 Poster: A snowHead
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@ski3, @RobinS, cheers for answers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When things are frozen on the car (e.g. brakes and doors) - then a hair dryer can sometimes free them.
Some doors freeze because water (from melting snow) gets onto/into the doors rubber seals during the day and this freezes at night. Forcing the door open can damage the rubber.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This is quite a long thread and I have not read all of it but it all seems like good advice.
There is only one thing I can think of that has not been mentioned.
My battery did not have enough urge to start the Golf after a night at -15
Local mechanic came out in another golf to clamp the jumper leads on and all was fine.
But I noticed that he had build a polystyrene box around his battery to keep the frost out of it.
Perhaps a bit of old carpet or something similar around the battery on a cold night may help.
Or are batteries better than they used to be these days?
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They are and they aren't. They're pretty much all sealed for life and maintenance free these days so that helps, and you can specify ones with higher cranking power if you are regularly in draining conditions but the factory one will be standard cranking power. Other than that, not much has changed.
But your battery for sure should still work after a single cold night. Either it's on its way out, the alternator isn't charging properly or one of the terminals is slightly loose. A bit of insulation won't do any harm but it shouldn't really be necessary.
Car electrics run at 14.4v which is what your "12v" battery holds and modern cars have an automatic shutdown if the battery drops below around 11.8v. So your battery can be only very slightly flat but nothing works other than the alarm and central locking systems. This is deliberate because a recharge from 10-11v won't harm the battery at all but if it's left to drop to 4-5v by constantly cranking the engine when it doesn't have enough power, it's scrap - it'll never recharge. I'd get the battery tested for free at Kwik Fit and tighten the terminals as diagnostic precautions.
The backstop is to carry a (charged!) lithium starter pack in the car. They work and they're only £50 odd quid these days and will save the call-out to get it started. Just make sure you don't leave it in the boot if the only way into the boot is via the central locking that could be dead!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Car batteries do not like cold weather:
Get a lithium jump starter. Charge it up every 6 months and before every drive down.
If you car battery is over 5 years old and/or doesn't like cold mornings, then do yourself a favour and have it replaced.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Should have also mentioned that there are issues with VAG group cars (and maybe others) if you replace the battery and don't re-code the ECU to tell the car it's got a new battery. They have a clever alternator charging system that is designed not to overcharge a battery in order to prolong its life and it changes as the battery ages. Factory batteries usually last around 10 years but replacements often pack up after 3 years because the car wasn't recoded.
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@Raceplate, is my Skoda a VAG group car? It's 2016 but had done very low mileage when I bought it last year. I should perhaps replace the battery, though I do have a charged lithium pack (in the boot doh.....).
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You can check it yourself @pam w, with a USB/cigarette lighter adapter cable, one with digital voltage display, something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325261281708 to measure.
If you run the car it should be about 14.0v while running, this tells you the charging is OK.
When its switched off for about an hour (lets battery settle volts off charge) healthy battery will show between 12.5~12.9 just sitting with nothing turned on.
12.3~12.5v and its marginal for leaving days especially in winter.
11.8~12.2v and it will likely not start.
If it's healthy 12.5~12.9 then watch the volts as you start it, below 10.1v as the engine is cranking and likely it's getting aged too. This is effectively a load test in action.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@pam w, Yes car is VAG vehicle.
Good supplier of battery if needed is https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/ with excellent prompt service at good cost too, with "Varta" batteries particularly good product. That's should you need one.
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@pam w, yes it is but as I said, the factory batteries almost always last 9-10 years. A 2016 car should not need a replacement but if you want to do it as a precaution, make sure the fitting centre has the right computer equipment and do actually use it. They can fit the battery manually and it'll work but it won't last. The car has to be input with the new battery's serial number to be charged correctly as it ages.
When mine was replaced, it was lockdown quarantine and only a mobile RAC fitter was available to fit a replacement. I was prepared to take it to my usual service place to have it programmed later but to both of our surprise, when we tried his system to programme it, it worked. So I guess the RAC are ok.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ski3, thanks. Will check.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ski3, Kwik Fit do battery load tests for free with a printed report that you can check yourself. I always get one done before winter, just in case.
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@Raceplate, yes they do that at local halfords near me too. They've a Yuasa machine that they input battery spec then test against that while they use the starter to give read on vehicle in dynamic mode.
Quite useful and what I've checked my voltage against in those notes above.
Good idea to get them tested prior to long winter trip as you do.
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You know it makes sense.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
This is quite a long thread and I have not read all of it but it all seems like good advice.
There is only one thing I can think of that has not been mentioned.
My battery did not have enough urge to start the Golf after a night at -15
Local mechanic came out in another golf to clamp the jumper leads on and all was fine.
But I noticed that he had build a polystyrene box around his battery to keep the frost out of it.
Perhaps a bit of old carpet or something similar around the battery on a cold night may help.
Or are batteries better than they used to be these days? |
Definitely if the battery is not up to it's full operational capacity it'll subsequently be exposed as such in deep cold and a couple of days inactivity.
They do react differently though. Wet conventional flooded acid battery if deeply discharged will stratify it's liquid acid in specific gravity terms, more water at the bottom and vulnerable to freezing when very low charge (which it realistically isn't when fully charged) which can permanently damage the battery by deforming the plates internally. It may also crack the casing in extreme situations (think someone on here had this some years ago in their Mercedes) with obviously substantial problem if stuck.
AGM type has acid held in matrix between plates (gell type similar) that don't do as above, consequently not really vulnerable to being flat to anything like the same extent.
Ideally, with good charging and capacity ok it should all work well without adaption of shielding etc.
Amazes me though that people's propensity to use them to draw off charge when not running doesn't trigger any thoughts as to where the electricity is coming from  fine while running along, but no engine running means no charging.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@ski3, thanks for your very informative post, the AGM type you mention... Is that technology common on many high end modern cars?
I hardly ever look under the bonnet of my car anymore. The battery is the original and 2016.
I'll have to have a closer look at it sometime.
You were very lucky to make a battery last more than 24 months back in the day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| greengriff wrote: |
| Fantastic thread! I see the old myth about boiling water cracking screens has made it here too. I can say categorically, with nearly 30 years of pouring boiling (or at least very hot) water over frozen screens, side windows, door mirrors and light lenses, not one has ever cracked. |
Oddly enough I just came across this a couple of minutes ago.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I’m heading out to Val Thorens on Friday and reading the thread has me a little worried! I’ve pre-booked a spot in the multi-storey for the week. Does anybody know if those car parks are heated at all? I’m an anxious soul experiencing a bit of pre-journey jitters!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I’m heading out to Val Thorens on Friday and reading the thread has me a little worried! I’ve pre-booked a spot in the multi-storey for the week. Does anybody know if those car parks are heated at all? I’m an anxious soul experiencing a bit of pre-journey jitters!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| PrinceJohn wrote: |
| I’m heading out to Val Thorens on Friday and reading the thread has me a little worried! I’ve pre-booked a spot in the multi-storey for the week. Does anybody know if those car parks are heated at all? I’m an anxious soul experiencing a bit of pre-journey jitters! |
You shouldn't worry unnecessarily, any battery type in good condition won't have a problem in that scenario.
Its more about preparedness, in that if your car had difficulty starting routinely now before you left, or if left for a couple of days inactivity and you coukd here it turning slowly as you try to start it , then it would be wise to at least get it checked as noted by Raceplate to verify its status.
All being healthy then it'll be fine parked there for a week.
Mine is usually just parked outside for the week when skiing, without problem.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
@ski3, thanks for your very informative post, the AGM type you mention... Is that technology common on many high end modern cars?
I hardly ever look under the bonnet of my car anymore. The battery is the original and 2016.
I'll have to have a closer look at it sometime.
You were very lucky to make a battery last more than 24 months back in the day. |
Many will use AGM battery routinely (should be specified on battery case ) anything with stop-start ordinarily has this type and larger capacity to cope too. Stop-start will automatically be suspended if temperature/battery levels are out of ordinary operating range to ensure reliability too.
Really though, any battery in good condition will sail through this environment without problem, if you notice anything unusual in normal day to day use tnen it would be prudent to at least assess it before a more involved trip.
Agree with Raceplate, they are generally quite good to reach 10 yrs of age with factory fit batteries nowadays, pretty reliable in reality.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Our local auto parts shop recommended an AGM battery as a replacement battery for our 15yr old car. Not one issue, even after the vehicle had been standing in Winter conditions for about 5 weeks. The battery was a year old by this point and the car started like normal.
I should point out that the glow plugs were also replaced about 2 years ago.
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I only ever had one battery problem out in the cold - flat after I'd left it parked (free!!) for several days outside Chambery airport at a VERY cold time, with the lights on. Jump start from helpful French driver made no impression - it was flatter than a flat thing. Had to call out a breakdown truck, also free with my Nationwide insurance. Can't blame the battery for that. I'd driven through the tunnel with lights on, and not noticed when I parked in brilliant sunshine.
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Anyone can do a basic stress test with no equipment also.
After a night parked (no charging) turn on ignition don't start the engine, then turn on anything you can find (heated rear window, front demist+fan, headlights main beam, foot on brake to get lights) then start it with all running like this. If it starts, you're good to go really.
Rough and ready, but does give easy indication if the battery contains the grunt to get you going. This is effectively what a battery load test will do, but with a print out.
You could call it a "go~no go" test in truest sense of the words. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ski3, A decent test, but I'm not sure if it's relevant with 2 battery cars as the 2nd battery may supply a lot of the power leaving the main battery unloaded. Or if power to some things is temporarily halted during starting as it's all a bit hi-tech these days 
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| ski3 wrote: |
Anyone can do a basic stress test with no equipment also.
After a night parked (no charging) turn on ignition don't start the engine, then turn on anything you can find (heated rear window, front demist+fan, headlights main beam, foot on brake to get lights) then start it with all running like this. If it starts, you're good to go really.
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ICBW, but I thought that most cars will disengage all auxiliary equipment when the starter is engaged. You ever noticed how the radio will stop playing as you start, for example?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Must admit I thought AGM batteries were just standard equipment for stop/start cars (I don't have stop/start and it drives me nuts so I usually disengage it in a hire car... ) Didn't realise there was a benefit to fitting them to a non-stop/start car. They do seem like a good idea if you regularly leave your car outside at sub-zero temperatures.
Edit: It's not a good idea because your alternator is specified for a lead acid battery in a non stop/start car so it will not function correctly with an AGM battery. The battery intelligent energy management system will not function correctly and the new battery will likely get overcharged and damaged.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 21-01-23 11:59; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| PrinceJohn wrote: |
| I’m heading out to Val Thorens on Friday and reading the thread has me a little worried! I’ve pre-booked a spot in the multi-storey for the week. Does anybody know if those car parks are heated at all? I’m an anxious soul experiencing a bit of pre-journey jitters! |
They're not heated but depending what level you're on and how far away from the entrance you're parked etc. they'll likely be around 10c warmer than the outside temperature. It's unlikely you'll have a problem but just carry a lithium starter pack as part of your winter driving kit and keep it in your accommodation as a back-up. You'll be fine.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I only ever had one battery problem out in the cold - flat after I'd left it parked (free!!) for several days outside Chambery airport at a VERY cold time, with the lights on. Jump start from helpful French driver made no impression - it was flatter than a flat thing. |
Yes, leaving lights on is a killer. I left a single map reading light on by accident once and it killed the car in cold conditions in 4 days. That's how I know you shouldn't leave your starter pack in the boot...
In that scenario, the battery's gone way past the normal shutdown threshold and is probably down to 6-8v depending on how long they've been on. When it's that low, it will jump start from another car but only if the other car has a much bigger engine and alternator and the driver keeps his revs up to super boost the electric circuit in your car. Also best to let the other car run connected to yours for some time as a kind of trickle charge before you try.
The breakdown truck has the starting power for broken down trucks so no issue once that's connected.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| I only ever had one battery problem out in the cold - flat after I'd left it parked (free!!) for several days outside Chambery airport at a VERY cold time, with the lights on. Jump start from helpful French driver made no impression - it was flatter than a flat thing. |
Yes, leaving lights on is a killer. I left a single map reading light on by accident once and it killed the car in cold conditions in 4 days. That's how I know you shouldn't leave your starter pack in the boot...
In that scenario, the battery's gone way past the normal shutdown threshold and is probably down to 6-8v depending on how long they've been on. When it's that low, it will jump start from another car but only if the other car has a much bigger engine and alternator and the driver keeps his revs up to super boost the electric circuit in your car. Also best to let the other car run connected to yours for some time as a kind of trickle charge before you try.
The breakdown truck has the starting power for broken down trucks so no issue once that's connected. |
Yes any bulb will take it all ultimately if left going.
One example when camping, a families kids have succeeded in getting their parent's ford galaxy down to 0.168 volts (I carry a little voltmeter in the car) effectively zero ! They thought it was broken rather than suspecting battery as there was no visible life at all. We jumped it to another's land rover defender 110, fired straight away, advised to go for 1/2 drive and all ok on return.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Jut remembered we once flew into Gva airport and found car battery flat. The car park was deserted, then one of those impossibly elegant women you see at Gva (not getting off an easyJet flight from Manchester) turned up and pranced on her high heeled shoes to an equally smart car. My hubby suggested I asked her for a jump start (I spoke more French than he did). I flatly refused - she just seemed way out of our league. So OH, desperate to get out of the car park, went and asked her. She was not very keen but he charmed her into it (and needless to say she spoke excellent English).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Auckland airport has (or certainty had) a car jump starting service which I had to use after an interior light had been left on Turned out to be the one in the boot whose switch was not working so didn’t see it. Very handy indeed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well you can buy impossibly expensive scanty underwear at Gva, so it's not all bad.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@ski3, & @Raceplate, Gosh I'm learning a lot here.
I thought when you said AGM I thought you were talking about Fast Merc's
I did not know you had to get a software tweak when you had a new battery fitted if you have a VW type motor.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes @DrLawn, it's an interesting subject for me and some others, but I strongly suspect not for everyone but sometimes turning up a little nugget that strikes a cord with someone that's been stuck perhaps and with that info can prepare better in a simple way to avoid that inconvenience.
The battery monitoring, like many things in these later cars is probably more driven by emmisions criteria ultimately. Being able to tell how much residual battery resource it may have after a cold start can affect the decisions it makes, for example a diesel may run the pre heaters longer after the initial start during very cold ambient to bring effective combustion more quickly into play. If the battery capacity is known, and current status after cranking, then it can decide if it wants to deplete it further as the heaters are high load, or preserve capacity if it recognises its too low already, recovery strategies can be push or delayed according to this data.
Switching stop start down is another tool using same logic feed too.
It can all be too complex though even for those equipped to deal with these vehicles. A friend had his apparently go into "limp home" mode, main dealer felt it was ecu related and proposed replacement at his cost (past warranty aged) another, independent, corroborated this view.
Went to look at it, sitting there gently puffing smoke from it's sad carcass, i'd recently been researching something related on their manufacturer training site available to the public, fortuitously. His software plug in also said the same problem which seemed very odd to me. It stated a very specific affect about a temperature error, put my hand on the component which sure enough seemed very out of normal range. Looked for a reason and found ultimately a vacuum switch that controls this function was corroded and stuck in a "called" position unable to return to a closed status, which the ecu couldn't know about. It only knows if it calls or cancelled the demand, not whether that device had failed to close out that instruction.
This is effectively the digital/analogue interface (everything in digital form after algorithm functions has to come out somewhere to be useful) the poor thing, ecu, was flagging the correct error, but nobody was listening to what it was telling them. They just determined the ecu was wrong against evidence of their faulty experience and any training they'd received 
We decided that open heart surgery was needed on this little component, got it going again with a big scar, buttoned up with zip tie and tape. Ran rehab trials, ordered new control valve, and it went on without problem for another 140,000 miles. Total cost £15.00
I know it's boring, but fascinated me. and learned quite a bit too.
Ultimately the component compromise was caused by fallen leaves not cleared from drainage route around windscreen, it was water resistant and in a very secluded area, but ultimately succumbed to a water onslaught that shouldn't have gone that way.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
I did not know you had to get a software tweak when you had a new battery fitted if you have a VW type motor. |
Neither did I, and I have two VW-type motors, both of which I've replaced batteries on at least once in our 14 and 10 years ownership thereof.
Without any issues, I should say, and certainly without involving any third parties in the process
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| DrLawn wrote: |
I did not know you had to get a software tweak when you had a new battery fitted if you have a VW type motor. |
Neither did I, and I have two VW-type motors, both of which I've replaced batteries on at least once in our 14 and 10 years ownership thereof.
Without any issues, I should say, and certainly without involving any third parties in the process |
If you just put a battery of parity in to replace, it won't really know or make any tangible difference to it 
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@PrinceJohn, don’t worry. Your car is almost certainly going to be fine. I’ve driven to the alps many times in winter and leave my diesel car parked at the side of the road in temperatures down to -20. I’ve dug it out from what just looked a pile of snow on more than one occasion. I’ve needed an ice axe to clear the ice formed by re freezing roadside slush. I’ve had 5cm of ice in the rear footwell where the old Passat leaked water on the drive down. But never had a problem starting.
Apart from packing chains and a snow shovel the only extra precaution I take is to fill the screen wash with -30 fluid and have an ice scrapper.
The trouble is, all us very experienced drivers love to regale the world with the times when something went wrong. I could mention the times we broke down, had punctures etc on other occasions but won’t.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We do learn a lot here don't we?
Modern cars are fantastic really ... heated seats ... batteries that last.
I just can't find the hole to put the starting handle into.
Come to think of it.. I can't find the handle.
I remember one year having to stop near Ulm on the way down because of the bad weather...
There were a few of us in two cars .. I think I had a Sierra with summer tyres.
The other was an old 6v Beatle, we had to push both of them to start on the icy street.
Those were the days. 
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| johnE wrote: |
@PrinceJohn, don’t worry. Your car is almost certainly going to be fine. I’ve driven to the alps many times in winter and leave my diesel car parked at the side of the road in temperatures down to -20. I’ve dug it out from what just looked a pile of snow on more than one occasion. I’ve needed an ice axe to clear the ice formed by re freezing roadside slush. I’ve had 5cm of ice in the rear footwell where the old Passat leaked water on the drive down. But never had a problem starting.
Apart from packing chains and a snow shovel the only extra precaution I take is to fill the screen wash with -30 fluid and have an ice scrapper.
The trouble is, all us very experienced drivers love to regale the world with the times when something went wrong. I could mention the times we broke down, had punctures etc on other occasions but won’t. |
Regale? No, rather than say "I was fine all those times so you will be fine" we would rather give tips (such as don't buy fuel from cheap petrol stations) so other snowheads here can greatly reduce the chances of getting stuck/stranded during their ski holiday.
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FAQ
