cheaper than paying for two!!

After all it is free

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@pam w, Just a little bit judgemental don’t you think? My kids expect a decent mountain lunch every day, mostly because that is what I enjoy so that’s what they have experienced on ski holidays from a young age. I budget for that and can afford it. Why should that mean they should be sold into slavery?

Yes family ski holidays tend to be more expensive when you are limited to school holidays. But choices about the size of accommodation you choose or how many lunches on the mountain (and quality of them) are personal and driven by the available budget. Everyone here is affected by increased costs but that does not mean that everyone needs to or is trying to have the cheapest possible holiday. We self-cater for many of the reasons you outline, more space for everyone to relax, more flexibility on meal times/content, we enjoy spending the evening together drinking/cooking/eating, and find we spend more quality time together that way. It is not driven by cost, indeed it would often be cheaper for us to half board in a hotel. Largely as good quality 4 bedroom accommodation with decent living space is a bit more rare and quite a bit more expensive. I have noticed that costs have increased for our holidays including flights (mostly luggage and other add-ons), car hire, eating out both in the mountain and in the evening, ski passes, and apres ski. I prioritise our spending so as to able to absorb those increased costs while maintaining the level of experience on a ski holiday because that is what is important to us. What is the problem with any of that?

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Yes its getting expensive, and I don't know how long I'll be able to afford it.
The school trip to Austria back in 1963 was £50

Fabulous Hotel Post in Achensee (it is now anyway)
I think a beer was the equivalent of 9d, which was great as we were on 13 or 14 at the time.

There was no lift for us, so we just had to sidestep up the hill.
But we had a Juke Box in the hotel bar.

great times, and it seemed very expesive then.

@DrLawn, Achensee, where did you ski Pertisau or Maurach ? that was my first ski , few years later than you, £50 was a lot of money then.Ah long skis, leather boots ,over centre wire bindings, jumpers for goal posts, mothers calling ...beans for tea. Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

@DrLawn, my Norway ski trip in 1962 or 3 (can't remember) was £40. £50 in 1963 is equivalent to £860-ish in today's money. My 14 year old granddaughter is doing a school trip to Passo Tonale at half term, by coach. I'm told the cost is about £1700 "all in" which seems a lot. They are going by coach, much the cheapest option, but back in 1962 we stayed in big dorm in the youth hostel in Geilo and ate all our meals there - food was ample but pretty basic, though we did get whale one day! There were communal showers. Today's school kids are probably mostly in twin rooms with en suite bathrooms and the budget probably includes vouchers for lunches on the mountain. But even given those differences it would seem that skiing HAS become relatively more expensive, as well as more luxurious.

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A snowHead

@pam w, I disagree. It was judgemental. And you have compounded it by lecturing me on how I should teach my children the value of things. Thanks but I am more than capable of doing that for myself and see no need to explain to you or anyone else how I do so. No idea why you feel the need to tell us all how brilliantly you did this.

My point is that everyone is affected by increasing prices, not just those that have always had a very tight budget for ski holidays. I pointed out that I have prioritised other things so I can continue to afford the type of experience we have come to enjoy on a winter holiday. You seem to have continued to make the point that it is unreasonable expectations that are the problem, almost as if anyone who chooses a more luxurious (as you put it) experience are the reason skiing is becoming too expensive. It is not. I could choose a less expensive approach to ski holidays, I choose not to. But am definitely suffering from the increased cost of doing so, and other things have to give to compensate. If costs continue to increase I may have to make different choices, and I am more than capable of doing so without being told by you that I sould simply lower my expectations. Those are trade-offs that we all make.

A snowHead

@pam w, £1700? Wow, that seems a lot. Add a few quid for her own spending money, and you are looking at £2k for a week via coach!

That said, my first ever ski trip was around 1983 with school, via coach, and it cemented my love of the mountains. Not sure it was the equivalent of 2k mind, my parents, I don't think, would have had that to spare.

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@zikomo, I don't think what @pam w said was judgemental. Someone sharing how they kept costs down on their own trip is entirely relevant to this thread, which is about affordability. It doesn't mean that they are saying "their way" is better than anyone else's.

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Would suggest that the cost is much about the compromises that you are prepared to make. Mid to late January even in 2023 has proven yet again to be pretty snow sure at a noticable discount to prices from February onward. Just spent a week in Zell Am See skiing superskicard areas. Best fun week skiing for years and everything was way cheaper and better value for money than 3Vs. You just need to be a bit more open minded.

I am off to the 3Vs in four weeks time, so not completely knocking it, but the chalet experience thing has changed considerably, with less catered, and then 5 not 6 nights. My favourite "independent" mountain restaurants are becoming more corporate, with "plat du jour" giving way to Michelin stars, and whilst the lift system is impressive, you are not seeing the new investment that is evident in Austria.

IMO the biggest increases in cost are in air fares and car hire, and to keep a lid on costs it is probably worth thinking of workarounds, like using tour operators rather than self booking, sharing taxis to the resort, etc.

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@SHAP, I think that price included "spending money". I suspect the school is very prescriptive about how much money kids should/can take with them. And rightly so. It is a comp, but in a very well-heeled area (the Chew Valley) and without guidance some parents would probably give their kids absurd amounts of money.

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@denfinella, I found it very judgemental. Especially the part about expectations and how children should be taught the value of money. Also the assumption that anyone who chooses a more luxurious experience is not affected by rising costs, that is means the expectations themselves are unreasonable, and they should just cut their cloth accordingly. Suggesting that said people might not be choosing to do so in other ways.

How is suggesting that she would sell into slavery any kid who wants their own room or has come to expect decent mountain lunches should be sold into slavery not being judgemental? I get the sold into slavery bit was meant as a joke, but the sentiment is clearly there. And the clear intimation that her way is definitely better is there, including telling us all what a brilliant job she has done as a parent. I don't actually think anyone does a brilliant job at that, I try my best but for sure don't get it right all the time and neither did my parents.

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@DavidYacht, the demise of the old "catered chalet" arrangements is a blow for families skiing on a budget, as are the Draconian punishments for taking kids out of school. We had some great holidays in "low end" chalets with good value food and good company too. Knowing they could get "chalet tea" when lifts close, and fill up on "free" baguette and jam, cake and endless cups of tea dissuaded my kids from needing lunch on the mountain and the free "ski guiding" in the old days was invaluable too. I always took bags full of snack/choc/squirrel shit biscuits for them to stuff in their pockets to keep them going and they soon learnt to eat a hearty breakfast, even if hungover.

We did several holidays with Ski Olympic in La Rosiere with coach travel to the door. I still remember the exciting day we were dropped off when the "ski guide cum washer upper" was still clearing the paths after a heavy snowstorm. It was not luxurious. Shared bathrooms, domestic-rated electricity supply which often tripped out in the heavy hour before supper, hot water didn't always work, bus up to the ski slopes.

But we NEVER went in school holidays. Those were the days!!

After all it is free

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Just paid €1800 for my 14YO to go to Sauze in half term. Similar price to the last school trip pre COVID. I could imagine that 25-30h of lessons make a part of that.
My school trips in late 80s early 90s might have been £500. I bought a couple of packages mid90s for £500-700 but they would possibly be half board and half the lessons.
I’m on phone so can’t check the history of exchange rates, but I suspect FFR was cheaper and then I remember the Euro falling from about 1.50 to 1.20 in ?2003. I think CDN was cheaper in the 90s too.
Other than that, the points about wanting more luxury when older and being forced to go in school holidays while paying for 4 not 1 are very pertinent, at least to me!

Help!!

Is skiing getting too expensive?

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