 Poster: A snowHead
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
Edited away, as I'd only read the first page. Doh!
Edited back in as having read the next two pages still no-one seems to have said: Tax.
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it was mentioned 5 times by 4 authors on the first page.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, when I said 'read' I didn't think you'd take it literally.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
And perhaps the single most important feature of the place, all year round, was the view. And having a terrace to sit out with a glass of something and enjoy it. |
Couldn't agree more. Merely think about the view from our place makes me relax. There's something about being on the side of a hill or mountain with the landscape opening out infront of me both up, out and down which is really good for my brain. Mr P and Spud the dog agree..summer or winter there's lots to look at!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| So factor in the tax (income, not fonciere or habitation, you've mentioned them). there will be a tax liability to the French and/or UK govs for the income you generate (net of allowable expenses). So you need a bit more surplus income to cover that. |
It seems pretty clear that this thing is going to make a loss, so no need to worry about paying any tax on it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| luigi wrote: |
| Comptp wrote: |
| I'm selling a second home because whilst its great in terms of yield/return its not really adding value to my life. So this is a family/skiing together esc idea. |
Why not use the returns/yields on this existing property (assuming UK) to rent/hotel stay somewhere in the Alps when you would like to go, that would add value to your life! 
Or reinvest the capital into stocks and use the dividends to fund a nice rental for your weeks away. You will still have all the travelling, food, skipass, etc costs if you own your own place. Maybe you can make a saving on these by being able to visit different destinations with cheaper flights and other holiday costs.
No hassles with bureaucracy in a foreign language, maintenance in absence, management of weekly rentals and you get to visit anywhere in the Alps (or any other mountain chain) rather than be stuck to holidaying in one place because you have this 'investment' with exposure to the vagaries of climate change and political change in a foreign jurisdiction.
No, it's not as glamorous at a dinner party as dropping into conversation about 'our place in the Alps', but when you're shovelling 2 metres of snow off the driveway to get in the place or trying to converse with a Swiss plumber about a boiler fault or filling in reams of French tax forms to account for rental income, some of that shine might come off!!  |
Well put. I am in similar position to OP, was considering getting a place, not so sure now..
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Me and a mate bought 18 months ago (great timing...) between us in Morzine and so far no regrets at all. It was never a financial decision - we've rented it one week in that time to a good mate, and next winter have about 11 days to another good friend (which might just about pay the taxe fonciere). I guess without those rentals it'd cost us c€4k a year, so €2k each (there's no debt - that's taxes and bills) but for that we get maybe 100-120 nights' nice accommodation for us and our families. My mate and I both have non-skiing spouses and 2 skiing adult kids each - we can fit both us and our kids in if we all go together, but that's pretty rare.
We did originally have 2 or 3 other mates interested in buying together but I'm so glad they all got cold feet - with just us we don't have to run it like a glorified timeshare - my kids have each had it for them and their mates (one a last minute thing when uni ski trip cancelled - another benefit!) but mainly we show up when we feel like it.
The benefit to us is no hassle ski/bike trips - all our gear is there, summer and winter, we know we can leave work on a Thursday with just a laptop bag and be opening a beer by about 11pm. It's not a complete new build but a full renovation by a local builder who lives across the road so if anything needs looking at he does it, plus there's a big community of trades resident in the area who have English-speaking people on the team.
PdS is a big and varied area with loads to do summer and winter, with Grand Massif, St Gervais, Chamonix and Verbier all close enough for a day trip (free days in all those places on the season pass). And speaking of season pass - my €499 pass last year got me 41 days' skiing - so a tad over a tenner a day.
But as a financial investment (especially if you need to borrow and rent to make it work)? Not something I'd be doing!
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@BigFoodBear I wouldn't be encouraged or discouraged by anything anyone says here, because the metrics governing the decision vary so much from person to person and people's experiences vary.
'Why not use the returns/yields on this existing property' assumes that all and every UK property investment will be profitable, but that's not 100% guaranteed.
'reinvest the capital into stocks' assumes that you buy the right ones low and sell them high or that they have massive dividends - not a strategy that's viable at the moment, surely?
'be stuck to holidaying in one place' in our case, we've done the globetrotting thing, and now we're retired, like having our Alpine property as a base for exploring and excursions all 'round the Alpine and sub-Alpine region.
'... maintenance in absence, management of weekly rentals ...' we have no problems with this: it's all done by our management agency.
But of course, what works for us may well not work for everyone, which is why it's important to work out the numbers for each of the main options available to you, and then you have a clearer picture. Although the risk element is always hard to quantify (would anyone taking out a big mortgage in 2018 have thought it likely that a global pandemic would put them on furlough or see them lose an otherwise secure job?). Actually, I think the feedback here is pretty balanced - no one is claiming that buying an Alpine property is right for everyone but conversely, I don't think it's reasonable to claim that any other alternative is guaranteed to be better, either.
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Thank you Andy and LaForet, really useful perspectives. I too am keen on Morzine, have spent fantastic winters and summers there. Borrowing not required but would like to be able to at least cover taxes and bills via some selective letting. Also curious about north Italy due to us having family there, but the property seems to be surprisingly expensive/unavailable and lacks the 'well trodden path' sense of familiarity.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
...being able to visit different destinations with cheaper flights and other holiday costs.
...rather than be stuck to holidaying in one place...
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Different strokes for different folks!
40 years ago, I couldn't fathom getting "stuck to holiday in one place"! There're so many fascinating places to sample on my holidays...
20 years later, I wish I could LIVE some place for a few years. To really see all the place got to offer, different things I could do there over just a short holiday visit. So I did. Move to live some place else that I once holidayed.
I could now see the point of a holiday place to go back over and over. Basically a second home base without having to move like I did 20 years ago!
Not only people are different. The same person can have different preference and desire in different stage of their life.
When one want a holiday home and can afford it. Do it.
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I think the notion that one is "tied to one place" if they buy is specious. You're not. Sure, its reasonable to think that: a place you'd buy is in a place you'd want to go often, and with that investment, ya gotta use it, right? That's the truth, but not the whole truth. When you want to go somewhere else, you will. If you are concerned that you won't be able to afford to go anywhere else, its time to check your numbers to see if you should be doing this in the first place. Renting it out can span that gap. Our place has never, ever "kept us from going somewhere else". The other thing it has never done is evoke regret. I've been consistent here: if you want to do it and can afford to, go for it. Then love its familiarity and convenience, and head elsewhere to keep things fresh.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This thread title makes me smile whenever I see it. I recall meeting a local friend who enquired how we were getting on with our "ski lodge". I had to tell her that it was a small apartment in a block. But no doubt some Snowheads have "lodges".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This is a fantastic thread! Like most snowheads, I've dreamt of a place in the mountains since I first visited. I love hiking and work from home now so would be hoping to spend a lot more than 6 weeks there. For me, it would probably be Austria and just wondered if anyone had any Austrian advice or even any ex-pat online communities I could join to try and bring myself a step closer to making it a reality  (Not sure it matters, but I'm Irish so it would be an intra-EU thing).
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| JulieL wrote: |
| This is a fantastic thread! Like most snowheads, I've dreamt of a place in the mountains since I first visited. I love hiking and work from home now so would be hoping to spend a lot more than 6 weeks there. For me, it would probably be Austria and just wondered if anyone had any Austrian advice or even any ex-pat online communities I could join to try and bring myself a step closer to making it a reality (Not sure it matters, but I'm Irish so it would be an intra-EU thing). |
Austria can be difficult to buy due to various rules. For non EU the biggest one is that you can only buy a designated 2nd home. These are few & far between + bring a premium due to supply & demand.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Gored, she says she's EU. Do keep up
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gored wrote: |
Austria can be difficult to buy due to various rules. For non EU the biggest one is that you can only buy a designated 2nd home. |
^ What else might someone consider buying?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Red Leon, he means a designated second home...not all homes can be sold as second homes in Austria. There are strict rules on dwellings, some can only be sold as main homes, some can be second homes but can't be used as holiday rentals, some...not many...can be holiday rentals, some have to be rentals for locals' main homes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Red Leon wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
Austria can be difficult to buy due to various rules. For non EU the biggest one is that you can only buy a designated 2nd home. |
^ What else might someone consider buying? |
The property has to be classified as a 2nd home by the municipality. You dont get to choose!There are limits on the number that can be classed as a 2nd home.
Do keep up 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| JulieL wrote: |
| This is a fantastic thread! Like most snowheads, I've dreamt of a place in the mountains since I first visited. I love hiking and work from home now so would be hoping to spend a lot more than 6 weeks there. For me, it would probably be Austria and just wondered if anyone had any Austrian advice or even any ex-pat online communities I could join to try and bring myself a step closer to making it a reality (Not sure it matters, but I'm Irish so it would be an intra-EU thing). |
Try British in Austria and English Speakers in Salzburg. Both Facebook groups with a wealth of information.
We moved to Austria but before Brexit. It was a lot less complicated, of course. However, with your status, hopefully it wouldn’t be too onerous a task.
My advice? Rent somewhere first, whilst you investigate exactly what and where you’d like to be. Austria is a great country to live in and it’s hard to think of any real negatives…suffice to say, if you’re happy integrating, are friendly and get to know your neighbours etc, I’m sure you’d find it a very positive experience. The only thing I would say is it isn’t the cheapest place in the world to live….but you pay for what you get, like anywhere.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thank you so much everyone for the replies.
@Cacciatore thank you for the tips on the groups. I've joined those and they are just the type of thing I'm after. Also good point about renting first! Really appreciate it
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FAQ
